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Old 05-11-2012, 08:08 PM   #61
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

I totally agree, the Knicks are definitely built in the win now mold.
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Old 05-11-2012, 08:11 PM   #62
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Wtf was I thinking trading Amare for Varejao overreaction...
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:16 PM   #63
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

we need a pg and i don't mean jeremy lin(who we will probably resign because he's cash cow)
i want nash but if we can't get him i wouldn't mind having andre miller
a real floor general would really improve our team
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Old 06-09-2012, 01:32 AM   #64
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Honestly this is the only way the Knicks can improve.
1. Find a smart GM
2. Find a real coach
3. Dump one of the 18 million dollar players
4. Get some draft picks.
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Old 06-09-2012, 02:25 AM   #65
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
Honestly this is the only way the Knicks can improve.
1. Find a smart GM
2. Find a real coach
3. Dump one of the 18 million dollar players
4. Get some draft picks.
"Dump one of the 18 million dollar players"?

Why go back now?

We're going to ride this out for the 2 1/2-3 years we've got them to try to win a Championship, and then we can have that full blown rebuilding effort you've mentioned before.

Never been this close to contending in a long time so we gotta try to make it work a little longer until we know our window is closed.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:43 AM   #66
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
Honestly this is the only way the Knicks can improve.
1. Find a smart GM
2. Find a real coach
3. Dump one of the 18 million dollar players
4. Get some draft picks.

1. Grunwald is a good GM.

2. Who was available better than what we have currently?

Don't say Phil either, because our roster doesn't fit his system at all, and basing what it was rumored he wanted from Orlando, the Knicks would never give it to him.

3. Agree to an extent, but would you believe dumping let's say either of our two highest players and we are still close to being over the cap?

We have a 75 mil payroll, and the cap is 58...removing Melo in a straight dump gives us a wopping 3 mil in cap space.

4. True, but who needs draft picks if your a contending team?

There all good thoughts true enough, but not realistic.

If your even suggesting blowing it up, the only player that can recoup anything of true value is Melo, and that is not happening.
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Old 06-09-2012, 11:00 AM   #67
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Title does say 2012/2013 AND BEYOND.... How can the Knicks improve....

The Knicks are contending for what? Playoffs? Not Championships!!!

Why does everyone freakn poo poo draft picks.... Draft picks are what you need to fill out a roster... You can not buy a complete roster.

I never implied to blow it up because of the first line I wrote...



Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
1. Grunwald is a good GM.

2. Who was available better than what we have currently?

Don't say Phil either, because our roster doesn't fit his system at all, and basing what it was rumored he wanted from Orlando, the Knicks would never give it to him.

3. Agree to an extent, but would you believe dumping let's say either of our two highest players and we are still close to being over the cap?

We have a 75 mil payroll, and the cap is 58...removing Melo in a straight dump gives us a wopping 3 mil in cap space.

4. True, but who needs draft picks if your a contending team?

There all good thoughts true enough, but not realistic.

If your even suggesting blowing it up, the only player that can recoup anything of true value is Melo, and that is not happening.
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Old 06-09-2012, 02:40 PM   #68
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
Title does say 2012/2013 AND BEYOND.... How can the Knicks improve....

The Knicks are contending for what? Playoffs? Not Championships!!!

Why does everyone freakn poo poo draft picks.... Draft picks are what you need to fill out a roster... You can not buy a complete roster.

I never implied to blow it up because of the first line I wrote...

The Knicks have a draft pick every other year.

If they are contending, that pick won't make much of a difference anyway.

This team will be a contender based on what our acquisitions do on the court, not what the 26 pick in the draft does, but either way we'll have a pick every other year, and this year a second rounder.

Believe me getting a first in the other drafts won't be that hard, as most teams don't want to tie up that guaranteed money in this first year of the CBA.

The only problem this year is we paid the Wizards to take Turiaf off our hands otherwise we'd have 3 mil to buy a pick.

now my question is why are you so obsessed with draft picks?
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Old 06-09-2012, 07:59 PM   #69
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

I agree with Rameek's entire list except 3. That's still up in the air for me. Amare has some proving to do next year but if he's himself, I wouldn't mind keeping him. We do need to retain our draft picks from now on though. With our cap situation, the draft is whereyou can build your team. We can't sign guys outright so the draft is the best spot to get quality talent. Otherwise, we have to sign vet min and exception guys.

