Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > Off the Court Lounge

Off the Court Lounge Basketball fans talk about everything EXCEPT basketball here

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-12-2013, 05:45 PM   #5851
KevinNYC
RunThroughTheShots
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,212
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatDeraj
George Zimmerman needs to be found not guilty, not only because of the complete lack of evidence that he acted in a way that was not self defense, but also because this is a huge precedent towards Americans and their right to defend themselves.

That's absolute bullshit. This will be a precedent to nothing and standards will not change.

Everything else boils down to do you believe Zimmerman? Thus, it's specific to this case.

Last edited by KevinNYC : 07-12-2013 at 05:49 PM.
KevinNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 05:54 PM   #5852
KNOW1EDGE
AKA MUGGSY
 
KNOW1EDGE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,530
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsyde82
I hope you get my drift. There's a reason, rooted in the founding of this country, for due process. .

I feel you. I am admittedly very biased when it comes to this case, although I try not to be.

And I believe you should literally be "innocent until proven guilty"

because almost every time it is the opposite, whether they want to admit it or not. If im innocent until proven guilty why was I arrested and put in jail? lol

Our judicial system has its flaws, I think they try and make it black and white, when there is always a gray area. take common sense into consideration, just cuz there is a lack of evidence in this case, doesn't mean GZ is innocent and should walk, take into consideration common sense. A grown man followed and killed a kid who was doing nothing. Who knows who threw the first punch? I don't.
KNOW1EDGE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 05:59 PM   #5853
dude77
NBA lottery pick
 
dude77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5,762
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

I Don't Like This

lol@auto uncapitalize
dude77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 06:01 PM   #5854
TheGreatDeraj
Near-Life Experience
 
TheGreatDeraj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,201
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
That's absolute bullshit. This will be a precedent to nothing and standards will not change.

Everything else boils down to do you believe Zimmerman? Thus, it's specific to this case.

It boils down to the evidence, and like I showed in my previous post, it shows George, in self defense, shot martin as he was being attacked.

As for the precedent, I would not be surprised if other states around the country look into adding or getting rid of "stand your ground laws"
TheGreatDeraj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 06:02 PM   #5855
KNOW1EDGE
AKA MUGGSY
 
KNOW1EDGE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,530
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by dude77
I Don't Like This

lol@auto uncapitalize

LMAO!!

I discovered that earlier and was like WTF?!

THIS IS AMERICA!!
KNOW1EDGE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 06:02 PM   #5856
MJ23forever
High School Varsity 6th Man
 
MJ23forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 754
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Lack of proof is not proof of the contrary position.

As far as the OJ case, American Law requires that a person be found guilty if the evidence is 'beyond reasonable doubt'. 'Beyond reasonable doubt' is usually established by a presentation of different facts, witness statements, DNA, means, motive, other evidence. The problem with O.J.'s prosecution is that it was based almost entirely on DNA evidence and allegations of past abuses and violence. Few American Judges/Juries would be satisfied with just DNA and gossip/character assassination about the accused. DNA can be planted, and you can find anyone who can represent an accused as a saint or a devil. So O.J. could not be reasonably found guilty.
MJ23forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 06:05 PM   #5857
KNOW1EDGE
AKA MUGGSY
 
KNOW1EDGE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 2,530
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ23forever
Lack of proof is not proof of the contrary position.

As far as the OJ case, American Law requires that a person be found guilty if the evidence is 'beyond reasonable doubt'. 'Beyond reasonable doubt' is usually established by a presentation of different facts, witness statements, DNA, means, motive, other evidence. The problem with O.J.'s prosecution is that it was based almost entirely on DNA evidence and allegations of past abuses and violence. Few American Judges/Juries would be satisfied with just DNA and gossip/character assassination about the accused. DNA can be planted, and you can find anyone who can represent an accused as a saint or a devil. So O.J. could not be reasonably found guilty.

That's the exact point im trying to make. That is flawed, and doesn't make any sense. Everyone KNEW OJ was guilty, but because our system is flawed, he got off. Same thing that happened with Casey Anthony, same thing that may happen with George Zimmerman.

My point is that is unacceptable, and flawed.
KNOW1EDGE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 06:10 PM   #5858
dude77
NBA lottery pick
 
dude77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5,762
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

so the jury wants a list of the evidence .. some are saying this could be good for the prosecution OR it could mean that the they're trying to convince a couple holdouts to acquit


Quote:
Evidence list should be a blank piece of paper.

dude77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 06:11 PM   #5859
nightprowler10
Bring Back Bogans!
 
nightprowler10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Madhouse on Madison
Posts: 4,065
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

At least we know there won't be any riots
nightprowler10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 06:11 PM   #5860
bsyde82
Decent playground baller
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 367
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by KNOW1EDGE
I feel you. I am admittedly very biased when it comes to this case, although I try not to be.

