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Old 04-27-2012, 03:48 PM   #61
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

I have been going at it with the jackass nerds on Westeros forum for four years now although I have given up on that forum for the most part. The majority of the members are geeky loser type who don't have the smarts to be good at anything other than worming through fantasy books. But I have to admit those discussions cleared lots of stuff for me so although my personal theories could be conventional shit at least I know I reached them after putting them book under meticulous collective re-reads and analyses.

Jon is most probably the offspring of a Stockholm syndrome relationship between Lyanna and Rhaegar and it will be so unless Martin decides to make everyone look stupid by twisting everything and perplex most readers.
Now is UnJon gonna rise as AA reborn? It is again the most reasonable conclusion to Jon's murder, now the question is if R+L=J is true then is it still sensible to claim Jon is the 3rd dragon head? Since UnJon is essentially a zombie.
I personally do not see much basis regarding Aegon being fake as I put great trust in Tyrion's character judgment. Tyrion actually liked the young Targaryen and had only praise for him so for Aegon is a Targaryen unless proven otherwise.
I will not comment on Dany cause I'm still mad at her
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:50 PM   #62
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

I was hoping you guys were talking about this.
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Old 04-27-2012, 03:52 PM   #63
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
I was hoping you guys were talking about this.
Fixed
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Old 04-27-2012, 04:00 PM   #64
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunksby
I have been going at it with the jackass nerds on Westeros forum for four years now although I have given up on that forum for the most part. The majority of the members are geeky loser type who don't have the smarts to be good at anything other than worming through fantasy books. But I have to admit those discussions cleared lots of stuff for me so although my personal theories could be conventional shit at least I know I reached them after putting them book under meticulous collective re-reads and analyses.

Jon is most probably the offspring of a Stockholm syndrome relationship between Lyanna and Rhaegar and it will be so unless Martin decides to make everyone look stupid by twisting everything and perplex most readers.
Now is UnJon gonna rise as AA reborn? It is again the most reasonable conclusion to Jon's murder, now the question is if R+L=J is true then is it still sensible to claim Jon is the 3rd dragon head? Since UnJon is essentially a zombie.
I personally do not see much basis regarding Aegon being fake as I put great trust in Tyrion's character judgment. Tyrion actually liked the young Targaryen and had only praise for him so for Aegon is a Targaryen unless proven otherwise.
I will not comment on Dany cause I'm still mad at her

I think the paper dragon in Dany's vision and the story about the Inn with the black dragon sign that washes up on shore red with rust are foreshadowing the return of the blackfyres that and the golden company was founded by the Blackfyres and are in full support of and broke their first contract ever to put a Targaryen on the throne

But the Tryrion point is a good one and the Giant turtle that popped up to witness the return of a king.. or however that went.
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Old 04-27-2012, 08:31 PM   #65
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti Hero
Yea, I like Theon or at least his story too. But he does seem to be looking for death a little bit. Maybe he won't so much anymore now that he's away from Ramsay.. but he's in the hands of Stannis and we know how he is about justice. He liked the Davos but that didn't stop him from taking his knuckles. Maybe Theon would find some peace in giving back the Starks one of their own. It is a sad story for Theon, always wanted to be a Stark and an Ironborn but was never either.


I agree. The Theon story is incredibly compelling. While he may not be as intrinsically interesting as Tyrion, his story for me has been the biggest emotional roller coaster.



A few more regular things to discuss:
Where the hell is Benjen? I know when I was first reading the books, and starting putting things together like Jon's lineage, and the fact that Coldhands had to be Benjen, and thinking I was clever. Then I looked it up online, and realized I was maybe the 1 billionth person to arrive at these conclusions, and there were another 10 million people claiming I was an idiot.

Isn't it possible that Benjen (Coldhands or otherwise) be the one who reveals Jon's parentage to us/him. He may know something of consequence about Lyana's releationship. And/or he may have been entrusted with information from Ned. It's at least worth noting that he has always had a special interest in Jon.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:46 PM   #66
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
Can anyone make any kind of case that Jon actually is who he's described as, the offspring of an indescretion between Ned and the Dawnstar chick? In the last book, Sir Barriston paints a much more vivid picture of the two of them than I expected.

Actually, the answer may be coming soon and unexpectedly...many people believe Ashara Dayne is still alive...as Septa Lemore.

