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Old 03-23-2013, 03:54 PM   #3991
Rubio2Gasol
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

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Originally Posted by alenleomessi
Like i said it was a weak era. Except Romario who was overrated anyway, all the others werent anything special really... You mention Laudrup, now we have Iniesta who is a much better version of him, and he is not even a top 2 player in the world. Weak era. Fact.

The reason you call it weak is because it was coincided with a period of brilliant defense. The lack of "great" players was more a result of this than a simple lack of talent. Defense was appreciated and allowed...unlike the modern game.

Iniesta is not a better version of Laudrup. Though similar Laudrup to me had a better final ball and was more direct, but most of all he was the attacking driving force of his teams. If you disagree that's fine though, very few rate Laudrup as highly as I do.

Sometimes I wonder if people even make an effort to understand the game rather than use it to conveniently to suit their agenda.

I mean what seems more likely - talented players disappeared for 6 years or the general level of defense was better. How would playing in a "weak era" with a lack of great attackers help Baggio be better than he was?.

Also Matthaus is the best central midfielder I've ever seen, better than Xavi, better than Socrates, Falcao, Scholes, better than Viera (who was probably the closest match structurally at their primes - since I know you never actually watched Matthaus play). He was a defensive and offensive force at the same time, just as good running a team as any CM you can think of, driving the ball forward, passing, auxiliary runs, he had all that. At the same time he had a equally profound defensive impact. One of the most brilliant total footballers to ever touch grass.

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Old 03-30-2013, 01:46 PM   #3992
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

Bayern up 7-0 to hamburg and it's only the 54th minute
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:22 PM   #3993
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

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Originally Posted by knickballer
Bayern up 7-0 to hamburg and it's only the 54th minute
9-2 LOL
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:25 PM   #3994
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

bayern should be fined for having no respect to the opponent
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:25 PM   #3995
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

good to see city having a good game again

been a rough season

good thing the nuggets and atletico madrid have been preforming
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:29 PM   #3996
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

good to see rafa benitez destroy another team that won the CL the year before
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Old 03-30-2013, 03:27 PM   #3997
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

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good to see rafa benitez destroy another team that won the CL the year before
lol duma$$ it was a fluke season in the CL... they were like what 5th or 6th in the EPL? same thing this year, too bad uefa cant screw tottenham this year and take their CL place.. chelsea wasnt supposed to play in the CL this yer anyway!
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:18 PM   #3998
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alenleomessi
Like i said it was a weak era. Except Romario who was overrated anyway, all the others werent anything special really... You mention Laudrup, now we have Iniesta who is a much better version of him, and he is not even a top 2 player in the world. Weak era. Fact.


When people don't know shit and keep talking it annoys me. That tier is so devoid of understanding that I can't believe it.

Weak era? Really what the hell do you know about it? Iniesta as skilled as Dinho? Uhh, no. Skills is not about tricks. Which is why CRon, as skilled as he is, isn't nearly as skilled as Bergkamp.

CRon wouldn't be a top 5 player in that weak era. Iniesta would be more appreciated. Not to mention that the guys competing for #2 in that era are better than Iniesta.

Again, when people don't know, it bothers me. But when people don't know about this sport, in an age where everyone has such access to games, then it really bothers me. It's like listening to an English commentator and realizing he has no idea what he's talking about. Except that it's more annoying, as you guys are talking not just about what you see but talking about shit that is laughable and when you don't know. It's like reading your comment that Chris Paul is already better than Magic Johnson. Except I get more annoyed when it happens in this sport.

I'd laugh but it honestly makes me angry...and it makes me sad.

Last edited by Whoah10115 : 03-30-2013 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:26 PM   #3999
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubio2Gasol
The reason you call it weak is because it was coincided with a period of brilliant defense. The lack of "great" players was more a result of this than a simple lack of talent. Defense was appreciated and allowed...unlike the modern game.

Iniesta is not a better version of Laudrup. Though similar Laudrup to me had a better final ball and was more direct, but most of all he was the attacking driving force of his teams. If you disagree that's fine though, very few rate Laudrup as highly as I do.

Sometimes I wonder if people even make an effort to understand the game rather than use it to conveniently to suit their agenda.

I mean what seems more likely - talented players disappeared for 6 years or the general level of defense was better. How would playing in a "weak era" with a lack of great attackers help Baggio be better than he was?.

Also Matthaus is the best central midfielder I've ever seen, better than Xavi, better than Socrates, Falcao, Scholes, better than Viera (who was probably the closest match structurally at their primes - since I know you never actually watched Matthaus play). He was a defensive and offensive force at the same time, just as good running a team as any CM you can think of, driving the ball forward, passing, auxiliary runs, he had all that. At the same time he had a equally profound defensive impact. One of the most brilliant total footballers to ever touch grass.



Vieira is more of a DM...a box-to-box DM but a DM and the best DM who has ever played.

I think Xavi is the best CM I've seen...it comes down to a unique thing that just amazes me. His metronome self and ability to NEVER lose possession, while controlling the game like no player I've ever seen...but I haven't seen a Mattheus game in a long time and I'm dying to watch one. There are other Brazilians to consider tho. Didi and Gerson. I'd take Matthaus over both of them (don't let my Dad catch me saying that) but they're amongst the best ever. Also, for the short time he was great, Veron was amongst the best I've seen.

I'm curious to know what you think about Iniesta...as far as what position he actually is. Is he an attacking CM or is a CAM. It's not the same thing and, it plays out to semantics, but it's something I'm curious about. I'd say it's probably dependent on how you play.
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Old 03-30-2013, 05:55 PM   #4000
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Vieira is more of a DM...a box-to-box DM but a DM and the best DM who has ever played.

