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Old 05-11-2012, 02:07 PM   #46
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rowe
Why are you guys frustrating yourselves with "knicksman"?

He's suggested we need to trade Melo, re-hire Mike D'Antoni, and run the Pick & Roll all game with a physically declining Amare Stoudemire.

When you hold such strong views against the grain, its impossible to have a discussion without arguing.

It's like a Democrat debating with George Bush. You know you're smarter than him but you can resist the urge to prove how ridiculous he sounds.
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:21 PM   #47
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jasi
Nice way to turn things around conveniently.

Frankly, I think that it takes a lot of guts to defend D'Antoni, so I give credit to guys like you and Scoooter.
But, seriously, there is no way to avoid the simple reasoning that:
- You don't win without HUGE defense (or find me the exception in recent NBA history)
- Pringles doesn't care about defense


All in all I cannot blame any of the players (well maybe Amare yes) because we weren't expected to beat Miami.
But I blame our management because we could have been a title contender by now, and we aren't.

Yea but to Scooter's credit (wait what, did I just say that? lol), Scooter knows basketball. He's even led me to turn the corner or compromise about things we've argued. I credit Scooter for me seeing beyond the initial jubilation of Mike Woodson's brief coaching tenure. While Woodson's defensive principals still are far better than Mike's, we do still switch on PnR a little too much. Also, Woodson's offensive philosophies leave a lot to be desired.

That being said, to support Mike D'Antoni is foolish. The reports of Melo running him out of town are just that...reports. Furthermore, they originate in the Daily News and the Post...newspaper who have blatantly lied on athletes to make headlines this year. No1 outside of the organization truly knows what happened. What I do know is, Mike D'Antoni QUIT!!! He wasn't fired! For that reason alone, he can go F himself. Sit on an upside down bar stool. Furthermore, we gave Antoni more than enough of a sample set. Other than Nate and Lin, guys haven't gotten better under him here. Dare I say it, look at Gallo. He's far more versatile than he was here.

It's one thing to support a guy, but when you start making lame argument's that history and statistics directly contradict, then it sours the mood and quality of the discussions. Scooter rarely does that. I think you guys know what my next sentence will consist of lol
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Old 05-11-2012, 02:39 PM   #48
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Default Re: The blame thread

He quit, but he got paid the remainder of his salary. He was out either way, Dolan just let him avoid the formal termination.

Everyone knows how that works.

And you're going to have to elaborate on this...

Quote:
It's one thing to support a guy, but when you start making lame argument's that history and statistics directly contradict, then it sours the mood and quality of the discussions. Scooter rarely does that. I think you guys know what my next sentence will consist of lol

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Old 05-12-2012, 12:59 AM   #49
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
So, correct me if I'm wrong here, but this is what I'm getting from your post:

1. It's easy to be a defensive coach and have the best record in the league.
I would love to have the best record in the league but ok.
2. "There are lots of defensive coaches in the league and some don't have jobs."
So if you're in the league, how don't you have a job? Are these defensive coaches working pro bono? Rather admirable and altruistic of them. But isn't Mike D'Antoni unemployed also?
3. "It takes a higher IQ to be an offensive coach because it needs more analysis to develop this systems."
So we should get like a professor to coach us then?
4."Dantoni has proven he can play defense, its just that he doesnt hold his players accountable."
So the stats are erroneous and he wasn't in the top 10 every year of his career for most points allowed per game?
03-04 (4th worse) 04-05 (worst) 05-06 (3rd worst) 06-07 (8th worst) 07-08 (6th worst) 08-09 (3rd worst) 09-10 (3rd worst) 10-11 (4th worst)
5. And who cares about the first 2 years, what is important is his team would be mediocore the next few years coz he ended the career of his star.
So the Bulls are going to suck next year? Is this what you're saying? You do realize that Rose was gone a lot this season and they still had the best record. Yea, who cares about the best record in the league 2 times in the row and making it to the conference finals in your 1st year as head coach.
6."Dantoni made the finals coz the suns/spurs series is the finals during
2007."
Wait what?
7. And he hasnt matched dantonis career.
Really? Mike's best 2 seasons ended in the conference finals. Thibs has already been there with less talent. Furthermore, we had a losing record when D'Antoni was here. We were 6 games under .500 with a rough schedule looming. We ended up 6 games OVER .500 If D'antoni was here, it would have marked his 5th time not making the playoffs. But yea, Tom Thibadeau is no Mike D'Antoni ... maybe that's a good thing!


yeah coz dantoni never had the best record in his career. As I said defensive coaches overachieve usually in their first season due to have fresh bodies. But after a year of banging those teams will be shit just like the bulls right now. Rose was gone because of his defense. When will you get that. Thats what happened to Lin and amare, davis, shumpert right now under woodson. Thats what happened to tmac, yao with the rockets. Thats why most defensive anchors in this league like noah, perkins, bynum are injury prones. REally? The best teams that won didnt have just defense. They have both offense and defense. Coz if all you need is defense, then chicago or miami shouldve won last year instead of mavs.

