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Old 01-16-2007, 01:22 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
Yeah, I did and it hardly warrants the bytching from the groupies (as usual).

Kobe fans and bitter Dallas fans have basically engaged in a campaign to discredit Wade's whole career as if he's never done anything significant on the court. I've NEVER lowered myself to that level when it comes to Bryant.

Groupies act like Wade is averaging like 10 more fts per game than the next person and it's close. PLUS he attacks the basket more than any other player in the league. This is all garbage and just another example of why Bryant fanatics are the worst people in all of sports.
I know that you dislike Kobe and hate groupie scum, but respond without going all anti Kobe and anti groupie scum on me (as I am not either).

1 - Imagine that last play in regulation as if Kobe were TMac, Wade, Lebron or Gilbert. Aside from the rest of the game, do you think that player X was fouled on that last drive to the basket at the end of regulation?

2 - Regardless of whether you think Kobe was fouled (I am going to guess that you think that Kobe was the one that did the fouling), Do you think the others I mentioned would have gotten that call?

3 - What did you think of Wade's act after he did not get the call in overtime on that drive to the hoop? It was pretty clear on the replay that he was not fouled, but he glared at the ref for quite awhile. Although he and others have obviously gotten that call at times, and he may have wanted the call, Wade knew he was not fouled. Don't you think that it looks bad when players make a big deal out of something when they are so clearly faking it (he may have wanted the call, but he knew he was not fouled)?

4 - Did Wade get away with a foul on Kobe when he stole the ball and went down for a dunk? Would that have been a foul on Kobe if the roles were reversed?

5 - Did Wade get away with a foul when there was no call after he missed the ball completely, only hitting Walton in the head, with Walton missing the layup late in the game? Would Wade have gotten that call if the roles were reversed?

Last edited by vert48 : 01-16-2007 at 02:26 PM.
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Old 01-16-2007, 02:00 PM   #77
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Kobe didn't get calls that Wade would have obviously got, not to mention all of Wade's no calls. That is a pretty much a fact by anyone who watched the game. There are some people here who do not like the Lakers and/or who do not like Kobe who would like to simplify the topic with an answer of "He should drive more". That's all well and good, but that does not answer Wade getting a call that Bryant doesn't get in almost the exact situations, it also doesn't answer how Wade is allowed to practically mug people on defense. Playing devil's advocate though, if Wade does get the calls at the rim because he attacks more then Kobe should the calls on the perimeter. I want to see Wade out there getting hacked on the perimeter with no calls fouled but Kobe get away with them. If that happened then those people's logic would make sense.

Maybe this topic should be named "What can Kobe do to get more foul calls like Wade", maybe the Kobe part should be left out of it and it would be seen with more respect. Because the fact is the Wade gets away with a sh!tload of calls that mere mortals cannot possibly draw. Let's blame it on the Laker "homers", "groupies", and "scum" though and ignore the fact the NBA writers, announcers, players, coaches, bloggers, are all saying the exact same thing.
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Old 01-16-2007, 02:05 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
Kobe Groupies are the worst.

I've felt similarily about calls Bryant has gotten over the years, but I would never sink to this level and everyone knows how much I can't stand Bryant.

Pitiful scum.

Pitiful scum? Wow, you're not overdramatic at all.
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Old 01-16-2007, 03:22 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vert48
I know that you dislike Kobe and hate groupie scum, but respond without going all anti Kobe and anti groupie scum on me (as I am not either).

1 - Imagine that last play in regulation as if Kobe were TMac, Wade, Lebron or Gilbert. Aside from the rest of the game, do you think that player X was fouled on that last drive to the basket at the end of regulation?

2 - Regardless of whether you think Kobe was fouled (I am going to guess that you think that Kobe was the one that did the fouling), Do you think the others I mentioned would have gotten that call?

3 - What did you think of Wade's act after he did not get the call in overtime on that drive to the hoop? It was pretty clear on the replay that he was not fouled, but he glared at the ref for quite awhile. Although he and others have obviously gotten that call at times, and he may have wanted the call, Wade knew he was not fouled. Don't you think that it looks bad when players make a big deal out of something when they are so clearly faking it (he may have wanted the call, but he knew he was not fouled)?

