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Old 08-16-2012, 03:35 PM   #2236
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Trout should win, his defense separates him from Miggy. Miggy is still the best hitter in the AL though.
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Old 08-16-2012, 03:53 PM   #2237
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Is Trout's "historic" season really only due to his age??


I mean while his impact has been great, his numbers are not the MVP numbers people are used to seeing. But he's the new kid on the block, very young, and his team is in the hunt so he will get it probably by default. Cabrera's numbers are better but his team has been an underachiever.




................**homer alert** AJ Pierzynski for MVP. Just kidding.
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Old 08-16-2012, 04:28 PM   #2238
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsfan1357
Though he should be mentioned as a top candidate, defense is really what is going to separate Miggy and Trout.
And Cano is more valuable than Miggy too. At least up to this point. Position and quality of defense matter.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:02 PM   #2239
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
And Cano is more valuable than Miggy too. At least up to this point. Position and quality of defense matter.
True but 2nd isnt any more valuable than third. Miggys ability to play third and not completely embarrass himself has made him more valuable this year.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:04 PM   #2240
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ballinhun8
Is Trout's "historic" season really only due to his age??


I mean while his impact has been great, his numbers are not the MVP numbers people are used to seeing. But he's the new kid on the block, very young, and his team is in the hunt so he will get it probably by default. Cabrera's numbers are better but his team has been an underachiever.




................**homer alert** AJ Pierzynski for MVP. Just kidding.
Let's see, gg defense in center, 340/400/600 slash line, on pace for 30 homers and 60 steals even though he missed a month, going to lead the league in runs and have 85/90 rbis out of the lead off spot. Nope nothing special about that season if he was older
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:09 PM   #2241
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by ballinhun8
Is Trout's "historic" season really only due to his age??


I mean while his impact has been great, his numbers are not the MVP numbers people are used to seeing. But he's the new kid on the block, very young, and his team is in the hunt so he will get it probably by default. Cabrera's numbers are better but his team has been an underachiever.




................**homer alert** AJ Pierzynski for MVP. Just kidding.

No, he's having a historic season regardless.

These are his accomplishments if the season ended today:

WAR MLB leader
Stolen Bases MLB leader
Batting title
wRC+ MLB leader
wOBA he is second in MLB

And he plays gold glove caliber defense.

I don't believe many players in the history of the game can claim they did all of those things in one season. Maybe only 3-5 players ever can claim it, if that.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:13 PM   #2242
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

To put trouts season in perspective, if he finishes at the pace he's on, he's already as good as Griffey jr at his best.

Last edited by raiderfan19 : 08-16-2012 at 06:15 PM.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:28 PM   #2243
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
True but 2nd isnt any more valuable than third. Miggys ability to play third and not completely embarrass himself has made him more valuable this year.

I'd say the middle of your defense is more valuable. At the very least, the 2nd baseman and 3rd baseman should be valued the same on defense.

Taking that into account, Cano is a much better fielder at 2nd than Miggy is at 3rd. Miggy has a better bat though. I'd favor Miggy just because his bat is so valuable.

Quote:
Trout should win, his defense separates him from Miggy. Miggy is still the best hitter in the AL though.

Miggy might be the best hitter but Trout is the best offensive player.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:31 PM   #2244
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
First of all, Felix could lose velocity and still be a true ace. What don't you understand about that? His pitches all have great movement, which is much more important than a couple MPH.

Bolded part is just brutal. There is absolutely no reason why Felix shouldn't be mentioned alongside Kershaw & Verlander. There's literally NO argument to be made why Felix shouldn't be in that group.

I don't understand what you're not getting. I said, right now, it doesn't matter, he still has enough velocity for it not to matter. But if he continues to lose velocity, then it will matter. The effectiveness of his stuff will go down. And we're not talking about a couple of MPH. We're talking about throwing from 98mph to 92-93. At this rate, by age 30, he'll be throwing 88-89, THAT's when it's going to matter (if it happens of course).