I never knew IQ only applies to schools. You need IQ in everything you do. LOL
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Old 05-12-2012, 01:46 AM   #50
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Default Re: The blame thread

You do have a point. Really great teams can coast to the post season. The Spurs do it every year.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:15 AM   #51
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoooter
You do have a point. Really great teams can coast to the post season. The Spurs do it every year.

really, the best teams are cohesive on offense and that alone is enough to win against the bottom teams whereas you see chicago hustling against the charlottes of the leagues thats why come playoff time, they are fully banged up.
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Old 05-12-2012, 05:16 AM   #52
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Default Re: The blame thread

at the end of the day, the bulls right now lost in the first round and thats all that matters. dantoni 2 conference finals and 1 finals
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:48 AM   #53
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Default Re: The blame thread

Here's what I mean Scooter. These are just some of the gems from one "Knicksman":


Quote:
As I said defensive coaches overachieve usually in their first season due to have fresh bodies.

Quote:
at the end of the day, the bulls right now lost in the first round and thats all that matters. dantoni 2 conference finals and 1 finals

Quote:
Rose was gone because of his defense. When will you get that. Thats what happened to Lin and amare, davis, shumpert right now under woodson.

Quote:
Thats what happened to tmac, yao with the rockets. Thats why most defensive anchors in this league like noah, perkins, bynum are injury prones.

Quote:
thibs would be back to being assistant until no one could break his record of longest assistant coach ever.

Quote:
Its easy to be a defensive coach thats why most offensive coaches like pjax are also good on defense.

Quote:
Thats why defensive anchors are more likely to get injured than offensive players. Thats why amare doesnt play defense because he can score and wants to protect his knees. Injury excuse is not valid. Because thats how defensive coaches work. Because they dont have the IQ to create offensive systems, they just force its players to play hard and overachieve in the first season then sucked the rest of the way.

Quote:
Woodson style is not sustainable longterm just like thibs. He wins but at the same time sacrifices the health of its players.

Quote:
Dantoni had no center and the year they have a chance was when they got screwed. But still dantoni>>>>melo. 1 conference finals with him not really the reason why they went there versus 2 conference finals and 1 finals(spurs/suns rigged game was the finals that time)
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Old 05-12-2012, 07:52 AM   #54
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoooter
He quit, but he got paid the remainder of his salary. He was out either way, Dolan just let him avoid the formal termination.

Everyone knows how that works.

And you're going to have to elaborate on this...




i think most people can tolerate your support for Mike D'antoni because at least you try to back it up with facts. This bullshit above me however is just an example on how message boards become wack!
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:07 AM   #55
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
i think most people can tolerate your support for Mike D'antoni because at least you try to back it up with facts. This bullshit above me however is just an example on how message boards become wack!

I know youre getting owned it own man coz you cant refute anymore. But hey I have higher standards. I want dynasty not one time win. And I believe this team could be a dynasty if only melo bought into team play.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:20 AM   #56
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by knicksman
at the end of the day, the bulls right now lost in the first round and thats all that matters. dantoni 2 conference finals and 1 finals
The Suns still won without him, and when did he make the finals?
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:23 AM   #57
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by knicksman
I know youre getting owned it own man coz you cant refute anymore. But hey I have higher standards. I want dynasty not one time win. And I believe this team could be a dynasty if only melo bought into team play.
You won't get a dynasty in New York because the team makes boatloads of money even when they lose.

There is no incentive to create one.

And it isn't just dependent on Melo, as he is the only player on the team who actually has anything close to a complete game.

Amare does nothing defense related, and offensively had declined halfway into his first year here.

Do you expect Amare to buy into team play as well? That would mean defense.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:37 AM   #58
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
The Suns still won without him, and when did he make the finals?


They still are using his system.
I consider the suns/spurs to be the finals. Cleveland is a first round exit team in the west. The east is so weak that most of the years, the finals happen to be in the west.
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Old 05-12-2012, 09:43 AM   #59
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by knicksman
They still are using his system.
I consider the suns/spurs to be the finals. Cleveland is a first round exit team in the west. The east is so weak that most of the years, the finals happen to be in the west.

That's ridiculous.

And even if they did still use his system, they still won without him.
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:03 AM   #60
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Default Re: The blame thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by knickscity
You won't get a dynasty in New York because the team makes boatloads of money even when they lose.

There is no incentive to create one.

And it isn't just dependent on Melo, as he is the only player on the team who actually has anything close to a complete game.

Amare does nothing defense related, and offensively had declined halfway into his first year here.

Do you expect Amare to buy into team play as well? That would mean defense.

suns didnt have a problem making to the conference finals with his defense. Amare is still more impactful than melo despite not focusing on defense. And its hard to play defense on a team that has a shitty offense. He would just be ending his career for a team that has no chance of winning it all. In fact mare broke down after just 6 games of playing defense. Amare can still play to his potential. In fact he played well during linsanity and he is our best player during the 6-1 stretch with woodson. Its just that we have a cancer in melo who makes amare and lin and his other teammates worse.
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