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Old 05-10-2012, 08:56 PM   #31
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Thats the thing with me though that I don't get. It's like some Knicks fans cant be pro Lin (or any other pg) and pro Melo. Melo seemed to work just fine with Chauncey. I think nobody ever takes in account that Melo is shooting a lot because of the lack of talent on our roster? I mean seriously, Mike Bibby, Toney Douglas and Baron Davis have all started at pg for our Knicks LOL I know Melo needs to not try and be the hero but c'mon. Let's not act like there isn't reason to think he needs to be.

My only issue with getting Nash is, it's another stop gap solution. Nash is rare in that he keeps himself in ridiculously good shape. However, he still is old as dust. If we get Nash, sure it'll probably make us better but for how long. We'll be right back to looking for a pg in 2 or 3 years. Maybe sooner.

Let's get a guy who we can trust and develop!

Honestly, why cant we get a guy to develop before/during Nash's time with the Knicks?

We could have our guy (Nash)...get our guy for the future...have Nash develop the future starter as Nash starts....and when our next guy steps in, he will be much more mature and will help lead to less mistakes that come with putting an inexperienced PG in a starting role. Like Jeremy Lin had with Turn Overs.

The question is....who could we even get as a guy for the future? Getting Nash this summer allows us time to answer that question.

Do I think we do get Nash though? Not sure...we seem commited to Lin.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:25 PM   #32
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
Thats the thing with me though that I don't get. It's like some Knicks fans cant be pro Lin (or any other pg) and pro Melo. Melo seemed to work just fine with Chauncey. I think nobody ever takes in account that Melo is shooting a lot because of the lack of talent on our roster? I mean seriously, Mike Bibby, Toney Douglas and Baron Davis have all started at pg for our Knicks LOL I know Melo needs to not try and be the hero but c'mon. Let's not act like there isn't reason to think he needs to be.

My only issue with getting Nash is, it's another stop gap solution. Nash is rare in that he keeps himself in ridiculously good shape. However, he still is old as dust. If we get Nash, sure it'll probably make us better but for how long. We'll be right back to looking for a pg in 2 or 3 years. Maybe sooner.

Let's get a guy who we can trust and develop!
Melo shoots a lot because that's how he scores a lot. He's never been a particularly efficient player, and I don't see why he ever would be.

The Knicks aren't in build for the future mode, the Knicks are in contend right now mode. If we get two or three solid years out of Nash, as good as he is, that's gravy. And I wouldn't put it past him.

And there's nothing to stop us from getting Nash and a young prospect (unless there's a money issue). Who better to learn from? Lin himself would do great coming off the bench behind Nash - although I don't know if that's possible.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:40 PM   #33
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Default Re: The blame thread

Nash aint comin here for peanuts. I hope you guys know that lol I have no problems with Nash. He clearly can ball. What I have a problem with is, getting guys who you have to replace every year. We complain about chemistry but every year we have a new, overhauled roster.
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Old 05-10-2012, 09:55 PM   #34
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Default Re: The blame thread

But getting a HOF floor general like Nash could be what some of our our ill-fitting pieces need to gel with one another.
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Old 05-10-2012, 11:47 PM   #35
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
We complain about chemistry but every year we have a new, overhauled roster.

thats the problem. we're always caught between wanting new pieces (whether it be coaches or players) and wanting time to gel and we usually end up neglecting the latter
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Old 05-11-2012, 12:27 AM   #36
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
I know he has a championship ring as well.

Where's D'antoni's ring?

as an assistant. lets compare their careers as a headcoach. thibs is not anywhere close to dantoni. It doesnt take a genius to be a defensive coach thats why you can find defensive coaches anywhere in this league but it takes higher IQ to be an offensive coach. In fact dantoni has shown he can play defense this season during linsanity. Thats how easy it is to play defense. Just hold them accountable and youll get results. But the best coaches can win without even using defense.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:09 AM   #37
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by knicksman
as an assistant. lets compare their careers as a headcoach. thibs is not anywhere close to dantoni. It doesnt take a genius to be a defensive coach thats why you can find defensive coaches anywhere in this league but it takes higher IQ to be an offensive coach. In fact dantoni has shown he can play defense this season during linsanity. Thats how easy it is to play defense. Just hold them accountable and youll get results. But the best coaches can win without even using defense.

You can't really seriously believe the stuff you type.

Thibs really only lost coach of the year because they didn't wanna give anyone the award twice. He's only been a head coach 2 years and he's already had the best record in the regular season TWICE.

He's already been to the ECF with roster that isn't exactly full of talent.

He had the best record in the league and not only was Rose hurt all year, Deng missed 12 games, Hamilton missed 38 games and Noah missed 2.

What exactly has D'antoni done that trumps that?
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:41 AM   #38
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Default Re: The blame thread

As a head coach, Thibs is miles ahead of D'Antoni. He won coach of the year and made it to the eastern conference finals in his first year.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:54 AM   #39
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
You can't really seriously believe the stuff you type.

Thibs really only lost coach of the year because they didn't wanna give anyone the award twice. He's only been a head coach 2 years and he's already had the best record in the regular season TWICE.

He's already been to the ECF with roster that isn't exactly full of talent.

He had the best record in the league and not only was Rose hurt all year, Deng missed 12 games, Hamilton missed 38 games and Noah missed 2.

What exactly has D'antoni done that trumps that?

