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Old 01-17-2007, 12:24 PM   #16
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Legler is the biggest Nash groupie in the media. Dude has been riding his jock since he came to Phoenix.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:24 PM   #17
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He's a pretty poor 1 on 1 defender, but over the past 3 years, I can see a noticeable difference. He really does make an effort to play defense, and sometimes that extra effort he makes translates into some above average defense.

I do however, think that he is a decent team defender, whether it's trapping in the corner, or rotating when the ball is swung, and he's awesome at taking charges.

Calling him underrated as defender though....I'm not so sure about that. I guess if the criteria is based on him not making ANY effort to play defense, then sure, but he does try out there.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:25 PM   #18
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It should be noted that:

A. The Suns do have the 2nd best 3PT FG defense.

B. Opponents average only 18.6 assists against the Suns (6th best defensively) and thus the Suns have a + 8.3 advantage in that area (tops in the league)

Not to give all the credit to Nash (Bell and Barbosa are qulaity defenders) but it seems as though someone is keeping the opponent's PG in check if opponents generally have a poor passing (less fluid offense) against the Suns.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:28 PM   #19
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the argument i have is that he is taking a more talented team to a worse record than the mavs(yes i know they have the same amount of losses) without better statistics. that is not an mvp.

That can be a valid point, but not one I would subscribe to.

You can argue that Phoenix's starting lineup is better than Dallas' even though Marion has to have his points spoon fed to him.

But, Dallas still has a better team easily. For all that the Sun's players do (ignoring Nash), they have so many weaknesses that are hidden cause people are in awe all the time.

Dallas has more depth and have smarter players that now how to play their role much better than the Suns players do.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:29 PM   #20
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or it could be that their hyperathletic front court players keep people from finishing. it could also have something to do with marion playing passing lanes and things like that. Is nash an all time horrible defender? no. but hes not average either. hes the worst defender of the mvp candidates without question.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:30 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i seen hippos
That can be a valid point, but not one I would subscribe to.

You can argue that Phoenix's starting lineup is better than Dallas' even though Marion has to have his points spoon fed to him.

But, Dallas still has a better team easily. For all that the Sun's players do (ignoring Nash), they have so many weaknesses that are hidden cause people are in awe all the time.

Dallas has more depth and have smarter players that now how to play their role much better than the Suns players do.

I agree they're better, but not easily.

Phoenix has better depth and bench IMO, but Dallas is the far superior defensive and rebounding team.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:32 PM   #22
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How does Phoenix have more depth/better bench?
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:34 PM   #23
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are you seriously arguing the mavs talent vs the suns talent? Marion is so much better than the nash ******gers want to admit. he is the same player he was pre nash. The mavs have 3 bench players. thats it. the suns have Barbosa, thomas and jones. the mavs have george stack and buck. Im sorry but he definitely has more talent around him than dirk does. Do i think they will beat the mavs? No because of style of play and because i think dirk is better than nash.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:36 PM   #24
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Marion needs to be spoonfed.

You know Dallas has more players than that.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:36 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i seen hippos
How does Phoenix have more depth/better bench?
barbosa>stack James jones<George Thomas>buck. None of the other mavs bench players are important and they are phasing all of them out. One of the under mentioned stories of this year is how BAD Anthony johnson has been. He has been arguably the worst player in the nba this year which is why he is no longer in the rotation.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:37 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i seen hippos
Marion needs to be spoonfed.

You know Dallas has more players than that.
such as?

Btw on marion you know his scoring averages for the 3 years prior ot nash were 19, 21 and 19 and the 3 years with nash are 19 21 and 19 right? His rebounding has gone up a little do the more running but marion is an all star whether nash plays or not. Marion is a garbage man but he can get his points without nash.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:38 PM   #27
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And with a better than today Marbury.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:38 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raiderfan19
are you seriously arguing the mavs talent vs the suns talent? Marion is so much better than the nash ******gers want to admit. he is the same player he was pre nash. The mavs have 3 bench players. thats it. the suns have Barbosa, thomas and jones. the mavs have george stack and buck. Im sorry but he definitely has more talent around him than dirk does. Do i think they will beat the mavs? No because of style of play and because i think dirk is better than nash.
Correct.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:38 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by i seen hippos
How does Phoenix have more depth/better bench?

Suns have a lot of versatile guys that are capable of playing lots of positions. Diaw can go 1-5. Marion can go 3-5. Barbosa 1-2. Bell 2-3.

Barbosa is probably the 6th man of the year and provides a huge scoring spark. The Suns best post defender is Kurt Thomas and he can still score/rebound.

I think both teams are close with respect to depth/bench strength, but this year I think the Suns are slightly better.
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Old 01-17-2007, 12:39 PM   #30
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We'll see how deep that bench is now that Kurt is out 4-6 weeks. Dammit.
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