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Old 09-23-2012, 04:41 AM   #2821
Sarcastic
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

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Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
- As a Jays fan, I'm sorry for George Bell winning the MVP. That robbery is probably what will keep Tram out of the HOF and it sucks. This is why I think voters should take these things seriously. A player's legacy could be on the line. I was only 4 so I didn't know what the hell was going on in the world at that time but looking back at the #'s of that season, it's mind boggling how that MVP vote went down.

- I agree that producing in high-leverage situations is important. It's not necessarily a skill or a predictive tool but if a player does it in a year, good for him. But looking at some of the RISP, RISP w/ 2 outs, bases loaded and those kinds of situations, it doesn't say much for either guy. For the ones where they had enough at-bats (no point in looking at Miggy's crappy results over a mere 9 abs with the bases loaded), Trout and Cabrera's #'s are right in line with their season's #'s. They're great hitters overall and great hitters in the "clutch" given a big enough sample.

- Every month of the season counts. I don't buy into the arbitrary endpoint arguments to discredit certain players. Maybe if Trout had that extra month he would've had more time to bounce back after he made adjustments and put up big #'s. Who knows?

George Bell was an absolute beast in 87. Hitting 47 home runs during the 80s was viewed much differently from nowadays. He absolutely deserved that MVP.
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Old 09-23-2012, 05:41 AM   #2822
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

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Originally Posted by Sarcastic
RBIs are not just dependent on position in the lineup. Saying stuff like that is a complete discredit to some of the great RBI producers of all time.

Example - Lou Gherig led the 1927 Yankees in RBI with 175 DESPITE the fact that he came up to bat 60 times that year with bases empty after Babe Ruth cleared them.
And he also happened to have two of the three guys preceding him in the order with .414 and .486 obps. You are making the other case.

As for clutch, for what its worth, miggy has a negative clutch factor per fangraphs
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Old 09-23-2012, 08:59 AM   #2823
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

The Reds clinched their 2nd division title in 3 years, this coming off the heels of 9 straight losing seasons, so it's a hell of a feeling to have a winning team to pull for.

Mat Latos was straight up AWESOME yesterday and has had a great year. He has a bulldog mentality, and I feel comfortable with him taking the ball in October. That trade has worked out brilliantly for us.
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Old 09-23-2012, 01:16 PM   #2824
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I don't care much for the defensive component of WAR. It undermines Cabrera's value this season. He hasn't embarrassed himself at 3b which is something Trumbo, a much younger player, wasn't able to accomplish. Detroit was able to keep his bat in a bad lineup all year while trying other solutions at DH (Delmon Young sucks defensively). They don't have the personnel to slide Perralta to 3b. It isn't a good idea to give Santiago 500 ab. The way that 2012 roster was built, Cabrera is definitely not hurting them.

It's close. If I had a vote, I'd give it to Cabrera. Deuce made a good point, but I believe he took the wrong side of that argument. I can't penalize Trout for starting his pro season a month later than Miggy. Though, I would favor Cabrera's numbers playing in 20 more games. IMO, his bat over those 20 games is more valuable than the defense of an elite CF.
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Old 09-23-2012, 01:59 PM   #2825
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by intrinsic
I don't care much for the defensive component of WAR. It undermines Cabrera's value this season. He hasn't embarrassed himself at 3b which is something Trumbo, a much younger player, wasn't able to accomplish. Detroit was able to keep his bat in a bad lineup all year while trying other solutions at DH (Delmon Young sucks defensively). They don't have the personnel to slide Perralta to 3b. It isn't a good idea to give Santiago 500 ab. The way that 2012 roster was built, Cabrera is definitely not hurting them.

It's close. If I had a vote, I'd give it to Cabrera. Deuce made a good point, but I believe he took the wrong side of that argument. I can't penalize Trout for starting his pro season a month later than Miggy. Though, I would favor Cabrera's numbers playing in 20 more games. IMO, his bat over those 20 games is more valuable than the defense of an elite CF.

I believe I read an article that said Miggy's defensive component of WAR actually increase this year from previous years because of the position change. It gave him something like +1 in his overall WAR.

In Marlins news: Ozzie said some things that really pissed Loria off. Namely saying that an owner has to look himself in the mirror if he goes through so many managers year in and year out.
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:14 PM   #2826
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

How did Chapman look last night? ANyone know> He pitched the 9th, 1 walk, 0 K. More concerned with his velocity.
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:24 PM   #2827
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsfan1357
I believe I read an article that said Miggy's defensive component of WAR actually increase this year from previous years because of the position change. It gave him something like +1 in his overall WAR.

In Marlins news: Ozzie said some things that really pissed Loria off. Namely saying that an owner has to look himself in the mirror if he goes through so many managers year in and year out.

That's true. He gets a boost from playing the position. However, UZR and the other defensive metrics don't love Cabrera this year. Glancing over his numbers before this year at 3b, and the last 4 years at 1b, 2012 doesn't fall in line. I don't care much for the idea of using one year's data to determine defensive value wrapped up in a number that's supposed to be a snapshot of 2012 performance.
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:29 PM   #2828
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Meticode
How did Chapman look last night? ANyone know> He pitched the 9th, 1 walk, 0 K. More concerned with his velocity.
It was pretty obvious that he was holding back. Highest I saw him hit was 99, but stood consistent mid to high 90s.
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Old 09-23-2012, 02:45 PM   #2829
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

The other thing about value is that Cabrera leads the al in gidps. That matters. He's made 54 more outs in 60 more pas(as of 2 days ago.)
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:09 PM   #2830
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsfan1357
It was pretty obvious that he was holding back. Highest I saw him hit was 99, but stood consistent mid to high 90s.
Hmmm, not good. Before he got the tired arm he was averaging 101 on the gun they said, then when he got the dead arm he was averaging 99.2. At times his fastball was dipping down to 95 to 96.
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Old 09-23-2012, 03:55 PM   #2831
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
The other thing about value is that Cabrera leads the al in gidps. That matters. He's made 54 more outs in 60 more pas(as of 2 days ago.)

Even though I agree, his gidp numbers factor in here. That's not exactly fair when people are ignoring his RBI totals while crediting him with 2 outs for every gidp.
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Old 09-23-2012, 04:20 PM   #2832
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by intrinsic
Even though I agree, his gidp numbers factor in here. That's not exactly fair when people are ignoring his RBI totals while crediting him with 2 outs for every gidp.
Oh I agree it's context dependent but Cameron had a pretty good argument for why it's trout on fangraphs the other day. Cabrera is a slightly better RBI guy(drives in 31% of runners on vs28 for trout) but he's also much more likely to gidp and less likely to score once on a base(which is also team dependent)
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Old 09-23-2012, 06:51 PM   #2833
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Burnett was terrific today and the Pirates avoided getting swept by the fvcking Astros.
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Old 09-23-2012, 07:07 PM   #2834
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Braves take 2 of 3 from the Phillies. Your welcome St. Louis and other teams in a fight for the 2nd WC spot.

We're going to finish with 90-92 wins, probably finish ahead of the 2nd WC team by 5 or so games, and still have our playoff lives come down to one damn game. Yes, I'm bitter.
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Old 09-23-2012, 10:41 PM   #2835
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Watching the Reds game on EPSN. So nice to see Graet American ballpark and Cincy.
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