2 conference finals and 1 finals.

injuries are more likely to happen on defensive teams than on offensive teams coz offensive teams play with skills while defensive teams play with hustle and effort. Thats why defensive anchors are more likely to get injured than offensive players. Thats why amare doesnt play defense because he can score and wants to protect his knees. Injury excuse is not valid. Because thats how defensive coaches work. Because they dont have the IQ to create offensive systems, they just force its players to play hard and overachieve in the first season then sucked the rest of the way. Its players are wearing down faster compared to other teams. Thats how defensive coaches work. Thats why they are overrated.
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Old 05-11-2012, 09:56 AM   #40
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Default Re: The blame thread

thibs would be back to being assistant until no one could break his record of longest assistant coach ever.
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:39 AM   #41
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by knicksman
2 conference finals and 1 finals.

injuries are more likely to happen on defensive teams than on offensive teams coz offensive teams play with skills while defensive teams play with hustle and effort. Thats why defensive anchors are more likely to get injured than offensive players. Thats why amare doesnt play defense because he can score and wants to protect his knees. Injury excuse is not valid. Because thats how defensive coaches work. Because they dont have the IQ to create offensive systems, they just force its players to play hard and overachieve in the first season then sucked the rest of the way. Its players are wearing down faster compared to other teams. Thats how defensive coaches work. Thats why they are overrated.

In Mike's 1st 2 years? And when did Mike D'Antoni reach the finals?

Is anybody else reading this!!! Defensive coaches are overrated? Name the last team to win a ring with strictly offense? It's ok...I'll wait.
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Old 05-11-2012, 10:50 AM   #42
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
In Mike's 1st 2 years? And when did Mike D'Antoni reach the finals?

Is anybody else reading this!!! Defensive coaches are overrated? Name the last team to win a ring with strictly offense? It's ok...I'll wait.

Its easy to be a defensive coach thats why most offensive coaches like pjax are also good on defense. Thats why there are lots defensive coaches in this league and some of them dont have jobs. It takes a higher IQ to be an offensive coach because it needs more analysis to develop this systems. Dantoni has proven he can play defense, its just that he doesnt hold his players accountable.

And who cares about the first 2 years, what is important is his team would be mediocore the next few years coz he ended the career of his star. And he hasnt matched dantonis career. Dantoni made the finals coz the suns/spurs series is the finals during 2007.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:12 AM   #43
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by knicksman
Its easy to be a defensive coach thats why most offensive coaches like pjax are also good on defense. Thats why there are lots defensive coaches in this league and some of them dont have jobs. It takes a higher IQ to be an offensive coach because it needs more analysis to develop this systems. Dantoni has proven he can play defense, its just that he doesnt hold his players accountable.

And who cares about the first 2 years, what is important is his team would be mediocore the next few years coz he ended the career of his star. And he hasnt matched dantonis career. Dantoni made the finals coz the suns/spurs series is the finals during 2007.

Nice way to turn things around conveniently.

Frankly, I think that it takes a lot of guts to defend D'Antoni, so I give credit to guys like you and Scoooter.
But, seriously, there is no way to avoid the simple reasoning that:
- You don't win without HUGE defense (or find me the exception in recent NBA history)
- Pringles doesn't care about defense


All in all I cannot blame any of the players (well maybe Amare yes) because we weren't expected to beat Miami.
But I blame our management because we could have been a title contender by now, and we aren't.
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Old 05-11-2012, 11:21 AM   #44
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by knicksman
Its easy to be a defensive coach thats why most offensive coaches like pjax are also good on defense. Thats why there are lots defensive coaches in this league and some of them dont have jobs. It takes a higher IQ to be an offensive coach because it needs more analysis to develop this systems. Dantoni has proven he can play defense, its just that he doesnt hold his players accountable.

And who cares about the first 2 years, what is important is his team would be mediocore the next few years coz he ended the career of his star. And he hasnt matched dantonis career. Dantoni made the finals coz the suns/spurs series is the finals during 2007.

So, correct me if I'm wrong here, but this is what I'm getting from your post:

1. It's easy to be a defensive coach and have the best record in the league.
I would love to have the best record in the league but ok.
2. "There are lots of defensive coaches in the league and some don't have jobs."
So if you're in the league, how don't you have a job? Are these defensive coaches working pro bono? Rather admirable and altruistic of them. But isn't Mike D'Antoni unemployed also?
3. "It takes a higher IQ to be an offensive coach because it needs more analysis to develop this systems."
So we should get like a professor to coach us then?
4."Dantoni has proven he can play defense, its just that he doesnt hold his players accountable."
So the stats are erroneous and he wasn't in the top 10 every year of his career for most points allowed per game?
03-04 (4th worse) 04-05 (worst) 05-06 (3rd worst) 06-07 (8th worst) 07-08 (6th worst) 08-09 (3rd worst) 09-10 (3rd worst) 10-11 (4th worst)
5. And who cares about the first 2 years, what is important is his team would be mediocore the next few years coz he ended the career of his star.
So the Bulls are going to suck next year? Is this what you're saying? You do realize that Rose was gone a lot this season and they still had the best record. Yea, who cares about the best record in the league 2 times in the row and making it to the conference finals in your 1st year as head coach.
6."Dantoni made the finals coz the suns/spurs series is the finals during
2007."
Wait what?
7. And he hasnt matched dantonis career.
Really? Mike's best 2 seasons ended in the conference finals. Thibs has already been there with less talent. Furthermore, we had a losing record when D'Antoni was here. We were 6 games under .500 with a rough schedule looming. We ended up 6 games OVER .500 If D'antoni was here, it would have marked his 5th time not making the playoffs. But yea, Tom Thibadeau is no Mike D'Antoni ... maybe that's a good thing!
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Old 05-11-2012, 01:43 PM   #45
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Default Re: The blame thread

Why are you guys frustrating yourselves with "knicksman"?

He's suggested we need to trade Melo, re-hire Mike D'Antoni, and run the Pick & Roll all game with a physically declining Amare Stoudemire.

When you hold such strong views against the grain, its impossible to have a discussion without arguing.
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