I'm not sold Grunwald is a good GM. I didn't like the Chandler acquisition. I don't like the way he built our bench. I don't like that we extended Douglas' contract. It's easy to sign guys to Max contracts. Signing JR was easy too. He wanted to be here. I want to see him build our supporting cast. Build our bench with quality players...not one trick pony players.

Ifanyone thinks trading Melo is the solution,they haven't watched basketball lately. The Spurs had the best coached and depest team. They pretty much did everything "the right way" as the "analysts" like to say. They ripped off 20 in a row. End of the day, they lost however because one team had Kevin Durant and the other didn't. Stars win rings. Is Melo LeBron? No but he's one of the few players capable of outplaying him on a consistent basis. Sometimes execution goes out the window and talent has to prevail. You can improve your coachign strategy from game to game. You can't do that with talent. Either you have more talent or you don't. End of the day, the only team who's won without at least one star in the last 20 years was the Detroit Pistons...and that was moreso the Lakers feuding and losing focus.
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Old 06-09-2012, 08:10 PM   #70
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Get rid of James Dolan.
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Old 06-10-2012, 06:53 AM   #71
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

I'm in some disagreement here....

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
I agree with Rameek's entire list except 3. That's still up in the air for me. Amare has some proving to do next year but if he's himself, I wouldn't mind keeping him. We do need to retain our draft picks from now on though. With our cap situation, the draft is whereyou can build your team. We can't sign guys outright so the draft is the best spot to get quality talent. Otherwise, we have to sign vet min and exception guys.
We do have a 1st rounder every other year, but if anyone is harping on the picks, then they must not want Amare and Melo on the team because that's how we lost them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
I'm not sold Grunwald is a good GM. I didn't like the Chandler acquisition. I don't like the way he built our bench. I don't like that we extended Douglas' contract. It's easy to sign guys to Max contracts. Signing JR was easy too. He wanted to be here. I want to see him build our supporting cast. Build our bench with quality players...not one trick pony players.
I didn't like how much it cost to get Tyson, but he was worth every single penny, and I don't think the Knicks even come close to making the playoffs without him.

And it was far from easy, and he isn't a max.

JR chose the most money, the team having it was irrelevant.

It will be hard to fill a bench with quality when you have pretty much your entire salary cap tied into three players.

I totally understand when people say this is not how to build a team, but it's here now, so it's either......make it work, or go back to where the team was for the last 10 years.


Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Ifanyone thinks trading Melo is the solution,they haven't watched basketball lately. The Spurs had the best coached and depest team. They pretty much did everything "the right way" as the "analysts" like to say. They ripped off 20 in a row. End of the day, they lost however because one team had Kevin Durant and the other didn't. Stars win rings. Is Melo LeBron? No but he's one of the few players capable of outplaying him on a consistent basis. Sometimes execution goes out the window and talent has to prevail. You can improve your coachign strategy from game to game. You can't do that with talent. Either you have more talent or you don't. End of the day, the only team who's won without at least one star in the last 20 years was the Detroit Pistons...and that was moreso the Lakers feuding and losing focus.
You're selling OKC quite short if you think it's only because of Durant.

Those guys have a core that's been together for a few, been through the growing pains, and have 4 guys on their team that deserve a big payday.

They are deeper and more talented that the Spurs, plus ridiculously younger.
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Old 06-10-2012, 09:43 AM   #72
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

The thread says from next season and beyond.
Every team uses its draft picks for their bench and development. Its the most reasonable way to fill out a roster. You can not buy every single player through FA its absolutely utterly ridiculous and virtually impossible. The Knicks are doing it the wrong way obviously. This is why I dont believe they are CHAMPIONSHIP contenders but just playoff contenders.

The Knicks will get cap relief I think the following season 2013/2014. I think getting rid of 1 max contract and drafting properly at least the Knicks wont be up against it every year. I never said blow it up I never said trade chandler I agree he was a great addition.

OKC built a team that is quite nice but they will have the tough decisions soon enough.

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Old 06-10-2012, 10:11 AM   #73
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Quote:
We do have a 1st rounder every other year, but if anyone is harping on the picks, then they must not want Amare and Melo on the team because that's how we lost them.
We lost at least one of our picks trying to land LeBron.

Quote:
I didn't like how much it cost to get Tyson, but he was worth every single penny, and I don't think the Knicks even come close to making the playoffs without him.