Others believe that Jon is Lyannas son, but Ned still did have a bastard with Ashara Dayne.

That bastard is one with silver Dayne like hair, but a black Stark like stripe through it...Gerold Dayne...the Darkstar.

People believe after Ned killed Ashara's brother, Arthur Dayne, and brought the star of the Morning back to Dorne (along with Jon and his bastard Gerold), he left Gerold in Dorne and brought Jon back with him instead so questions would not be asked as to why he had 2 children with him. He hid Jon's identity as his bastard and let his actual bastard stay in Dorne to live as a Dayne instead of a bastard.
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Old 04-27-2012, 09:58 PM   #67
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

I just don't see the R+L=J connection. Like the readers have managed to figure it out 5 years before it ever gets revealed it would be anti climactic. Besides it seems the Targaryean features are strong in the off spring and Jon has neither the purple eyes or gold hair. I think Jon is definitely a Stark but who's is the question. I have a feeling GRRW is going to surprise the readers with twist then again I could be wrong. And if Jon comes back as undead I'm going to

I think that Aegon is a Blackfyre for sure, it only makes sense especially since he's got the Golden Company backing him and the prophet telling Dany to "beware of the mummurers dragon"
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:11 AM   #68
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
I agree. The Theon story is incredibly compelling. While he may not be as intrinsically interesting as Tyrion, his story for me has been the biggest emotional roller coaster.



A few more regular things to discuss:
Where the hell is Benjen? I know when I was first reading the books, and starting putting things together like Jon's lineage, and the fact that Coldhands had to be Benjen, and thinking I was clever. Then I looked it up online, and realized I was maybe the 1 billionth person to arrive at these conclusions, and there were another 10 million people claiming I was an idiot.

Isn't it possible that Benjen (Coldhands or otherwise) be the one who reveals Jon's parentage to us/him. He may know something of consequence about Lyana's releationship. And/or he may have been entrusted with information from Ned. It's at least worth noting that he has always had a special interest in Jon.
i dont think coldhands/benjen has the answer for jon. i believe only ned and howland reed knew the truth. benjen would have been in he north and never witnessed what going on in the riverlands
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Old 04-28-2012, 05:50 AM   #69
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Another thought I forgot to add regarding Aegon is that even if he is a fraud I prefer him as a ruler to Dany, she has proved time and time again that she is not fit for ruling over anybody.
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Old 04-28-2012, 11:28 AM   #70
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

For anyone who ever wondered what was going down in Oldtown and who Pate or the Sphynx may be...

http://www.towerofthehand.com/blog/2...nt_/index.html

I reccomend reading this. Its very interesting and has a good amount of solid info backing up some good theories.
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Old 04-28-2012, 01:43 PM   #71
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by dunksby
Another thought I forgot to add regarding Aegon is that even if he is a fraud I prefer him as a ruler to Dany, she has proved time and time again that she is not fit for ruling over anybody.

She can rule over and under me any day.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:20 PM   #72
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorpesaurous
A few more regular things to discuss:
Where the hell is Benjen? I know when I was first reading the books, and starting putting things together like Jon's lineage, and the fact that Coldhands had to be Benjen, and thinking I was clever. Then I looked it up online, and realized I was maybe the 1 billionth person to arrive at these conclusions, and there were another 10 million people claiming I was an idiot.

Isn't it possible that Benjen (Coldhands or otherwise) be the one who reveals Jon's parentage to us/him. He may know something of consequence about Lyana's releationship. And/or he may have been entrusted with information from Ned. It's at least worth noting that he has always had a special interest in Jon.

I've heard a few different theories, when he went ranging he might have seen what they were up against and then found out that Bran and Rickon were dead, so he went back to Winterfell to make sure there was always a Stark in Winterfell.. but that seems highly unlikely.. And might even be two different scenarios mashed up in my head.

I don't think he is Coldhands either, I remember the Children of the Forest saying that Coldhands died a long time ago. Benjen would have only been gone a short time, it's possible though and seems to be a really popular theory. I think Coldhands might be The Nights King.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bano114
Actually, the answer may be coming soon and unexpectedly...many people believe Ashara Dayne is still alive...as Septa Lemore.

Others believe that Jon is Lyannas son, but Ned still did have a bastard with Ashara Dayne.

