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Old 04-19-2012, 07:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: Steve Blake?????

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Originally Posted by bladefd
It's not like Phil Jackson was much different in that manner in every season he was here. Surprised it is an issue now

Just making a point..


Mike Brown in his cavs days has played rookies all the time....Phile Jackson i understand....but 1 of the things i was happy about Mike Brown was he develops the Rookies & gives them playing time....surprised to see that he hasnt given them any chances while they were performing
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:08 PM   #17
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Default Re: Steve Blake?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers_Kobe_Fan
Mike Brown in his cavs days has played rookies all the time....Phile Jackson i understand....but 1 of the things i was happy about Mike Brown was he develops the Rookies & gives them playing time....surprised to see that he hasnt given them any chances while they were performing

Yeah, I thought he'd develop our young guys and give them a chance......I would wonder if Jimmy Buss had something to do with it.....if I had any trust in Mike Brown. Dude's thinking is just weird........Ebanks is only good enough to start.......but cannot get 1 minute in months off the bench Talk about a low BB I.Q.......that says a lot!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:41 PM   #18
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Default Re: Steve Blake?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
Yeah, I thought he'd develop our young guys and give them a chance......I would wonder if Jimmy Buss had something to do with it.....if I had any trust in Mike Brown. Dude's thinking is just weird........Ebanks is only good enough to start.......but cannot get 1 minute in months off the bench Talk about a low BB I.Q.......that says a lot!!!!!!!!!!

Mike said last night, that it's just that Ebanks is just caught in the numbers game, "he's the odd man out". The way I see it, most teams need some kind of consistency with their playing time.
The concept of starting certain players and not playing extensive minutes is nothing new.
Bulls coach started Keith Bogans for almost every game last year and yet barely saw action after he was pulled out.
I remember the same thing with Daly starting Rick Mahorn and yet, Rick didn't really play major minutes as he elected to play Rodman and Salley more.
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Old 04-19-2012, 10:52 PM   #19
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Default Re: Steve Blake?????

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Originally Posted by DKLaker
Steve Blake was supposed to be the answer at PG, he had been a very good shooter for years but ever since he came to the Lakers his numbers have taken a huge drop across the board, most alarmingly his shooting percentages have fallen off the map and are well below his career average.
Before the season most guys thought he would bounce back and blamed his failure on the Triangle. I said I saw constant fear in his eyes and that he wouldn't play well with the Lakers because he's the type of guy who plays his best on bad, small market teams....LA is too big and too bright for him.....too much pressure. (Fear.....I'm a coach and know the look when I see it).
If somehow this guy could pull a sudden "Metta" reversal it would really help the team.

Opinions guys????? (I promise not to rant further on this )
My personal theory is that most players need to establish some kind of shooting rhythm to get on track.
I remember shooters like George McCloud, Tracy Murray, Mitch Richmond, Lindsay Hunter, Jr Rider heck even guys like Rick Fox (who was a pretty good offensive player in Boston) etc etc not really flourishing when didn't get enought shots.
With KObe and Bynum taking even more shots this season, plus Pau and other players being aggressive, there's just not a lot of attempts to take to get warmed up.
Also take note that when certain players actually did pretty good after Shaq left and before Pau came.
I believe Chucky Atkins' most productive year was when he joined the Lakers as he took more attempts/game.
Heck even the journey man Smush Parker had the best chance to succeed at LA, before and after that, he was a nobody.
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Old 04-19-2012, 11:04 PM   #20
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Default Re: Steve Blake?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers_Kobe_Fan
its all on mike brown honestly...freaking every team has a rookie/2nd player doing good....Mike Brown had no balls to develop goudelock/ebanks/hill

loook at chandler persons-nyk/shumpert-knicks/bradley-celtics/leonard-spurs/morris-suns

you need to develop young talent...and he aint done sh1t...this morning i read he is already set on rotations for playoffs...how dumb is this

He has the worst bench in the league and he is already set? & that includes giving blake 20mins a night? only mike potato head brown

