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Old 06-10-2012, 06:42 PM   #76
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/kni...-knicks-future

Says Novak will likely be back
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Old 06-10-2012, 07:04 PM   #77
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Quote:
The picks were used to create the space for the second max deal, which was the T-mac trade with Houston......Jordan hill, right to swap 2011 1st, unconditional 2012 pick.

There were zero 1st rounders used to create the space used for LeBron.

But the only way we were going to acquire LeBron was if we had another star. C'mon, we all know that was the "master plan".

Quote:
But here is the thing....the Knicks were over the cap last summer, so there was no cap space to sign Dalembert.

So we could sign Tyson but we couldn't sign Dalembert for cheaper? How's that? If we can make a deal with Dallas we can make a deal with Sacramento.

Quote:
And I'm sorry fam, Dalembert does not have and definitely did not have the impact of Tyson, or his leadership this season, and Dalembert wasn't starting alot of the games due to having back issues.

This sounds like a Mike Breen answer. I'm not saying Tyson Chandler was or wasn't a great leader. What I will say is, none of us are in that locker room to truly know. I don't get how a team that had drama all year had great leadership. Is Chandler better than Dalembert? Maybe. Is he 6 million + better? Hell no! Two years ago if you said Tyson Chandler was better than Samuel Dalembert people would say you're crazy. Tyson's DPOY was utter BS. No way he deserved it over Ibaka or LeBron. Furthermore, Chandler was a no show the entire playoffs. Averaged 6 points, 9 rebs and 3 times as many TO's as he did blocks. Tyson Chandler benefited from the same trend Perkins did. Won a ring and then became overrated. (See JJ Barrea & Deshawn Stevenson)

Quote:
But it wasn't just Durant being an x factor, OKC is legit throughout their team, and as far as experience goes, the have former champions on their roster....Fisher has 5, Nazr has one courtesy of the Spurs, Perk has one, even their coach has a ring, and I would like to believe that championship experience is paying off for them.

The Spurs have just as much championship experience WITH EACH OTHER. Plus their coach has championship coaching experience.

Quote:
This part I really cannot address as i haven't seen this on our board at all.

You haven't seen people clamoring for us to build around Gallo? Really?

I do however agree about the perception of the perfect way to build. #1They had to suck really bad for years to get where they are #2 We don't have the luxury of being as bad as they were. We've stunk but we haven't been bad enough to get a top 3 pick, nor can Dolan afford to not have a marketable team on the court. That doesn't fly in NY.
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Old 06-10-2012, 08:36 PM   #78
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
But the only way we were going to acquire LeBron was if we had another star. C'mon, we all know that was the "master plan".
Was it? I don't believe that, and since we're talking after the fact, we know amare wasn't that other star.

The Amare signing was a panic move, just in case the Knicks wound up with nothing, like the Nets ended up doing.

From the reports I recall they even asked LeBron somehow if signing amare killed their "chances".



Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
So we could sign Tyson but we couldn't sign Dalembert for cheaper? How's that? If we can make a deal with Dallas we can make a deal with Sacramento.

Sure we could, but come on, at this point there is no way you can compare Dalembert to Tyson.



Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
This sounds like a Mike Breen answer. I'm not saying Tyson Chandler was or wasn't a great leader. What I will say is, none of us are in that locker room to truly know. I don't get how a team that had drama all year had great leadership. Is Chandler better than Dalembert? Maybe. Is he 6 million + better? Hell no! Two years ago if you said Tyson Chandler was better than Samuel Dalembert people would say you're crazy. Tyson's DPOY was utter BS. No way he deserved it over Ibaka or LeBron. Furthermore, Chandler was a no show the entire playoffs. Averaged 6 points, 9 rebs and 3 times as many TO's as he did blocks. Tyson Chandler benefited from the same trend Perkins did. Won a ring and then became overrated. (See JJ Barrea & Deshawn Stevenson)
I'd definitely take an overrated DPOY. Was Dalembert in the running?

Somehow the Knicks went from a 25th ranked defense to top 10.

the only constant on the floor was Tyson, so I'd rather believe he was the factor.

Ironically Dallas and Boston didn't defend their title runs after letting their centers go.

Dalembert at one point wasn't even starting and barley playing, I can't entertain this part any longer.

Dalembert is the essence of free agent trash.


Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
The Spurs have just as much championship experience WITH EACH OTHER. Plus their coach has championship coaching experience.
Winning is winning. I never challenged the Spurs experience only point out that the Thunder has alot of pieces that has championship experience.



Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
You haven't seen people clamoring for us to build around Gallo? Really?
No, I have not seen this from anyone in seriousness of dialogue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
I do however agree about the perception of the perfect way to build. #1They had to suck really bad for years to get where they are #2 We don't have the luxury of being as bad as they were. We've stunk but we haven't been bad enough to get a top 3 pick, nor can Dolan afford to not have a marketable team on the court. That doesn't fly in NY.
So in essence, it makes pretty much the majority of this thread quite moot, since we really had no luxury to be able to build as those teams did.