4 - Did Wade get away with a foul on Kobe when he stole the ball and went down for a dunk? Would that have been a foul on Kobe if the roles were reversed?

5 - Did Wade get away with a foul when there was no call after he missed the ball completely, only hitting Walton in the head, with Walton missing the layup late in the game? Would Wade have gotten that call if the roles were reversed?

Without even bothering with all that, I'm going to give the POINT.

The point is I could go back over Kobe's career and write something like the above for MANY games that I felt he was unfairly favored by the refs. In fact, you could do that for many star players in the league. The DIFFERENCE between me and these groupies that are trying to tarnish Wade's career is that you've NEVER caught me taking it to the far extreme that Bryant fanatics are taking it. I have never stooped to that level, though I could have just like they are.

This whole smear campaing is dishonest, overexaggerated and the result of a segment of fans that cannot BEAR the IDEA of any player approaching their God. (and another group that hate Wade for destroying their team in the Finals last year). End of story.

And the fact that Bryant fans would bytch about foul calls when their hero has been the benificiary of so many in his career is the height of hypocrisy.
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Old 01-16-2007, 03:30 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
Without even bothering with all that, I'm going to give the POINT.

The point is I could go back over Kobe's career and write something like the above for MANY games that I felt he was unfairly favored by the refs. In fact, you could do that for many star players in the league. The DIFFERENCE between me and these groupies that are trying to tarnish Wade's career is that you've NEVER caught me taking it to the far extreme that Bryant fanatics are taking it. I have never stooped to that level, though I could have just like they are.

This whole smear campaing is dishonest, overexaggerated and the result of a segment of fans that cannot BEAR the IDEA of any player approaching their God. (and another group that hate Wade for destroying their team in the Finals last year). End of story.

And the fact that Bryant fans would bytch about foul calls when their hero has been the benificiary of so many in his career is the height of hypocrisy.
I am wondering what you think of those particular plays, not about conspiracy theories and the campaign being waged against Wade by groupie scum.

Last edited by vert48 : 01-16-2007 at 03:34 PM.
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Old 01-16-2007, 03:39 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vert48
I am wondering what you think of those particular plays, not about conspiracy theories and about the campaign being waged against Wade by groupie scum.

Let's say I AGREE with you about every point you made (I don't). EVERY STAR player in the league, especially all star guard types has a game, or two, or three or a dozen where someone could write out exactly what you did and moan about the officiating.

The DIFFERENCE is, Bryant Fanatics try to make it into something much more sinister. As if there was some memo from Stern saying to favor Wade. They are trying to tarnish his career so anytime he accomplishes something they can say "Waaah, the refs".

That is straight bullshyt and regardless of whether you like Wade or not, you should be disgusted by it.

Even though I obviously dislike Bryant a lot, I wouldn't stoop to trying to dismiss his entire career as being the result of ref favoring. But there is no level that extreme Bryant fans won't sink to.

He takes TWO fts per game more than Kobe, and drives into the paint much more often. Please tell me where the conspiracy is.
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Old 01-16-2007, 03:44 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vert48
I am wondering what you think of those particular plays, not about conspiracy theories and the campaign being waged against Wade by groupie scum.

The poster you're attempting to engage is not in the business of legitimate debate. He's interested in generalizations, personal attacks, self promotion and most of all, Kobe Bryant. Don't waste your time trying to have an honest disagreement or discussion with him. His talking points are already written, and they won't be altered by anything you say or do, or by the truth.
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Old 01-16-2007, 03:48 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Laker Logic
The poster you're attempting to engage is not in the business of legitimate debate. He's interested in generalizations, personal attacks, self promotion and most of all, Kobe Bryant. Don't waste your time trying to have an honest disagreement or discussion with him. His talking points are already written, and they won't be altered by anything you say or do, or by the truth.

Yeah way to ignore all the OTHER posters (including your main man kblaze) who have said similar things. Just like the groupie you are, try to dismiss it as the ramblings of a "hater" like me when PLENTY of other people have said essentially the SAME thing.