Im sorry but I just hate this concept of blaming ONE person for one's success or lack thereoff. I like Steve Blake but heck, I just can't blame just Brown for his failures, surely Steve himself has some culpability.
If you are going to pull ALL THE BLAME on Mike Brown on the performance of each of his players, then you have to give him FULL CREDIT for the success of some of his players. Andrew Bynum is playing his BEST season, should Brown get the credit?
About not developing young talent, I don't disagree. But good coaches like PHil, Larry Brown, Daly, Jerry Sloan etc, don't really like to play and develop young players either.
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:26 AM   #21
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Default Re: Steve Blake?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaraw08
Im sorry but I just hate this concept of blaming ONE person for one's success or lack thereoff. I like Steve Blake but heck, I just can't blame just Brown for his failures, surely Steve himself has some culpability.
If you are going to pull ALL THE BLAME on Mike Brown on the performance of each of his players, then you have to give him FULL CREDIT for the success of some of his players. Andrew Bynum is playing his BEST season, should Brown get the credit?
About not developing young talent, I don't disagree. But good coaches like PHil, Larry Brown, Daly, Jerry Sloan etc, don't really like to play and develop young players either.

try to comprehend what i am saying. I am saying if Blake is playing like sh1t move on.....give players who are performing mins....dont give mins just because he is a vet

do you think ebanks/goudelock would get these many mins when they are so under performing? i dont think so...

so ya...its on coach brown....for giving him tons of mins
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Old 04-20-2012, 12:56 AM   #22
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Default Re: Steve Blake?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaraw08
Im sorry but I just hate this concept of blaming ONE person for one's success or lack thereoff. I like Steve Blake but heck, I just can't blame just Brown for his failures, surely Steve himself has some culpability.
If you are going to pull ALL THE BLAME on Mike Brown on the performance of each of his players, then you have to give him FULL CREDIT for the success of some of his players. Andrew Bynum is playing his BEST season, should Brown get the credit?
About not developing young talent, I don't disagree. But good coaches like PHil, Larry Brown, Daly, Jerry Sloan etc, don't really like to play and develop young players either.

My personal theory is that most players need to establish some kind of shooting rhythm to get on track.
I remember shooters like George McCloud, Tracy Murray, Mitch Richmond, Lindsay Hunter, Jr Rider heck even guys like Rick Fox (who was a pretty good offensive player in Boston) etc

LMAO.....you can't compare Blake to all those past their prime players we picked up Add to that group Glen Rice who was coming off serious elbow surgery and was never the same player.
Blake is a typical small town small time player......not a LA/playoff performer.

As for OLD coaches not developing rookies......that was the NBA of the past....not the future. Not developing young players who you have locked into low paying contracts forces you to pay much higher for a veteran player who may only be equal or less effective as the younger cheaper player. What happens is that your payroll ends up being 1/4th to 1/3rd higher than it should be.....now tack on the penalty for being over the cap and look at the new CBA penalties for being over the cap and you will understand that the old way of doing business is going to go away very soon.

Example;

Barnes at $2 million + Ebanks at $700k = $2.7m X 2 = $5.4 million after cap hit.

Metta at $7 million x 2 = $14 million

Save well over 9 million going with Barnes + Ebanks + min veteran.

Blake at $4million x 2 = $8million

Goudelock + Morris = $900k x 2 = $1.8 million

Save $6 million going with the rookies (of course Sessions starts)

Just those 2 moves save $15 million and the team is just as good.

Of course you have to invest time and coaching into developing the young guys but it pays off in a huge way.

This is what San Antonio does, our payroll is 13 million higher than theirs.....and that's with Tim Duncan's $21 million in the final year of his contract. Duncan if he plays will not make more than $7 to 10 million next season. San Antonio has 14 guys who have gotten more minutes than Ebanks, Goudelock and Morris. That's how you develop players!!!!
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:39 AM   #23
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Default Re: Steve Blake?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers_Kobe_Fan
I am saying if Blake is not performing ...move on use other players on the bench that are producing. You would say but Blake plays good defense while Goudelocks defense is shaky....Thats why i gave you examples of blake getting humiliated by rush and others.....

Mike Brown is scared sh1tless to use rookies over the vets...he has no balls to do so....

you are talking about yesterday? wow 8 full mins of junk??? and you have the nerve to ask why they didnt score 1 point? lol it was worthless time who nobody cared...even if Goudelock would have hit 3-4 3's he wont be getting any mins that matter.....

Against the spurs the lakers were up by 15-18 in SA and Brown still didnt had any balls to play guys like goudelock/ebanks/hill

Mike brown is telling people on why goudelock is not getting any burn...its not like goudelock is scoring 15pts in 15mins...how dumb is that???