We never bad enough or lucky.
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Old 06-10-2012, 09:06 PM   #79
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Dalembert isnt good. Chandler proved to be a game changer. mchale is nuts but Dale started off hot then faded into the sunset.
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Old 06-10-2012, 09:28 PM   #80
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rameek
Dalembert isnt good. Chandler proved to be a game changer. mchale is nuts but Dale started off hot then faded into the sunset.
Also got replace by 38 year old Camby in the starting lineup, and in quite a few 4th quarters Patrick Patterson played and Dally didn't.

I'm willing to bet the Rockets won't be picking up that second year.

One of my cousins, who lives in The Woodlands telling me a joke....

"Have you ever heard of the laziest player on your team calling a players only meeting?"

I was like "Eddy Curry?"
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:04 PM   #81
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Can we talk about what he actually did opposed to what we were constantly told he was doing?

The guy was a good center. Not great as you guys like to make him out to be. He WAS NOT worth every penny. Let's get serious. He avg 11 points and wasn't in double digits rebounding. He's OVERRATED!!!! Typical Knicks acquisition. we got better defensively because we finally got rid of D'Antoni and because in previous years Amare, Shawne Williams and Jared Jeffries were our starting centers. Let's stop conveniently omitting that.

The "essence of trash" you refer to avg 7 and 7 in 11 less minutes. He didn't start every game because he was injured for most of the season.

I love how everyone conveniently overlooks the fact that Chandler was a no show in the playoffs. Guys on this board ripped Melo and he was getting 28 and 8. But let someone say something about Chandler. Chandler couldn't even outplay Joel Anthony decisively.

This is the last time I'm going to rant about this guy but I'm really just irked at our fan base and the way the organization does things. Every year we get this overrated role player, overpay him and get told how to feel about him. then every year I come on here, get ripped for saying the opposite. It's a silly cycle. Remember when "Jared Jeffries could guard all 5 positions" Knickscity? And then what happened, we later found out he can't guard ANY positions lol.
Tyson Chandler is a decent center but he IS NOT worth 13 million dollars and if he is, then Melo and Amare are worth the max and then some.

Dallas lost a bunch of players and weren't that great to begin with. THAT is why they didn't repeat. Boston got older and never replaced Perkins. If you want guys like Perkins and Chandler and Jeffries then so be it. I'd rather spend my money on a quality pg and just get a decent center. It's not like there are many dominant ones Chandler will have to guard anyway. It's also not like Chandler is a prolific shot blocker either.

I'm not trying to hate on the guy. I just find it hypocritical how we can readily spew criticism and hatred on our 2 best players but when it comes to this guy, he's exempt from blame. The guy didn't show up when we needed him most. I'm just annoyed by us wanting to trade guys who are stars but guys like Tyson Chandler, Jeremy Lin and Steve Novak are fixtures on this roster. That's a big problem and just shows that we care more about guys being popular then we do about their talent.

I'm sure I'm going to get the famous "it isn't all about stats line" but stats were recorded for a reason. Some of them have meaning.

Tyson Chandler career averages- 8 pts 8 rebs 1.5 block
Samuel Dalembert career averages- 8 pts 8 rebs 2 blocks

Just saying
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Old 06-10-2012, 11:45 PM   #82
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Can we talk about what he actually did opposed to what we were constantly told he was doing?

The guy was a good center. Not great as you guys like to make him out to be. He WAS NOT worth every penny. Let's get serious. He avg 11 points and wasn't in double digits rebounding. He's OVERRATED!!!! Typical Knicks acquisition. we got better defensively because we finally got rid of D'Antoni and because in previous years Amare, Shawne Williams and Jared Jeffries were our starting centers. Let's stop conveniently omitting that.

The "essence of trash" you refer to avg 7 and 7 in 11 less minutes. He didn't start every game because he was injured for most of the season.

I love how everyone conveniently overlooks the fact that Chandler was a no show in the playoffs. Guys on this board ripped Melo and he was getting 28 and 8. But let someone say something about Chandler. Chandler couldn't even outplay Joel Anthony decisively.

This is the last time I'm going to rant about this guy but I'm really just irked at our fan base and the way the organization does things. Every year we get this overrated role player, overpay him and get told how to feel about him. then every year I come on here, get ripped for saying the opposite. It's a silly cycle. Remember when "Jared Jeffries could guard all 5 positions" Knickscity? And then what happened, we later found out he can't guard ANY positions lol.
Tyson Chandler is a decent center but he IS NOT worth 13 million dollars and if he is, then Melo and Amare are worth the max and then some.

