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Old 04-30-2012, 02:38 PM   #46
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Default Re: Winners & Losers of NFL Draft.

How is Cousins going to net you more draft picks playing behind RGIII who is your starting QB the next decade at the least? I'd love to hear this. Injury? Benching? Wash doesnt even have a rep of developing QBs. Silly pick, should have gone with a position other than QB.
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Old 04-30-2012, 02:50 PM   #47
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Default Re: Winners & Losers of NFL Draft.

Yeah, that's the ESPN guys spin, you can trade him for more picks. Why would anyone pay more than they did? He'll never play, so he'll never show upside. And he won't be a good backup because you want your backup to be able to produce in case your rookie needs a week or so to regroup. It was perplexing. RG3 is their QB for the next 10 years, build your team based on him.

Hell, i thought Denver wasting a pick on a rookie QB this year made no sense. Get that QB when Peyton is gone. Denver drafted like their window with Peyton is very long.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:02 PM   #48
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Default Re: Winners & Losers of NFL Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
How is Cousins going to net you more draft picks playing behind RGIII who is your starting QB the next decade at the least? I'd love to hear this. Injury? Benching? Wash doesnt even have a rep of developing QBs. Silly pick, should have gone with a position other than QB.


Kolb comes to mind.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:06 PM   #49
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Default Re: Winners & Losers of NFL Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOBB
How is Cousins going to net you more draft picks playing behind RGIII who is your starting QB the next decade at the least? I'd love to hear this. Injury? Benching? Wash doesnt even have a rep of developing QBs. Silly pick, should have gone with a position other than QB.

Well I mean Matt Flynn got a chance to 'shine' behind arguably the best QB playing today. I, along with many, loved what they saw in the preseason. He's been on people's 'hmm possibility' lists for a couple years.

Just look what happened with Matt Schaub and Mike Vick. Schaub was a good prospect that was slotted as a backup and got ATL some picks in return. Cousins was a pretty good QB in college and many guys like Dilfer and co think he could be a possible starter some day. He gets to learn and grow with an elite guy that he knows and I'm pretty certain they will have a great working relationship.

Just because WSH doesn't have a rep of developing QB's well recently (i.e. the last 20 odd years) doesn't mean Mike Shanahan doesn't know what to look for that he can work with. He's taken guys like Jake Plummer and Brian Griese and made them look capable in their own right. Cutler put up great results at times when he was young. Sure it didn't work for Beck but he's just shook in the pocket with a not so strong arm.

Grossman and McNabb are who they are, set in their ways/ routine. They aren't really relevant to developing a young or inexperienced guy.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:17 PM   #50
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Default Re: Winners & Losers of NFL Draft.

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Originally Posted by ROCSteady
Well I mean Matt Flynn got a chance to 'shine' behind arguably the best QB playing today. I, along with many, loved what they saw in the preseason. He's been on people's 'hmm possibility' lists for a couple years.

Just look what happened with Matt Schaub and Mike Vick. Schaub was a good prospect that was slotted as a backup and got ATL some picks in return. Cousins was a pretty good QB in college and many guys like Dilfer and co think he could be a possible starter some day. He gets to learn and grow with an elite guy that he knows and I'm pretty certain they will have a great working relationship.

Just because WSH doesn't have a rep of developing QB's well recently (i.e. the last 20 odd years) doesn't mean Mike Shanahan doesn't know what to look for that he can work with. He's taken guys like Jake Plummer and Brian Griese and made them look capable in their own right. Cutler put up great results at times when he was young. Sure it didn't work for Beck but he's just shook in the pocket with a not so strong arm.

Grossman and McNabb are who they are, set in their ways/ routine. They aren't really relevant to developing a young or inexperienced guy.

How will people know that your backup gets better?
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:23 PM   #51
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Default Re: Winners & Losers of NFL Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skywalker
Kolb comes to mind.

Kolb was drafted and groomed to be the man who replaced McNabb.. He played some good football as a backup to McNabb, and would still be the starter here if Mike Vick had gone somewhere else or stayed out of football.

I never thought Kolb would be a star...but alot of people did. He showed a few flashes and people bought into it..

Why would the Redskins aim to get a player they dont intend to keep? They have already paid a heavy price in picks to get RGIII and then they go and waste another one? There was alot of value in this draft and the Redskins could have helped RG III and themselves by getting someone who can get out there and play..
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:25 PM   #52
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Default Re: Winners & Losers of NFL Draft.

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Originally Posted by niko
Yeah, that's the ESPN guys spin, you can trade him for more picks. Why would anyone pay more than they did? He'll never play, so he'll never show upside. And he won't be a good backup because you want your backup to be able to produce in case your rookie needs a week or so to regroup. It was perplexing. RG3 is their QB for the next 10 years, build your team based on him.

Hell, i thought Denver wasting a pick on a rookie QB this year made no sense. Get that QB when Peyton is gone. Denver drafted like their window with Peyton is very long.

Umm actually the ESPN spin has been trying to create controversy where there isn't one. Skip Clueless trying to implement the racial shit which doesn't matter within the team.

Dilfer talking about how Griffin will be feeling like we aren't all in for him by taking another QB. It's all bullshit. One thing I've always respected bout the Cowboys is that they really value the backup QB position. You do that because never know if your starter breaks a finger or two on a helmet, has to sit a couple games for health, etc.