That bastard is one with silver Dayne like hair, but a black Stark like stripe through it...Gerold Dayne...the Darkstar.

People believe after Ned killed Ashara's brother, Arthur Dayne, and brought the star of the Morning back to Dorne (along with Jon and his bastard Gerold), he left Gerold in Dorne and brought Jon back with him instead so questions would not be asked as to why he had 2 children with him. He hid Jon's identity as his bastard and let his actual bastard stay in Dorne to live as a Dayne instead of a bastard.

I read this yesterday and it fascinated me to no end. I never once thought that if Jon Snow was R+L=J that Ned would have an actual bastard out there. Having read that someone else's write up on this, wow.. it's pretty good. Ned would have never had to lie when he said he had a bastard. And he never told Jon he was his son, just had his blood.

Calling Gerold Dayne the most dangerous man in Dorne makes some more sense now, maybe he knows everything too.

I had heard the Septa Lemore is Ashara before, but with all this it actually makes it interesting to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by longtime lurker
I just don't see the R+L=J connection. Like the readers have managed to figure it out 5 years before it ever gets revealed it would be anti climactic. Besides it seems the Targaryean features are strong in the off spring and Jon has neither the purple eyes or gold hair. I think Jon is definitely a Stark but who's is the question. I have a feeling GRRW is going to surprise the readers with twist then again I could be wrong. And if Jon comes back as undead I'm going to

I think that Aegon is a Blackfyre for sure, it only makes sense especially since he's got the Golden Company backing him and the prophet telling Dany to "beware of the mummurers dragon"

Another R+L=J comes from the House of visions, when Dany sees the blue flower growing on The Wall. And the same blue flowers are described in Lyanna's room at the Tower of Joy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rezznor
i dont think coldhands/benjen has the answer for jon. i believe only ned and howland reed knew the truth. benjen would have been in he north and never witnessed what going on in the riverlands

I think you're right, Howland Reed has got to make some kind of appearance if he hasn't already. Or I think maybe now that Bran is the Old Gods he could see what happened through the weirtrees and explain to someone else or reflect on it and we see it as readers... who knows..

Quote:
Originally Posted by rufuspaul
She can rule over and under me any day.
Samsies

She made a lot of bad decisions but I think making them helps her grow into a strong capable leader. She won't go against what it is she aims to do again to appease people. She learned a good hard lesson from the Harpies. It'll be interesting to see if she goes back to Westeros or not. If she does, where does she land and who does she side with? Is it with the Ironborn? or does she take Victorians Ironborn clan and make their own run? Or join up with Dorne, someone else, etc.. I think she's about to become very interesting.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:22 PM   #73
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bano114
For anyone who ever wondered what was going down in Oldtown and who Pate or the Sphynx may be...

http://www.towerofthehand.com/blog/2...nt_/index.html

I reccomend reading this. Its very interesting and has a good amount of solid info backing up some good theories.


That was really good stuff.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:52 PM   #74
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bano114
For anyone who ever wondered what was going down in Oldtown and who Pate or the Sphynx may be...

http://www.towerofthehand.com/blog/2...nt_/index.html

I reccomend reading this. Its very interesting and has a good amount of solid info backing up some good theories.

Nice. It's weird how much stuff I missed reading through. I suppose these people read it all more than once. I don't even remember reading about Sarella or alleras the first time though . I didn't even realize that whitebeard was Barristan. I let a kid read my books and when whitebeard shows up, he talking to me later on at work and he tells me some old white guy with a white beard shows up.. is it Barristan.. I was shocked that he got it right away. That was one of the few things that I didn't spoil for myself with looking shit up online. I was shocked at the big reveal.
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Old 04-28-2012, 03:57 PM   #75
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Default Re: A Song of Ice and Fire Novels

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anti Hero
Nice. It's weird how much stuff I missed reading through. I suppose these people read it all more than once. I don't even remember reading about Sarella or alleras the first time though . I didn't even realize that whitebeard was Barristan. I let a kid read my books and when whitebeard shows up, he talking to me later on at work and he tells me some old white guy with a white beard shows up.. is it Barristan.. I was shocked that he got it right away. That was one of the few things that I didn't spoil for myself with looking shit up online. I was shocked at the big reveal.
Do you skim a lot when reading?
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