I think Xavi is the best CM I've seen...it comes down to a unique thing that just amazes me. His metronome self and ability to NEVER lose possession, while controlling the game like no player I've ever seen...but I haven't seen a Mattheus game in a long time and I'm dying to watch one. There are other Brazilians to consider tho. Didi and Gerson. I'd take Matthaus over both of them (don't let my Dad catch me saying that) but they're amongst the best ever. Also, for the short time he was great, Veron was amongst the best I've seen.

I'm curious to know what you think about Iniesta...as far as what position he actually is. Is he an attacking CM or is a CAM. It's not the same thing and, it plays out to semantics, but it's something I'm curious about. I'd say it's probably dependent on how you play.
\

Yea Xavi is a master. Xav's consistency in controlling each and every game make's it a close one, but he isn't adjustable enough. I want to avoid saying like he's a product of the system or the talent around him , that's not what I'm saying, but there are situations where you know he's going to be very very ineffective if his teammates can't meet his level , or if the opposition raises their game above their level.

Matthaus I think can adjust to the performance level of his teammates and the opposition more. Particularly in the latter case his ability to play on the back-foot is invaluable.

Iniesta is naturally a CM. The way Barca aligns itself he can't be a CAM. I'm not just talking about formation or anything like that, I'm talking, Messi needs his space to fall into, Xavi needs his passing option to the left, so Iniesta can't be a CAM.

I've seen the argument that he's a winger, and that one I take more seriously, but he's not actually a winger, but more like a early Zidane, who'se capable of driving the entirety of the play from the wing (actually capable, not like a Ronaldo or a Robben who picks up the ball and just pushes it through space and shoots, or a Ribery who pick's it up and dribbles,dribbles,dribbles before a cross).

I think he's a CM who plays on the wing for spacing purposes and because it amplifies his personal options seeing as he can go down the touchline so effectively.
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:33 PM   #4001
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

laudrup better than iniesta, c.r not even nearly as skilled as berkgamp... im not even going to waste time replying to that..
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:43 PM   #4002
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

His team 2 cm away from losing to a weak Ac Milan team and the Bosnian sheep herder is talking smack again.

Instead of just waiting to see what happens. Your predictions have been horrible since you joined the forum.

When Barca loses you come back next season as if nothing happened.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:34 PM   #4003
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrei89
His team 2 cm away from losing to a weak Ac Milan team and the Bosnian sheep herder is talking smack again.

Instead of just waiting to see what happens. Your predictions have been horrible since you joined the forum.

When Barca loses you come back next season as if nothing happened.
we won 4-2 on aggregate, how is that 2cm? its not like we won on penalties or something. we dominated when it mattered.

my predictions have not been horrible. except for the clippers beating spurs ( which i unfortunately made a thread about it ) all the other have been pretty good actually. there is not search function so i cant prove it, but neither can you.

Well of course i do, life continues, new season new hopes, and works for me since barca doesnt lose every season ;)
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Old 03-30-2013, 08:09 PM   #4004
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alenleomessi
laudrup better than iniesta, c.r not even nearly as skilled as berkgamp... im not even going to waste time replying to that..


It's in line with the time you don't waste watching and just talking shit.
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Old 03-30-2013, 08:23 PM   #4005
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubio2Gasol
\

Yea Xavi is a master. Xav's consistency in controlling each and every game make's it a close one, but he isn't adjustable enough. I want to avoid saying like he's a product of the system or the talent around him , that's not what I'm saying, but there are situations where you know he's going to be very very ineffective if his teammates can't meet his level , or if the opposition raises their game above their level.

Matthaus I think can adjust to the performance level of his teammates and the opposition more. Particularly in the latter case his ability to play on the back-foot is invaluable.

Iniesta is naturally a CM. The way Barca aligns itself he can't be a CAM. I'm not just talking about formation or anything like that, I'm talking, Messi needs his space to fall into, Xavi needs his passing option to the left, so Iniesta can't be a CAM.

I've seen the argument that he's a winger, and that one I take more seriously, but he's not actually a winger, but more like a early Zidane, who'se capable of driving the entirety of the play from the wing (actually capable, not like a Ronaldo or a Robben who picks up the ball and just pushes it through space and shoots, or a Ribery who pick's it up and dribbles,dribbles,dribbles before a cross).

I think he's a CM who plays on the wing for spacing purposes and because it amplifies his personal options seeing as he can go down the touchline so effectively.


Well, when I say central I mean it to differ from center. You consider Iniesta to be a CM who often drifts left (which is accurate) but he's still central...like air conditioning, he just permeates thru throughout the field. So when I say CAM I mean more of an attacking mid who plays in the between front and back, but still with the mindset to attack. I say he's somewhere in-between. Barcelona play the way they play, so it's always difficult to make sense of...if that makes sense.


Onto Xavi...I do know exactly what you mean. He obviously isn't a product, as I think he's cultivated the Barcelona game, as they've cultivated his. But I remember the lead-in to the Winter Break, in the 07-08 season, thinking that this guy was just a pain...he was world-class but he was so passive in his play. I'd pretty much given up on him and then the second half of that season came...and then the Euro Cup. Followed by the 08/09 season and I tell you I believed then and believe now that he was the best player in football for those two years. In every big game he showed up and just...Xavied. And it's funny, because when I was upset with him for not maximizing I was never thinking he'd be better than Deco...in a vacuum (Deco was a hard-worker and one of the smartest players you'll ever see) he isn't as good as Deco...but his IQ, acumen, relaxation and trust in what he's doing and within the structure he does it...it's a waste for me to try to define it because what he does is uniquely unique.
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