The way you are trying to use the argument is to prove that bench warmers dont care about playing time. This is the point of the game where they try to stat pad so they can show what they got.

Also, with 8 minutes left in the game, Golden state was trying to make a run. They cut a huge lead down to 12. If their run had started earlier, they could have made it a nerve wrecker.

So I don't even like the argument that garbage time is the reason they didn't score, because that is the easiest time to score. If they can't score a single point in 8 minutes of garbage time, then how do you expect them to perform in the first serious 40 minutes of the game?

Also, Mike Brown's explanation is actually a very good one, but because laker fans generally tend to ordain a scapegoat for every era, Mike Brown has to take blame on all counts. His explanation for Goudelock was that he scores about 8-10 points, thats it. No passing, no unusual quickness, nothing else. He shoots, he makes it. We have plenty of guys who can do that.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:52 AM   #24
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Default Re: Steve Blake?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker


Name one time that these guys have ever been on the court at the same time.......come on.....let's hear it!!!

You put guys on the court who never played together and what do you expect.....this is coaching 101. Obviously Goudelock had no trouble scoring when he played with guys who are in the regular rotation.......I mean, you are watching the game but not THINKING the game.
Somebody....yeah a chick, asked why teams don't just put all 7 footers on the floor at the same time, who could stop them she said
I explained to her, she paused and I knew what was coming out her mouth next, "Why not put all the little fast guys on the floor at the same time"

So you're telling me that because they've "never played with eachother" that it is impossible to score a single point in 8 full minutes of stop time, full contact basketball? Does that mean when McRoberts missed both of his free throws in that span, it was because he had different players? What about missed wide open jumpers? What about layups? What is your point with that statement? Chemistry is an issue yes, but you can't miss wide open layups and jumpers if you have been sitting all game and you have the easiest part of the game to play.

You know why Goudelock had no problem scoring? He had great players around him to take the pressure off of him. So if he doesn't have great players around him, he can't score. So what does that say about him as a player then? He's not very good is he? Put a very good player with the crappy second unit we have, and he will score because he is a good player. Goudelock is still a prospect, a project, a young rookie, a late second rounder, and people are choosing this guy over a proven veteran who has been in the league for a very long time in steve blake lool.

This has got to be the most absurd debate. Goudelock's season highs dont even exceed Steve Blake's season highs this year. not even close.

This whole debate is an argument of which piece of trash is better. Do we honestly have nothing better to talk about? This team is 40-22 heading into the 3rd place spot in the playoffs, and everyone is talking about goudelock. Are you kidding me? Why aren't we discussing our first round matchup? Why aren't we discussing Kobe's newfound relationship with Jim Buss that he mentioned yesterday?

Why is it always about the guy that is hired to be our scapegoat?

Please, find something interesting. Be positive for once. So much negativity all because we either wanted Adelman, or Chris Paul, or both.
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Old 04-20-2012, 04:55 AM   #25
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Default Re: Steve Blake?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
Yeah, I thought he'd develop our young guys and give them a chance......I would wonder if Jimmy Buss had something to do with it.....if I had any trust in Mike Brown. Dude's thinking is just weird........Ebanks is only good enough to start.......but cannot get 1 minute in months off the bench Talk about a low BB I.Q.......that says a lot!!!!!!!!!!

So you're a coach, how do you suggest we play Ebanks? with 5 players on the court at one time, you have the lakers roster of 11 guys, 240 minutes total. How do you play Ebanks over Barnes and Artest, who have been playing well?
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Old 04-20-2012, 05:01 AM   #26
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Default Re: Steve Blake?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers_Kobe_Fan
try to comprehend what i am saying. I am saying if Blake is playing like sh1t move on.....give players who are performing mins....dont give mins just because he is a vet

do you think ebanks/goudelock would get these many mins when they are so under performing? i dont think so...

so ya...its on coach brown....for giving him tons of mins

Whats funny is while people criticize Blake for shooting 38% this year, they don't criticize Goudelock for shooting 39%.

And by the way, the assist numbers aren't even close. Blake is up by a good 3 assists, which is funny because he only averages 3 assists. I looked up the games where goudelock has played the most minutes. Barely gets over 2 assists in 20 minute games.

What people don't realize is when Blake gets that one made jumper, just one, his confidence is up the rest of the game.
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Old 04-20-2012, 02:08 PM   #27
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Default Re: Steve Blake?????