Laker Logic, the Intellectual Groupie
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Old 01-16-2007, 03:52 PM   #84
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I wonder if anyone will ever acknowledge that fans of every team and not just Dallas or LA, sports commentators with no allegiance to LA or Kobe, and even players, are complaining about Wade's preferential treatment and implying ref bias and overly superstar treatment.

Nah. Just continue to pretend its only LA fans and Dallas fans talking about it. Steve Kerr last night? Kobe groupie. Rob Parker and Skip Bayless on Cold Pizza this morning? Obvious Kobe groupies with an agenda against Wade. Sheed? G. Wallce? Tmac? All kobe groupies. I go to another mb where fans who hate LA, and fans of every other team in the league are disgusted with Wade his star treatment. But nah, its only LA and Dallas fans. Everyone who wont admit it is just closet. No one else could possibly call out the great DWade.

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Old 01-16-2007, 03:57 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picc84
I wonder if anyone will ever acknowledge that fans of every team and not just Dallas or LA, sports commentators with no allegiance to LA or Kobe, and even players, are complaining about Wade's preferential treatment and implying ref bias and overly superstar treatment.

Nah. Just continue to pretend its only LA fans and Dallas fans talking about it. Steve Kerr last night? Kobe groupie. Rob Parker and Skip Bayless on Cold Pizza this morning? Obvious Kobe groupies with an agenda against Wade. Sheed? G. Wallce? Tmac? All kobe groupies. I go to another mb where fans who hate LA, and fans of every other team in the league are disgusted with Wade his star treatment. But nah, its only LA and Dallas fans. Everyone who wont admit it is just closet. No one else could possibly call out the great DWade.


It's funny how when Kobe was being villified left and right by the media, Phil, Shaq, etc. Kobe fans held onto that he was misunderstood no matter HOW MANY people were speaking against him. It was EVERYONE ELSE who was wrong.

Now the first thing you want to do in this situation is point to what other people are saying about Wade. Gotta love the hypocrisy. So everyone else was wrong about Kobe, but these people are all right about wade? Is that it?

Answer this one question though: He's shooting two fts per game more than Bryant, and has far more of a rim attacking style than he does. So I ask you where is the conspiracy?
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Old 01-16-2007, 04:02 PM   #86
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1. Has Wade been getting the benefit of the whistle even when he shouldnt? Yes
2. Has Kobe been getting fouled, hammered and recieved no whistle? Yes
3. Has Kobe been given the same treatment as D.Wade has when it comes to officials calling fouls, bogus/phantom or not? Nope

So yes Wade has been getting special treatment more than Kobe Bryant has. However I dont really harp on this too much or find it THAT big of a deal for a simple fact some tend to ignore, overlook or brush off. Whats that? Oh its that KOBE has recieved the Wade treatment before and to some who are complaining about Wade now they didnt say a word. They pointed to past players and said "Well they got special treatment so Kobe can too" or some just catch amnesia and dont address or acknowledge this. There was once a time where Kobe was untouchable and got "where was the foul?" calls.

So really how can D.Wade getting special treatment be argued against using someone who was in D.Wade shoes not too long ago?

This is a stalemate and Judge Mathis would bang the gavel and say there is no case. Go home. Next!
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Old 01-16-2007, 04:03 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
It's funny how when Kobe was being villified left and right by the media, Phil, Shaq, etc. Kobe fans held onto that he was misunderstood no matter HOW MANY people were speaking against him. It was EVERYONE ELSE who was wrong.

Now the first thing you want to do in this situation is point to what other people are saying about Wade. Gotta love the hypocrisy.

Never mind the many many positive things people have said about him.

Thats a funny way of dodging the issue, if ineffective. Whether Kobe fans are hypocrites or not, has nothing to do with the fact that you act as if its them and only them that complain about Wade, when that couldnt be further from the truth. Care to address the numerous others in the form of other teams' fans, players, and commentators alike that have called Wade out instead of trying to steer this into yet another attack on kobe fans? Eh, doubt it. Just call me a disgusting, sick, pitiful kobe groupie scum or whatever melodramatic title you can come up with and dodge the issue again.

Quote:
Answer this one question though: He's shooting two fts per game more than Bryant, and has far more of a rim attacking style than he does. So I ask you where is the conspiracy?

