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Old 03-31-2013, 03:34 AM   #4006
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Vieira is more of a DM...a box-to-box DM but a DM and the best DM who has ever played.


Roy Keane was a better DM than Vieira, Makelele too.
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:59 AM   #4007
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)




slowly but surely taking over that 2nd best player spot in the world
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Old 03-31-2013, 08:45 AM   #4008
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

I think I may have went around in a circle their . Basically Matthaus was complete and understood the game well enough to iluse his completeness in a nuanced manner. Completeness is not inherently an advantage (see Gerrard- all the tools but only occasionally can he bring it all together effectively)

Intent to attack is different than a position for me. With that criteria you probably could label Alves a winger. Iniesta has a role to fulfill before attack , he helps Xavi establish possession and push teams back to create the space necessary to break them down. After that his role might evolve into that of an attacking midfielder or a winger, but his primary role is as a CM.

I think guys like Viera,Keane are difficult to classify as DM's. Did they defend? Yea. Maybe it was even their primary focus but they still played in a pivot with another midfielder who had to defend as well and to some extent shared playmaking duties. It's not a rule, I've seen Redono be primary defender and primary playmaker, so it's possible , Rijkaard didn
Something similar occasionally and Busquets may be able to do it,
but it doesn't fit the traditional DM role the way I think of it. I think of those guys as segundo volantes.

Makalele is a straight forward DM to me, needless to say the best I've seen.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:08 AM   #4009
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

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Originally Posted by Horatio33
Roy Keane was a better DM than Vieira, Makelele too.



No they weren't. While Makelele is a great great player I think the English make a big deal of him and his "role"...I'm not saying that's what you're doing, as I don't even know where you're from...but a lot of English and PL watchers are under the impression that the DM position is a recent development in football. Makelele gets a lot of attention for all that. But he was never nearly as good as Vieira. Vieira did everything and, defensively, he was also better than Makelele. He was the better enforcer, smarter, and obviously on another planet, as far as playing the ball goes.


Roy Keane is also a great great player but the same applies. He did more than Makelele but he didn't have the impact that Vieira did. Even Ferguson, who hates Vieira, would admit that.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:16 AM   #4010
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

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Originally Posted by Whoah10115
Roy Keane is also a great great player but the same applies. He did more than Makelele but he didn't have the impact that Vieira did. Even Ferguson, who hates Vieira, would admit that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwcpFXOsrY8

Keane destroyed Vieira after this, United won 2-4 at Highbury. Where was Vieira?

Keane had great impact on United. Ferguson said after United came from 2-0 down to beat Juventus with Deschamps, Zidane and Davids in midfield, and Keane was suspended from the final of the European cup: “It was the most emphatic display of selflessness I have seen on a football field. Pounding over every blade of grass competing if he would rather die of exhaustion than lose he inspired all around him. I felt it was an honour to be associated with such a player.”

Ferguson also said about Keane: "When I look at Roy Keane I often see myself, I equate this to his passion, desire and striving for perfection. He cares. He's a born winner. He is the driving force, the inspiration, the best reader of the game, the best talker of the game, the biggest winner."

Ferguson again on Keane: "If I was putting Roy Keane out there to represent Manchester United on a one against one, we'd win the Derby, the National, the Boat Race and anything else. It's an incredible thing he's got."

Keane drove United to 7 league titles, back to backs, a treble. Vieira couldn't inspire a back to back.

Last edited by Horatio33 : 03-31-2013 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:33 AM   #4011
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubio2Gasol
I think I may have went around in a circle their . Basically Matthaus was complete and understood the game well enough to iluse his completeness in a nuanced manner. Completeness is not inherently an advantage (see Gerrard- all the tools but only occasionally can he bring it all together effectively)

Intent to attack is different than a position for me. With that criteria you probably could label Alves a winger. Iniesta has a role to fulfill before attack , he helps Xavi establish possession and push teams back to create the space necessary to break them down. After that his role might evolve into that of an attacking midfielder or a winger, but his primary role is as a CM.

I think guys like Viera,Keane are difficult to classify as DM's. Did they defend? Yea. Maybe it was even their primary focus but they still played in a pivot with another midfielder who had to defend as well and to some extent shared playmaking duties. It's not a rule, I've seen Redono be primary defender and primary playmaker, so it's possible , Rijkaard didn
Something similar occasionally and Busquets may be able to do it,
but it doesn't fit the traditional DM role the way I think of it. I think of those guys as segundo volantes.

Makalele is a straight forward DM to me, needless to say the best I've seen.


Well, both Vieira and Keane are box-to-box players, so that's always difficult to classify. Redondo is also a box-to-box player, tho not to the extent of either (especially not Vieira). Rijkaard is another who is definitely a box-to-box DM, but he almost played like a sweeper at times...tho I guess you could say, on that basis, he exemplifies a box-to-box game.