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Originally Posted by lakerfreak
So you're a coach, how do you suggest we play Ebanks? with 5 players on the court at one time, you have the lakers roster of 11 guys, 240 minutes total. How do you play Ebanks over Barnes and Artest, who have been playing well?

You are so completely blinded and hooked into the status quo, following whatever the management says or does blindly.....even if it is obviously stupid.
It is completely pointless to keep repeating what I have already said....and others have said to you......seriously, you will never get it so what's the point?
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Old 04-20-2012, 07:51 PM   #28
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Default Re: Steve Blake?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers_Kobe_Fan
try to comprehend what i am saying. I am saying if Blake is playing like sh1t move on.....give players who are performing mins....dont give mins just because he is a vet

do you think ebanks/goudelock would get these many mins when they are so under performing? i dont think so...

so ya...its on coach brown....for giving him tons of mins

So you don't like to practice patience eh
World Peace played like crap the first 7 weeks of the season, so just put him in the dog house right? YOu think Lakers would have won 5 of 7 games without Kobe and Peace last week?
Blake playing TONS of minutes? If you call playing 20-25 mins, "tons", then how do you describe Kobe's minutes
Geez, Hey, I like Goudelock too but he is a natural Shooting guard, as in he looks to shoot more than read the defense and dictate tempo and set up teammates on offense. Yes, he is a much better shooter than Blake ( I said it before, that I would rather see him take 5 floaters than see Kobe take 5 constested 20 footers), but there are so many other things to take into consideration on who to play other than shooting the ball. IMO, Blake has better footspeed, better at sending his man to spots where he can get help, better in reading the defense, better in setting up teammates, better entry passer than Goudelock bec he is a NATURAL PG.
The thing is I don't disagree with your point. I also would have preferred that Gouldelock to be given more chances and play atleast 10 mins/game=less weak and tear for Kobe but I believe that the point was mostly about Blake being a disappointment as a PG, I don't think theres a correlation bet Goudelock's lack of minutes/development as a SG.
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:04 PM   #29
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Default Re: Steve Blake?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker

Opinions guys????? (I promise not to rant further on this )
LMAO.....you can't compare Blake to all those past their prime players we picked up Add to that group Glen Rice who was coming off serious elbow surgery and was never the same player.
Blake is a typical small town small time player......not a LA/playoff performer.

As for OLD coaches not developing rookies......that was the NBA of the past....not the future. Not developing young players who you have locked into low paying contracts forces you to pay much higher for a veteran player who may only be equal or less effective as the younger cheaper player. What happens is that your payroll ends up being 1/4th to 1/3rd higher than it should be.....now tack on the penalty for being over the cap and look at the new CBA penalties for being over the cap and you will understand that the old way of doing business is going to go away very soon.

Example;

Barnes at $2 million + Ebanks at $700k = $2.7m X 2 = $5.4 million after cap hit.

Metta at $7 million x 2 = $14 million

Save well over 9 million going with Barnes + Ebanks + min veteran.

Blake at $4million x 2 = $8million

Goudelock + Morris = $900k x 2 = $1.8 million

Save $6 million going with the rookies (of course Sessions starts)

Just those 2 moves save $15 million and the team is just as good.

Of course you have to invest time and coaching into developing the young guys but it pays off in a huge way.

This is what San Antonio does, our payroll is 13 million higher than theirs.....and that's with Tim Duncan's $21 million in the final year of his contract. Duncan if he plays will not make more than $7 to 10 million next season. San Antonio has 14 guys who have gotten more minutes than Ebanks, Goudelock and Morris. That's how you develop players!!!!
What did you say again about not ranting further?
oh well, like what i said, that was my personal theory about YOUR question. Sorry that I didn't please the great Coach DK
BTW, name atleast 4 former lakers that really flourished(shot well) with Kobe playing with dominant big men like Shaq/Bynum+Pau?
Yes, there are coaches that develop young talent but I also think Mike Brown has a difficult situation where in he needs to establish his system with VERY limited time to prepare coupled with the enormous pressure of not losing too many games bec he would be crucified by so many analysts and fans like you if that happens.
Lastly, it's not like Brown NEVER developed young players.
Guys like Delonte West, Daniel Gibson, Anderson Verajao etc develped under him.
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:48 PM   #30
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Default Re: Steve Blake?????

lol.
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