Dallas lost a bunch of players and weren't that great to begin with. THAT is why they didn't repeat. Boston got older and never replaced Perkins. If you want guys like Perkins and Chandler and Jeffries then so be it. I'd rather spend my money on a quality pg and just get a decent center. It's not like there are many dominant ones Chandler will have to guard anyway. It's also not like Chandler is a prolific shot blocker either.

I'm not trying to hate on the guy. I just find it hypocritical how we can readily spew criticism and hatred on our 2 best players but when it comes to this guy, he's exempt from blame. The guy didn't show up when we needed him most. I'm just annoyed by us wanting to trade guys who are stars but guys like Tyson Chandler, Jeremy Lin and Steve Novak are fixtures on this roster. That's a big problem and just shows that we care more about guys being popular then we do about their talent.

I'm sure I'm going to get the famous "it isn't all about stats line" but stats were recorded for a reason. Some of them have meaning.

Tyson Chandler career averages- 8 pts 8 rebs 1.5 block
Samuel Dalembert career averages- 8 pts 8 rebs 2 blocks

Just saying



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Old 06-11-2012, 06:35 AM   #83
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Franchize, you know you're family to me, but I'm actually embarrassed at your post.

If you think Dalembert has the same impact of Chandler, that's your opinion your fully entitled to it and I'll just leave that one alone.

But the facts are Dalembert lost his spot to a 38 year old, and he wasn't playing in alot of the 4th quarters because their coach would rather go small that to play him out there.

And I surely do not see why you're trying to sneak shot at a VET MINIMUM signing.

But for the other points we can't be talking about being hypocritical when we have our two max cats that don't defend on an acceptable level then shit on the player that covered their weak defense.

The guy came into the playoffs with the flu, hadn't practice or even had something to eat from all reports and still played, but interestingly Joel Anthony also gives Amare the business on defense as well, apparently they all gave him enough trouble for him to take himself out of a playoff game by for the second straight year injuring himself by doing dumb shit.

Then actually shows up courtside to watch the team that spanked his ass, and even got into the dumbest argument with a fan on twitter the same night about it.

But enough with that, I'm really confused to what you're trying to convey.

You can't build a proper team when you have two guys making 40 million of a 58 million dollar cap.

Then add in the defensive player of the year, who BTW made the defensive team as well, something our max cats didn't sniff, and our payroll is 53 million with raises.

How are they supposed to get quality depth?

The realization is.....either have role players with marginal skills to fill out the rotation or two of them has to go.

My preference.....Amare and Tyson, as I feel they are both crutches to each other.

One can't defend for shit, and the other has no offensive game, but you won't get anything of value for Amare so you're stuck.

Now while there are some that will say trade Melo, I wouldn't do it, but I can understand where they come from.

I'd trade every single one of them for a Knicks championship, the back of the jersey means zero to me.
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Old 06-11-2012, 10:58 AM   #84
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

I cant argue and wont argue your opinion. If you feel that Chandler isnt better than Dally there isnt anything anyone can say it will go around in circles.

If you dont feel Chandler helped the Knicks this season no one is going to change that.

Considering how the Knicks had 4 defensive minded players in Shump, JR, Jared and Chandler yet he was able to win the DPOY speaks volumes of his impact.

I dont know how much you were able to see Rocket games but Dally only showed effort in the beginning of the season then he just started collecting paychecks. I dont know if you wer refering to Dally being injured all season is not true. He just stunk.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:46 PM   #85
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Neither one of your replies accurate address what I said. I didn't say Chandler didn't contribute and I didn't say Dalembert was better than him. What I said was Chandler isn't 6 million dollars better per year than Dalembert.

Quote:
Considering how the Knicks had 4 defensive minded players in Shump, JR, Jared and Chandler yet he was able to win the DPOY speaks volumes of his impact.

JR played like a quarter of a season for us And since when is he "defensive minded". And I've said all year I thought Shumpert was a better defender than Chandler.

Quote:
And I surely do not see why you're trying to sneak shot at a VET MINIMUM signing.

Because you started repeating that "he can guard all 5 positions" stuff back when he was a MLE signing! Jeffries didn't always get the vet min. Right or wrong? And you want to talk about who the Rockets didn't want to play, they didn't even want Jeffries on their team!

Quote:
But for the other points we can't be talking about being hypocritical when we have our two max cats that don't defend on an acceptable level then shit on the player that covered their weak defense.

We have ONE max player that doesn't defend. Despite the forgone conclusion, when I watch the games, Melo plays defense. Especially since Woodson started coaching.

[quote]The guy came into the playoffs with the flu, hadn't practice or even had something to eat from all reports and still played,[quote]

Really... the flu? Where going there now? The flu? So nevermind the pulled groin and wrist issues Melo played with or the bad back Amare had. But God forbid a guy get the flu. We all know those things are impossibleto play with. "C'mon Son"

Quote:
Joel Anthony also gives Amare the business on defense as well, apparently they all gave him enough trouble for him to take himself out of a playoff game by for the second straight year injuring himself by doing dumb shit.