But look at a guy like Dunga...Dunga is the least athletic player I've ever seen. He was a straight DM...but his best qualities were his ability to anchor the middle and his ability to playmake from deep...his long passing is some of the best ever and his control of the game from deep was pretty amazing.


I think I agree on Iniesta...his versatility gets me thinking tho. So, I think I agree, he's more of an attacking CM. Pretty much the combo guard equivalent.


I also agree on Gerrard...Matthaus impressed me because he could utilize all his tools at once. That's a pretty remarkable thing to do. And he was able to play that caliber of game in any situation.
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Old 03-31-2013, 11:42 AM   #4012
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Horatio33
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwcpFXOsrY8

Keane destroyed Vieira after this, United won 2-4 at Highbury. Where was Vieira?

Keane had great impact on United. Ferguson said after United came from 2-0 down to beat Juventus with Deschamps, Zidane and Davids in midfield, and Keane was suspended from the final of the European cup: “It was the most emphatic display of selflessness I have seen on a football field. Pounding over every blade of grass competing if he would rather die of exhaustion than lose he inspired all around him. I felt it was an honour to be associated with such a player.”

Ferguson also said about Keane: "When I look at Roy Keane I often see myself, I equate this to his passion, desire and striving for perfection. He cares. He's a born winner. He is the driving force, the inspiration, the best reader of the game, the best talker of the game, the biggest winner."

Ferguson again on Keane: "If I was putting Roy Keane out there to represent Manchester United on a one against one, we'd win the Derby, the National, the Boat Race and anything else. It's an incredible thing he's got."

Keane drove United to 7 league titles, back to backs, a treble. Vieira couldn't inspire a back to back.



I remember that first Ferguson quote on Keane...that's the semi-final where he ended up suspended for the Final vs. Bayern.


I don't disagree on any of what you say about Keane. And I admit Vieira is one of my favorite players. But let's not act as tho United were not and are not still today an absolute machine. Beckham was probably the 4th best midfielder on the team...Scholes, Giggs, Keane...that's incredible. More incredible is that it was that way for like 7 seasons...the same 4 as the starting midfield. That's a remarkable thing.


Vieira was the main reason for France getting to the WC Final in 2006. Everyone credits Zidane, all due to that game against us...but Vieira was probably the best player in the World Cup, along with Cannavaro. I personally have never seen any better. Makelele is definitely not as good tho. I know how important he was to Madrid (maybe the most important player on that team...I know Hierro thought so) but he just isn't as good.
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:03 PM   #4013
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

Wow Rafa Benitez just fire this scrub now put him out oif his misery, what the hell was the team he put out yesterday, 7 changes He doesnt know how to rotate, he doesnt know what he's doing he's just a loser, no one wants him here why is he even here?
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Old 03-31-2013, 12:09 PM   #4014
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)




busted
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Old 03-31-2013, 03:19 PM   #4015
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

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Originally Posted by alenleomessi



slowly but surely taking over that 2nd best player spot in the world
I'd still take Iniesta and Ronaldo over him, but he's "much" younger than them, next year he may very well be number 2
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Old 03-31-2013, 07:28 PM   #4016
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

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Originally Posted by b1imtf
I'd still take Iniesta and Ronaldo over him, but he's "much" younger than them, next year he may very well be number 2

Lmao get real.

Ribery, Ronaldo, Ibra, Hazard, Pirlo, etc. are all better than him.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:29 AM   #4017
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

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Originally Posted by The_Yearning
Lmao get real.

Ribery, Ronaldo, Ibra, Hazard, Pirlo, etc. are all better than him.

Peak Hazard will be the better player but as for now Bale is better. Not suer if Ribery is a better player either
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:31 AM   #4018
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Young
Wow Rafa Benitez just fire this scrub now put him out oif his misery, what the hell was the team he put out yesterday, 7 changes He doesnt know how to rotate, he doesnt know what he's doing he's just a loser, no one wants him here why is he even here?

Chelsea have 3 games in 9 days, not his fault Cheslea players are mentally softer/weaker than a retard like you.

Last edited by Mr Clutch Melo : 04-01-2013 at 05:55 AM.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:45 AM   #4019
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

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Peak Hazard will be the better player but as for now Bale is better. Not suer if Ribery is a better player either
And who said Bale is in his peak right now? Bale is 23, Hazard is 22. And right now Bale is better by a good margin. Tottenham are the better team and Bale is by far their best player ( he is singlehandily winning them so games ). Hazard is not Chelsea's most important player yet. Thats Mata.
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Old 04-01-2013, 05:46 AM   #4020
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Default Re: 2012-2013 English Premier League Thread (La Liga, Serie A, etc.)

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Originally Posted by The_Yearning
Lmao get real.

Ribery, Ronaldo, Ibra, Hazard, Pirlo, etc. are all better than him.
Ribery sucks now, Hazard isnt better and Im a massive homer, Ibra is pretty good but has a bad attitude, pirlo is good but not bale level. Only ronaldo and messi are his equals
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