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Old 10-12-2012, 11:01 PM   #3331
DeuceWallaces
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
They have the same wRC+ which is pretty much the gold standard in determining overall value as an offensive player.

The difference between them is the defensive side of the ball, which is why Trout has such a huge lead in WAR and deserving of the MVP over Cabrera.

You're crazy if you think they have equal offensive value. Look at Trout's monthly offensive numbers. He's living off two crazy months where no one was used to him; period.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:05 PM   #3332
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

I can't speak on what will happen next year, just what has happened. Under that premise they're both sporting the same wRC+, the true measure of evaluating offensive value.

You argue his numbers went down after the league saw him more, I could argue he's like any other hitter who goes through ups and downs.

I think it's clear Miggy is better in the batters box, but Trout makes up that moderate difference with his base running.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:13 PM   #3333
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
I can't speak on what will happen next year, just what has happened. Under that premise they're both sporting the same wRC+, the true measure of evaluating offensive value.

You argue his numbers went down after the league saw him more, I could argue he's like any other hitter who goes through ups and downs.

I think it's clear Miggy is better in the batters box, but Trout makes up that moderate difference with his base running.

It's not me arguing some point. Just look at his numbers. They are facts. He's a 260 hitter the past three months. He's living off two amazing months where he was new to pitchers. This isn't a hard concept to grasp. This isn't about oscillation, it's about decline.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:20 PM   #3334
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

I guess we'll find out if it was a decline or a slump when next year comes around.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:21 PM   #3335
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
I guess we'll find out if it was a decline or a slump when next year comes around.

A slump would indicate a recovery. He had none over the course of 3 months.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:29 PM   #3336
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Bryce Harper went though what seemed to be a 3 month severe slump, then he started hitting well again near the end of the year. He started off hot, got severely cold for a long time, than heated up.

It happens.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:32 PM   #3337
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carbine
Bryce Harper went though what seemed to be a 3 month severe slump, then he started hitting well again near the end of the year. He started off hot, got severely cold for a long time, than heated up.

It happens.

That's great for Bryce but Trout never picked it up so what's your point?
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:33 PM   #3338
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

I'm saying it's likely it was a slump and that Trout is neither as bad as the three moths you're talking about, or as good as his amazing stretch. Somewhere in between.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:33 PM   #3339
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Trout had 3 insanely good months and 2 merely "good" months. Then in a tiny sample in at the end of Sept and October he started hitting incredibly well again. Who is to say that wasn't going to continue if the season went another 2 months? But why are we working with such arbitrary end points anyways?

Also, If Trout's "slump" is a very good .257/.380/.455 line (September) then it just tells you how incredibly good he was this year. Best player in the entire league by far this season.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:36 PM   #3340
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Trout is clearly better anyone who truly knows baseball knows that. Miggy will win MVP and it's well deserved, amazing season. Trout could win the next 5.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:36 PM   #3341
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Trout had 3 insanely good months and 2 good months. Then in a tiny sample in at the end of Sept and October he started hitting incredibly well again. How is to say that wasn't going to continue if the season went another 2 months? But why are we working with such arbitrary end points anyways?

Also, If Trout's "slump" is a very good .257/.380/.455 line (September) then it just tells you how incredibly good he was this year. Best player in the entire league by far this season.

I think Buster Posey might have a legit argument for being super, super close to Trout in terms of value.

He was virtually Trouts equal on offense and I feel like Posey's positional value and defensive ability are not truly reflective in his WAR, which was still a quite impressive 8.
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Old 10-12-2012, 11:50 PM   #3342
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Trout had 3 insanely good months and 2 merely "good" months. Then in a tiny sample in at the end of Sept and October he started hitting incredibly well again. Who is to say that wasn't going to continue if the season went another 2 months? But why are we working with such arbitrary end points anyways?

Also, If Trout's "slump" is a very good .257/.380/.455 line (September) then it just tells you how incredibly good he was this year. Best player in the entire league by far this season.

Regressing as a rookie after everyone has seen you, I'll just use Tiger examples i.e. Galarraga-Shelton-Boesch, is different than a slump.

It's possible, and likely, that Trout is just a really good overall player who hits 270.

The fact you guys want to fight this in the face of a ton of history showing rookies taking a precipitous drop following one go-through the majors is hilarious. Trout is awesome, but he's not a 320 ba 400 obp offensive player. He hit 250 in September so I'm not sure what up turn you're talking about.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:00 AM   #3343
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qwyjibo
Trout had 3 insanely good months and 2 merely "good" months. Then in a tiny sample in at the end of Sept and October he started hitting incredibly well again. Who is to say that wasn't going to continue if the season went another 2 months? But why are we working with such arbitrary end points anyways?

Also, If Trout's "slump" is a very good .257/.380/.455 line (September) then it just tells you how incredibly good he was this year. Best player in the entire league by far this season.


Trout had 1 insane month (July) when his slash line was 392/455/804. Every other month was pretty much 300/400/500, with the exception of June when he hit 372. If he hits 3xx/4xx/5xx for the rest of his career, he will obviously be great, but he won't be the insane player he is being made out to be. He's still young too, so he can obviously get better as well.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:06 AM   #3344
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Trout had 1 insane month (July) when his slash line was 392/455/804. Every other month was pretty much 300/400/500, with the exception of June when he hit 372. If he hits 3xx/4xx/5xx for the rest of his career, he will obviously be great, but he won't be the insane player he is being made out to be. He's still young too, so he can obviously get better as well.
That kind of offense from a CF is a HOF-caliber. "Insane" to me.
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Old 10-13-2012, 12:10 AM   #3345
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Default Re: MLB Thread 2012

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcastic
Trout had 1 insane month (July) when his slash line was 392/455/804. Every other month was pretty much 300/400/500, with the exception of June when he hit 372. If he hits 3xx/4xx/5xx for the rest of his career, he will obviously be great, but he won't be the insane player he is being made out to be. He's still young too, so he can obviously get better as well.

Except every other month was not 300/400/500
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