I disagree. I have no doubt in my mind we could have went just as far with a guy like Samuel Dalembert, especially since we would have more space to sign someone else.Tyson looked "great" because the alternative was Shawne Williams and Jared Jeffries under Antoni. I never said Tyson was a max guy. I said signing max guy is easy. Giving Tyson Chandler more money than everyone else would have was easy too. Same with JR. Like you said, it didn't matter the team.

Quote:
You're selling OKC quite short if you think it's only because of Durant.

Actually I'm doing the exact opposite. The Spurs had an edge in experience and seemingly in execution. That advantage got nullified when you factor in Durant. He was the difference maker. Both teams were incredibly coached but at the end of the day, OKC has Durant and nobody else does.

Quote:
They are deeper and more talented that the Spurs, plus ridiculously younger.
Put it like this, take Durant off that team and plug in Gallo, as people want us to do, and they wouldnt have beat the Spurs. I'm not devaluing their bench depth. I actually like the Spurs bench better than theirs.

Last edited by franchize : 06-10-2012 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 06-10-2012, 05:27 PM   #74
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
We lost at least one of our picks trying to land LeBron.
That's not accurate though, we had enough cap space to sign LeBron when we dumped Z-Bo and Crawford for expirers.

The picks were used to create the space for the second max deal, which was the T-mac trade with Houston......Jordan hill, right to swap 2011 1st, unconditional 2012 pick.

There were zero 1st rounders used to create the space used for LeBron.


Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
I disagree. I have no doubt in my mind we could have went just as far with a guy like Samuel Dalembert, especially since we would have more space to sign someone else.Tyson looked "great" because the alternative was Shawne Williams and Jared Jeffries under Antoni. I never said Tyson was a max guy. I said signing max guy is easy. Giving Tyson Chandler more money than everyone else would have was easy too. Same with JR. Like you said, it didn't matter the team.
But here is the thing....the Knicks were over the cap last summer, so there was no cap space to sign Dalembert.

And I'm sorry fam, Dalembert does not have and definitely did not have the impact of Tyson, or his leadership this season, and Dalembert wasn't starting alot of the games due to having back issues.

One team went from 25th ranked defense to top 10, while the other made zero improvement defensively.

Besides, was only able to sign Tyson due to it being a sign and trade, which Dallas was willing to do, but if they hadn't, we don't get Tyson either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Actually I'm doing the exact opposite. The Spurs had an edge in experience and seemingly in execution. That advantage got nullified when you factor in Durant. He was the difference maker. Both teams were incredibly coached but at the end of the day, OKC has Durant and nobody else does.
But it wasn't just Durant being an x factor, OKC is legit throughout their team, and as far as experience goes, the have former champions on their roster....Fisher has 5, Nazr has one courtesy of the Spurs, Perk has one, even their coach has a ring, and I would like to believe that championship experience is paying off for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Put it like this, take Durant off that team and plug in Gallo, as people want us to do, and they wouldnt have beat the Spurs. I'm not devaluing their bench depth. I actually like the Spurs bench better than theirs.
This part I really cannot address as i haven't seen this on our board at all.

As far as the Spurs bench goes, I actually think their bench is what did them in their final round.

Their depth is actually good but quite inexperienced, with Kawhi, Neal, Blair, Mills and Anderson.
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Old 06-10-2012, 05:46 PM   #75
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

I know people look at the Thunder as the model team to build a team the right way, and trust me, I love them enough to be my second team, but let's get an understanding......

That team sucked terribly the first couple of seasons, enough so that they received three straight top 5 picks in the draft.

Durant in '07 + (Jeff Green for Ray Allen), Westbrook in '08, Harden in '09.

But imagine for a second if Portland doesn't take Greg Oden in 2007 and drafts Durant themselves.

But the point is, they had to be awful and lucky before they could be good, and I mean can't win a game awful, and being thankful for what Portland did.

31, 20, 23 wins awful.


Now the Knicks have been bad as well, but how many top 5 picks have we had since winning the lotto with Ewing?

One and that was the one we gave up in the Eddy Curry trade.

It isn't just simply building through the draft, sometimes you have to get lucky.

Spurs got lucky, Bulls got lucky, Miami got terrible to get Wade.

We haven't been bad enough or lucky enough to get that franchise changer, so unfortunately we have to acquire ours.
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