One, he doesnt attack the rim as much more than Kobe as you think he does, as proven by stats. Two, Kobe is played much tighter on the perimeter due to a number of factors, increasing his foul draws on the perimeter where defenders drape literally all over him, whereas Wade gets his inside as a result of defenders playing off him. Three, I never said there is a conspiracy, just bias. Any more?
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Old 01-16-2007, 04:03 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Knoe Itawl
Let's say I AGREE with you about every point you made (I don't). EVERY STAR player in the league, especially all star guard types has a game, or two, or three or a dozen where someone could write out exactly what you did and moan about the officiating.

The DIFFERENCE is, Bryant Fanatics try to make it into something much more sinister. As if there was some memo from Stern saying to favor Wade. They are trying to tarnish his career so anytime he accomplishes something they can say "Waaah, the refs".

That is straight bullshyt and regardless of whether you like Wade or not, you should be disgusted by it.

Even though I obviously dislike Bryant a lot, I wouldn't stoop to trying to dismiss his entire career as being the result of ref favoring. But there is no level that extreme Bryant fans won't sink to.

He takes TWO fts per game more than Kobe, and drives into the paint much more often. Please tell me where the conspiracy is.
I was talking about your conspiracy theory of Bryant Groupies smearing Wade, not a conspiracy of the refs giving Wade calls he does not deserve.

You are talking in generalities, I am asking in specifics. Since you will not answer the questions, how about I tell you how I think you would answer my questions:

1 - Even though Tivo clearly shows Wade hacking Kobe's arms prior to this, you think that Kobe fouled Ely. So, your answer would be a good no call.

2 - You chuckled when you read it because you know that Kobe, Wade, TMac, Lebron and Gilbert would ALL usually get that call. But, the fact that Kobe did not get it this time does not bother you given the fact that he gets so many others. You also know that Wade would ALWAYS get that call given the current state of things.

3 - You know he was not fouled, but you are thinking about how much bytching and moaning Kobe has been doing all game, so you are not being reasonable on this one. Kobe's moaning aside (yes, he does a lot of that), you know Wade was pissed he did not get a call he clearly did not deserve.

4/5 - You can't possibly think that Wade did not foul Kobe on that steal, or Walton on the missed layup. Tivo proves those with zero room for doubt. This is one of the reasons that you do not want to respond, because these are the most blatant errors I listed. Either you agree that he got away with it, or you are a blatant groupie. This one is tough for you, because you know the truth, but you do not want to show your D-Whistle Underoos in a public forum.

Last edited by vert48 : 01-16-2007 at 04:08 PM.
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Old 01-16-2007, 04:05 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laker Logic
The poster you're attempting to engage is not in the business of legitimate debate. He's interested in generalizations, personal attacks, self promotion and most of all, Kobe Bryant. Don't waste your time trying to have an honest disagreement or discussion with him. His talking points are already written, and they won't be altered by anything you say or do, or by the truth.
Knoe and I have actually agreed at times. He obviously knows a lot about basketball and often has good legit posts. He knows I am not a groupie, just a Laker fan. I am asking good questions, he just does not like the answers he would have to give.
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Old 01-16-2007, 04:13 PM   #90
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Yeah way to ignore all the OTHER posters (including your main man kblaze) who have said similar things.

Knoeital gimmick #1 - Bring up the name of some other respected poster and say "even ________ agreed with me this one time at band camp," in an attempt to gain respect by association.


Knoeital gimmick #2 - Claiming the allegiance of "PLENTY" (always capitalized) of other (always unnamed) people who supposedly agree with him. Since they're not named and he isn't specific about what he's talking about, no one can even know if they're part of the group he's claiming agrees with him. Therefore, no one will object and therefore, someone, somewhere, supposedly agrees with whatever it is he's distorting or outright lying about.

Quote:
Laker Logic, the Intellectual Groupie

Knoeital gimmick #3 - Namecalling, of course! Followed by emoticons indicating that at least one person finds Knoe funny. That guy can hit a joke from the team bus every time. (namecalling should of course be #1, it's his preferred tactic...but he put it last this time, Knoe must be trying to mix it up a bit today.
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