Originally Posted by Frank Foley
Helluva post, DK. I just wish I hadn't posted my suggestion in a Thunder thread.
Like I said, I'm not ordering you to change anything, but I've always liked it when some of the old, Charley Rosen, Roland Lazenby types (i.e., curmudgeons...just kidding) are arguing a point, then drop in a nugget of basketball wisdom that others can take or leave. I felt posters like kblaze and gts did that a lot when they were here. You do it too, and I think people do appreciate it, but the forum just isn't as active as it used to be, and too often it gets lost by the wayside.
On a message board or in person, it's hard to pick and choose what point to make. It's a problem I hear Hubie Brown and Dr. Jack get a lot while they're on air, because they have a million different things they notice in a play, but they only have a five-second window to speak.
Speaking of Rosen, do you agree with his opinion that the worst pro coaches are superior to the best college coaches? He's pointed out the tried and true ego-managing issue, but more than that, he's said that pro coaches are just better than college coaches: they run vastly more intricate sets, they've got more expansive playbooks, and they're better at making adjustments. Coach Wooden and Coach K are among those he's excoriated, by the way.
I dunno, I think he's overstating his point. I love the way Boeheim's teams run the 2-3 zone. John Beilein's really made the 1-3-1 his own (I'd almost never run this personally, just because I always see the other team grab the offensive board). And Bob Huggin's WVU team with Ebanks was really disruptive with its 1-1-3. And those are just the defensive gurus. Listen to these guys talk about positioning, spacing, floor balance, and pressure and releases, and you'd be hard-pressed to say that they're the ones playing checkers instead of chess.
Besides which, some of the most iconic (and, to varying degrees, still effective) offenses originated in college ball. The Triangle. The Princeton. The Flex (kinda). People talk about about iso-ball being quintessentially NBA, and maybe now it is, but the 4-out concept was being utilized by Wooden decades before Jordan made the "GTFO of my way" a pro staple. Wooden used it to initiate team sets, but the principle of spacing in order to emphasize individual creativity on the perimeter is hardly unique to the NBA.
Dr. Jack is beyond brilliant
Hubie has actually gotten smarter AFTER he stopped coaching....lol.
Yeah, the longer you have been coaching the more the game slows down and you notice every detail with all 10 players on the floor. I see everything, my players will sometimes say they didn't do something but then when we look at the film they see I was right....and I mean guys away from the ball. They know I see everything but don't understand how.
Rosen's comments used to be true, but just like the once glorious Center position, the talent level has faded horribly......how many really good centers are there right now? How many really good coaches are there right now actively coaching 3-4? tops, out of 30 teams.
Most of the rest are bums.
Better coaches are now staying in college due to the gap closing between NBA coaching salary and college coaching salary. Control is another huge factor......the NBA has become a Players league where a star player can easily get a coach fired. The coaches cannot discipline players in the way a college coach can do, add to that NBA players have become divas who feel they know it all and don't want to listen or play team ball.....it's all about stats and highlights.....coaches like Mike Brown make ridiculous comments about Kobe "Allowing" Brown to coach him
In college, you listen and do what the coach tells you Or Else!!!!
A college coach has only marginal ego management to deal with.
Whereas college coaches are to some degree on a level playing field because all must recruit (To a large degree) NBA coaches are at the mercy of salary constraints and the dedication of ownership to pay for players.
Small market teams pretty much have to rely on the draft and development of talent.......obviously this can work = OKC & SA.
As for the amount of plays and playbook.....this is reversed, College is much more detailed.....for proof look no further than how much NBA teams are baffled by a zone defense, they react like a ufo landed on the court......in college they just laugh and switch to their zone busting offense immediately without the coach having to say a thing. I could go on and on about this issue.....
College coaches are "The Man" on campus and are worshiped by the students. They have a much longer future with the school and have complete freedom to switch teams if a better offer comes along....or if they get fired it is very easy to get a comparable job quickly......not an easy thing for an NBA coach.....so top college guys top coaches stay at colleges. It's very clearly the College coaches playing Chess......most NBA coaches today cannot figure out the most simple adjustments of which MB is by far the worst.
AAU ball as i mentioned.....all the good coaches are playing Chess....you have to, or get blown out. In the NBA you can afford to lose a playoff game or 2 to make an adjustment. In college or AAU, you are a goner if you can't make not just" In-Game" adjustments but immediate adjustments.....1 loss and you're out. You are quick or you are dead.
The NBA once had fundamentals.....now other than the Spurs what team would you call fundamentally sharp on offense and defense.
The WNBA player are far more fundamentally sound.
I don't use the 1-3-1 either, I actually use a variety of hybrid defenses....I don't want the offenses to feel comfortable with how to attack what they are looking at. The same goes with offense.....if a team starts running a "Textbook" offense just the way every team runs it then it is predictable and easy to stop by a smart aggressive team. ISO's are ok, but you have to have cutters and rebounders.
FF, are you playing? Coaching? If not, you should be. what is you BB background?