And I spewed just as much venom to Amare as well. I said he didnt show up. I wasn't as hard on him for the fire extinguisher thing because I've punched things out of frustration, but the bottom line is Amare hasn't brought the intensity we expect outta him in a long time. Please don't act like I don't ask you guys to make room for my foot in his ass as well. I'm as disappointed in STAT as anyone else. I just think if you're going to spread the blame, give it out equally.

As for the DPOY stuff, thats an award. Real talk, I thought LeBron deserved it the last 2 years in a row. Ibaka was a better defender also.

But I agree, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this Chandler situation.

Quote:
How are they supposed to get quality depth?

Scouting! The Spurs have 6 guys making under 2 mill that make significant contributions. Chicago has quality guys for cheap. Golden State, Houston, Miami, Cleveland, Philly all have guys who contribute on a solid level for cheap. We just have to stop being lazy and stop signing names instead of games. Signing Mike Bibby made absolutely no sense. Signing Baron Davis when you knew he was hurt made no sense. Targetting guys like Ray Allen this year and Grant Hill, Kurt Thomas last year makes no sense. Stop signing these has beens with pre-existing injuries and diminished skills. Put your stock in young players. Shit, even the spurs did it and Pop HATES young guys. If Tyson is the leader you guys say he is, then we don't need all these other guys. We don't need these bums for "leadership". Tyson is leader enough.
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Old 06-11-2012, 05:50 PM   #86
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Franchize, I see you're in "rant mode", and I will leave you in your moment.

Oan, when your have 53 of 58 million tied into 3 guys, your gonna have your bench full of Bibby's and Baron's and Jeffries.

Which is why those guys have to be playmakers, defenders and efficient scorers, and even multi positional.

If our best defender is our rookie, that's a damn shame, and all three need to be taken out behind the woodshed.

I fully see why people were against the Melo trade, while I don't share their sentiment and I still fully endorsed the deal.

I hear this discussion at least once a week at work when my officers discuss the Knicks.

"Melo makes twice as much as Gallo, but Melo doesn't average twice as much in any statistical category...not a single one."

"Not points, rebounds, assists, steals, or blocks nothing".

"And Amare doesn't give a shit on defense, and has the worst contract in the NBA".

Now for me personally, I still do those deals, even though I fully understand the sentiment, and really can't even argue them.

But i do feel our guys can be the main pieces to a championship, and that's all that matters to me.

But it takes more than three highly paid players and unfortunately quality aint coming for vet's min, or a late 1st round pick.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:36 AM   #87
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
"Melo makes twice as much as Gallo, but Melo doesn't average twice as much in any statistical category...not a single one."

"Not points, rebounds, assists, steals, or blocks nothing".

Well other than assists, neither does LeBron. Melo is however higher than Gallo in almost every statistical catergory INCLUDING Field Goal % and 3 point %. and assists... all things that are supposed weaknesses of Melo and "reasons we shouldn't have made the trade."

Quote:
"And Amare doesn't give a shit on defense, and has the worst contract in the NBA".
Can't argue this one! Well, maybe the contract part. There are some really bad ones out there. Anyone ever see how much Desagana Diop and Tyrus Thomas make?

Quote:
Oan, when your have 53 of 58 million tied into 3 guys, your gonna have your bench full of Bibby's and Baron's and Jeffries.

Not true. I'm not looking for us to sign superstars. There are plenty of players at the vet min better than Bibby. There's no excuse for that signing. That was just being lazy and signing a name instead of a game!
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:18 PM   #88
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Carmelo is getting in shape

http://instagr.am/p/Lvm7O0qNs8/





Scoooter is gonna be a fan soon
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:34 PM   #89
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Quote:
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Carmelo is getting in shape

http://instagr.am/p/Lvm7O0qNs8/





Scoooter is gonna be a fan soon

I hope he doesn't lose too much weight. I think it's an asset to have one of the stronger SFs in the league.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:44 PM   #90
Scoooter
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Default Re: 2012/2013 and beyond: how can the Knicks improve?

Same deal as last year. He was pushing around tires and shit and looking all ripped. Then the season wwraps up and even his spineless, sycophant coach blasts him for being out of shape.

He looks good in that photo though. He's always had some fat to spare, but I've never really thought his physique was a problem. He's got that big Oscar Robinson booty he can push people around with. He just needs to improve his conditioning so he can do something other than stand around and wait for the ball - which is odd, because playing in Denver for so many years you wouldn't think endurance would be an issue.

Last edited by Scoooter : 06-12-2012 at 07:49 PM.
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