And as I said, there's not a huge difference between Kershaw, Verlander and Felix but consistency. Felix had an ERA of 3.45 last year. I don't mind when people bunch them together, because on any given day, any of those pitchers can beat the other...
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:54 PM   #2245
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
I'd say the middle of your defense is more valuable. At the very least, the 2nd baseman and 3rd baseman should be valued the same on defense.

Taking that into account, Cano is a much better fielder at 2nd than Miggy is at 3rd. Miggy has a better bat though. I'd favor Miggy just because his bat is so valuable.



Miggy might be the best hitter but Trout is the best offensive player.
I completely agree about cano being more valuable defensively. I was just saying its not because of position.
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Old 08-16-2012, 06:59 PM   #2246
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by brwnman
I don't understand what you're not getting. I said, right now, it doesn't matter, he still has enough velocity for it not to matter. But if he continues to lose velocity, then it will matter. The effectiveness of his stuff will go down. And we're not talking about a couple of MPH. We're talking about throwing from 98mph to 92-93. At this rate, by age 30, he'll be throwing 88-89, THAT's when it's going to matter (if it happens of course).

And as I said, there's not a huge difference between Kershaw, Verlander and Felix but consistency. Felix had an ERA of 3.45 last year. I don't mind when people bunch them together, because on any given day, any of those pitchers can beat the other...


He wasn't throwing 98 all the time. That's just not factual. His first full year in the league he averaged 94.5 MPH on his fastball, now he's at 92.5ish...basically he has "lost" 2 MPH from his first full year. Big deal. I put lost in quotes because I've seen Felix crank it up to 96 this year, even some 97's...he's still got it in the tank.

Consistency? You want to talk about consistency? Felix in the last 4 years:

Basically is tied for the lead in ERA at 2.70 (Kershaw is 2.69)
1st in innings pitched
3rd in strikeouts

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Old 08-16-2012, 07:51 PM   #2247
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
If the Pirates crash and finish under .500 I'm done following baseball forever.
I definitely think they will finish over .500, but I don't think they are going to make the playoffs this year.

A .500 or better finish will still mean a lot for me, and I still think they will get better each year.
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Old 08-16-2012, 07:57 PM   #2248
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Even if they don't finish the year out well, they still have a great future. They have two of the top pitching prospects anywhere in their system, Marte is a young guy to build around Cutch....and they will have two first round draft picks this year, #10 overall (they got this for compensation of not signing their pick from last year, Mark Appell) and whatever they get this year, probably in the 20 range.
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Old 08-16-2012, 08:09 PM   #2249
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Even if they don't finish the year out well, they still have a great future. They have two of the top pitching prospects anywhere in their system, Marte is a young guy to build around Cutch....and they will have two first round draft picks this year, #10 overall (they got this for compensation of not signing their pick from last year, Mark Appell) and whatever they get this year, probably in the 20 range.
They actually get the 9th overall pick for Appel. But yeah, they definitely have a wonderful future. I expect Gerrit Cole to be in the rotation at some point next year. Taillon has been shaky this year, but he still has a very bright future.

Gregory Polanco has had a breakout season with a .328/.393/.520 15 HR's, 81 RBI's and 39 SB's line with wonderful defense and he's a legit 5 tool player and has turned himself into a top 100 prospect as well. The Bucs definitely have a great future.

Alen Hanson has also been a revelation and was ranked as the 40th best prospect in baseball by Baseball America's midseason top 50 at SS.

Last edited by irondarts : 08-16-2012 at 08:14 PM.
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Old 08-16-2012, 09:08 PM   #2250
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by irondarts
I definitely think they will finish over .500, but I don't think they are going to make the playoffs this year.

A .500 or better finish will still mean a lot for me, and I still think they will get better each year.

Ending the streak is really all I care about. Playoffs would obviously mean a lot but Ive just had my eye on 82 wins all year.
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