Cousins will show teams he has talent whether he gets in the regular season or not. The QB position holds more value than any other so grooming a young QB to be a quality backup for a couple years then looking to unload him for picks ala Schaub is a good future plan to have imo.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:30 PM   #53
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Default Re: Winners & Losers of NFL Draft.

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Originally Posted by Rasheed1
Kolb was drafted and groomed to be the man who replaced McNabb.. He played some good football as a backup to McNabb, and would still be the starter here if Mike Vick had gone somewhere else or stayed out of football.

I never thought Kolb would be a star...but alot of people did. He showed a few flashes and people bought into it..

Why would the Redskins aim to get a player they dont intend to keep? They have already paid a heavy price in picks to get RGIII and then they go and waste another one? There was alot of value in this draft and the Redskins could have helped RG III and themselves by getting someone who can get out there and play..


They prolly will at least keep him for the next 2-3 years. Maybe they decide to keep him as a long term backup? Who knows, none of us know.

The possibility to flip a prospect QB for more picks is still a good option to have. Like I said, Cousins is an asset in more ways than one. He was the third QB on the Skins board so the fact that he fell to the 4th just made it imperative to give us some options in the future.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:30 PM   #54
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Default Re: Winners & Losers of NFL Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCSteady
Umm actually the ESPN spin has been trying to create controversy where there isn't one. Skip Clueless trying to implement the racial shit which doesn't matter within the team.

Dilfer talking about how Griffin will be feeling like we aren't all in for him by taking another QB. It's all bullshit. One thing I've always respected bout the Cowboys is that they really value the backup QB position. You do that because never know if your starter breaks a finger or two on a helmet, has to sit a couple games for health, etc.

Cousins will show teams he has talent whether he gets in the regular season or not. The QB position holds more value than any other so grooming a young QB to be a quality backup for a couple years then looking to unload him for picks ala Schaub is a good future plan to have imo.
There's absolutely no guarantee you'll get anything of value for him, much less greater value. Kolb came in and excelled and the Eagles flipped him. That's expecting a lot. The much more likely scenario is he doesn't pan out, and you either have a non experienced backup to a non experienced starter, or you just bring in someone else and he becomes an expendable piece.

I don't think the Redskins doubt RGIII at all or anything, i actually think they agree with you, and i think it's just a stupid gamble.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:35 PM   #55
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Default Re: Winners & Losers of NFL Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
How will people know that your backup gets better?

There are a number of ways. For one, there is the preseason. He could get the opportunity to start games in preseason in a year or whatever to give his game more credibility.

God forbid Griffin get injured but he could get his shot for a few games if RG has to sit a few weeks.

Griffin could engineer enough big leads to have Cousins come in and clean up games that are in hand.


There's literally multiple ways teams can scout his skills
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:37 PM   #56
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Default Re: Winners & Losers of NFL Draft.

I think the Cowboys also paid a heavy price to get their guy.. but at least Claiborne has the potential to be so good that nobody remembers what he cost them.. No 2nd round pick hurt Dallas a little bit there, but it looks to be worth it.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:38 PM   #57
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Default Re: Winners & Losers of NFL Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by niko
There's absolutely no guarantee you'll get anything of value for him, much less greater value. Kolb came in and excelled and the Eagles flipped him. That's expecting a lot. The much more likely scenario is he doesn't pan out, and you either have a non experienced backup to a non experienced starter, or you just bring in someone else and he becomes an expendable piece.

I don't think the Redskins doubt RGIII at all or anything, i actually think they agree with you, and i think it's just a stupid gamble.

There's no guarantee for much in this world. That's a weak mentality to have when you are proactively are building a young team. You trust your talent/skills/experience. That's why guys like Shanahan has won SB's and we type on a message board bout speculation.

As for the bolded, agree to disagree. This particular FOURTH ROUNDER gives us insurance and multiple routes to improve the team heading forward

Last edited by ROCSteady : 04-30-2012 at 03:42 PM.
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:40 PM   #58
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Default Re: Winners & Losers of NFL Draft.

after 3rd round is pretty much "meh" terratory for me

that starts to become players that won't even make team rosters

90% of a draft grade should come from rounds 1-3 IMO

like 60% just the first round...that is where your draft is really decided




yeah you can find gems in late rounds sure, but it's pretty rare...look at any probowl roster, over half were drafted in the 1st round...then many rounds 2-3...maybe a few came from rounds 4+
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:43 PM   #59
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Default Re: Winners & Losers of NFL Draft.

in terms of grading a draft (IMO)

50% 1st round
25% 2nd round
15% 3rd round
10% the rest


something like that, that's how I would have it anyway
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Old 04-30-2012, 03:43 PM   #60
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Default Re: Winners & Losers of NFL Draft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ROCSteady
There's no guarantee for much in this world. That's a weak mentality to have when you are proactively are building a young team. You trust your experience/skills/experience. That's why guys like Shanahan has won SB's and we type on a message board bout speculation.

As for the bolded, agree to disagree. This particular FOURTH ROUNDER gives us insurance and multiple routes to improve the team heading forward
My young team had a young QB we drafted in a similar situation and we didn't waste on one our picks on a young guy who had no chance to ever start. To spend a bunch of picks on RG3 to me i agreed with 100%. Then you spent another pick on a QB. Makes no sense. The reason you bring in a vet is because you want someone who does not need reps but can come in and play. Your second QB will get almost no work with the practice team, why he develops with no vet to draw from and limited practice is beyond me.

Wasted pick.
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