And I believe you should literally be "innocent until proven guilty"

because almost every time it is the opposite, whether they want to admit it or not. If im innocent until proven guilty why was I arrested and put in jail? lol

Our judicial system has its flaws, I think they try and make it black and white, when there is always a gray area. take common sense into consideration, just cuz there is a lack of evidence in this case, doesn't mean GZ is innocent and should walk, take into consideration common sense. A grown man followed and killed a kid who was doing nothing. Who knows who threw the first punch? I don't.

What I don't like about our criminal justice system is the administration of it at times. The laws and the system are only as good as how faithfully they are carried out. Lawyers on both sides can play games. Judges can be unfair, etc etc. That said, it'll always be imperfect so long as humans are imperfect. It's supposed to be free from prejudice, but everyone knows you can't just leave all your prejudices behind once you enter the courthouse. Not as a juror, judge, bailiff, observer, whatever. Race will always be a factor.

I'll put my cards on the table. I'm biased just like everyone else. Not that I have sympathy for GZ, but I see too many kids like TM causing trouble for no apparent reason. It's just a fact. (I'm in the Bay Area). So for me, I didn't have initial sympathy for TM. The age didn't move me at all. In fact, I know people his age are more than capable of the most vile crimes. So that's what colored my mentality.

But I also went to law school, and while I don't practice criminal law, I can appreciate the legal aspects of this case, and why all the stuff I just said about my biases doesn't matter.

Race and other prejudices don't necessarily decide the case. The defense lawyer could be a KKK member, and have racist feelings toward TM and all his family and friends. But if he puts on a good LEGAL case and wins, I don't think there's a problem with that.

Jurors on the other hand - you can never know. I don't see a way around that. Better to have 6-12 jurors of questionable neutrality than one judge of questionable neutrality.

I'll admit man, a lot of times I want to play dictator and just throw cats I think are deserving in jail. No trial, no jury. It's how I generally feel towards admitted terrorists. If I HAD to carve out an exception for any kind of due process, it'd be them.
bsyde82 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 06:14 PM   #5861
MJ23forever
High School Varsity 6th Man
 
MJ23forever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 754
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by KNOW1EDGE
That's the exact point im trying to make. That is flawed, and doesn't make any sense. Everyone KNEW OJ was guilty, but because our system is flawed, he got off. Same thing that happened with Casey Anthony, same thing that may happen with George Zimmerman.

My point is that is unacceptable, and flawed.

Well people accused of breaking the law are tried in a court of law, not a court of public opinions and jurors have to reach verdicts based on facts, not emotions or feelings. And in the cases of Anthony and Simpson, the jurors didn't have moral certainty that they were guilty in regards to the law and it's better for a guilty person to walk, than to put a innocent person behind bars.
MJ23forever is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 06:16 PM   #5862
dude77
NBA lottery pick
 
dude77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5,762
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
OíMara wants a copy of the list to make sure the state didnít slip in a copy of GZís membership in the KKK

dude77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 06:17 PM   #5863
dude77
NBA lottery pick
 
dude77's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5,762
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by KNOW1EDGE


THIS IS AMERICA!!

how the lol
dude77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 06:17 PM   #5864
KevinNYC
RunThroughTheShots
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,212
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatDeraj
It boils down to the evidence, and like I showed in my previous post, it shows George, in self defense, shot martin as he was being attacked.

As for the precedent, I would not be surprised if other states around the country look into adding or getting rid of "stand your ground laws"

Stand your ground is a terrible law and state should investigate it. There was never a stand your ground hearing in this case.

Precedent usually implies legal precedent and I don't see anything about the murder 2 or manslaughter law being changed by this case.

There's no evidence that Zimmerman was attacked. He didn't even take the stand to state that. It just that the state can't prove he wasn't.
KevinNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2013, 06:22 PM   #5865
daily
I rattle in 5-footers
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 2,301
Default Re: Trayvon Martin Case

Quote:
Originally Posted by KNOW1EDGE
That's the exact point im trying to make. That is flawed, and doesn't make any sense. Everyone KNEW OJ was guilty, but because our system is flawed, he got off. Same thing that happened with Casey Anthony, same thing that may happen with George Zimmerman.

My point is that is unacceptable, and flawed.
No system will be perfect.

I'd rather a system that errors on the side of letting a guilty person go free over a system that sends innocent people to prison.

I don't know about you but I've certainly read enough about innocents spending years incarcerated and having their lives ruined.
daily is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:24 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy