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Old 05-26-2012, 04:56 AM   #46
Rowe
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Default Re: Kyle Lowry: It's Either Me Or Dragic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IGOTGAME
wouldn't mind the Lakers picking up Wes Johnson...I think he has potential. Martel Webster could be helpful too. Derrick Williams would serve no purpose on this team because he doesn't know how to play basketball. He prob wouldn't even start.
Agreed.

They should just waive Derrick Williams or send him to the Knicks for Toney Douglas & the draft rights to Ahmad Nivins.
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Old 05-26-2012, 04:59 AM   #47
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Default Re: Kyle Lowry: It's Either Me Or Dragic.

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Originally Posted by Rowe
Right now you're pulling out all the stops to justify how Minnesota doesn't need Williams, how Jordan Hill is so much better than Williams, & how Hill would've been the #2 pick in the 2011 NBA Draft. Sure.

1)Minnesota does not need Derrick Williams. In fact, they could put any PF in the NBA in his position and not miss a beat. Let's remember Love is top 3 in the NBA in minutes per game.

2)I never said Jordan Hill is better than Derrick Williams. I never said Derrick Williams is better than Jordan Hill. I think they're a wash to be honest. That's why I said if Jordan Hill entered last year's draft out of college, he'd be right there with Williams because of how weak the draft was.

Would love to hear you try and debate against either of these points though
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:08 AM   #48
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Default Re: Kyle Lowry: It's Either Me Or Dragic.

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Originally Posted by ImmortalNemesis
Is sad that Lowry is acting this way. I thought he was better than Brooks. Brooks reacted the same way when Lowry took his starting spot. I had a small hope Houston could keep both PGs, guess that's over now. Houston will trade Lowry and Martin if they can. I wouldn't surprise me at all if Lowry, Martin, and Scola are gone by the start of the season.

Lowry used to be one of my favorite players, sad that it has to end this way.

I definitely get what your saying. It's dissapointing but completely understandable.

Dragic is in the best position, has proven himself as a starter and a durable one, while Lowry is also definitely starter quality, just not as durable and a tad older.

I'd keep the Dragon.

Fair enough to either of them, should be entering their prime, are both starters and worth some good coin, can't blame them to say it's me or him.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:09 AM   #49
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Default Re: Kyle Lowry: It's Either Me Or Dragic.

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Originally Posted by BallsOut
Williams is definitely not the focal point. In fact out of the 3 players the Lakers would be getting, he'd be third. Lowry is the focal point obviously after Sessions proved he is nothing more than a bench PG. Then Lakers obviously need a bench scorer in Beasley. To replace Gasol, I would like the Lakers to get a younger PF that can at least move quick laterally to guard the pick n roll and hustle and be active for rebounds. I think Williams can fill that need.

Well we've already gone over that Beasley can't be traded. He'll be a Free Agent this offseason regardless even if Minnesota gives him a QO or not.

So who else is LA supposed to be getting?

Also Derrick Williams is the complete opposite of what you're describing for a Forward. He is far from a "hustle player" who crashes the boards to make up for a lack of offensive game. He has an offensive game, just is trying to transition into playing on the wing full-time.

You're confusing him with Jordan Hill, who already plays for the Lakers. Williams is an athletic scoring Forward. He dropped 20/10 on the Lakers earlier in the season, I'm sure you remember that right? It was televised. Basically a less refined version of Antawn Jamison early in his career when he was still slashing to the basket and not roaming the perimeter.

I find it funny you'd want Derrick Williams considering he'd benefit greatly from playing PF instead of SF, and that Andrew Bynum is the perfect Center compliment to him on both ends of the floor.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:09 AM   #50
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Default Re: Kyle Lowry: It's Either Me Or Dragic.

Firstly, you might want to post the source of the CBS blog post form the Chron (written by Jonathan Feigen):


http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterocket...me-to-move-on/

And I've already posted this in the Rockets sub forum but nobody ever goes there


Anyway, HOW THE HELL DID THIS THREAD TURN INTO A LAKERS-WOLVES TRADE THREAD?!
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:11 AM   #51
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Default Re: Kyle Lowry: It's Either Me Or Dragic.

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Originally Posted by irondarts
That trade does not benefit the Wolves at all, maybe if it were only Beasley, the Wolves aren't going to trade a guy they took #2 overall a year after they drafted him, and they aren't going to trade both for Kevin Martin, come on man.

Who knows? The Heat traded Beasley who was a former #2 pick a season or two after he was drafted. Knicks traded Jordan Hill #8 pick a season after he was drafted. There are countless examples out there. I just saw his stats for the season, 8pts 5rbs 41% shooting in 21 minutes. Not terrible, but not good either. Certainly not typical of #2 draft picks.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:15 AM   #52
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Default Re: Kyle Lowry: It's Either Me Or Dragic.

Derrick Williams isn't that good. I still can't believe the T-Wolves refused to trade him for Pau Gasol straight up.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:15 AM   #53
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Default Re: Kyle Lowry: It's Either Me Or Dragic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brantonli
Firstly, you might want to post the source of the CBS blog post form the Chron (written by Jonathan Feigen):


http://blog.chron.com/ultimaterocket...me-to-move-on/

And I've already posted this in the Rockets sub forum but nobody ever goes there


Anyway, HOW THE HELL DID THIS THREAD TURN INTO A LAKERS-WOLVES TRADE THREAD?!

As a well known Rockets fan, what are your thoughts on this proposed 3-team trade?

Rockets send: Lowry, Martin
Rockets receive: Gasol, Blake

Wolves send: Williams, Beasley
Wolves receive: Martin

Lakers send: Gasol, Blake
Receive: Lowry, Williams, Beasley
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:16 AM   #54
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Default Re: Kyle Lowry: It's Either Me Or Dragic.

i'll take dragic, better PG imo. but lowry is the better player.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:19 AM   #55
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Default Re: Kyle Lowry: It's Either Me Or Dragic.

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Originally Posted by Rowe
Well we've already gone over that Beasley can't be traded. He'll be a Free Agent this offseason regardless even if Minnesota gives him a QO or not.

So who else is LA supposed to be getting?

Also Derrick Williams is the complete opposite of what you're describing for a Forward. He is far from a "hustle player" who crashes the boards to make up for a lack of offensive game. He has an offensive game, just is trying to transition into playing on the wing full-time.

You're confusing him with Jordan Hill, who already plays for the Lakers. Williams is an athletic scoring Forward. He dropped 20/10 on the Lakers earlier in the season, I'm sure you remember that right? It was televised. Basically a less refined version of Antawn Jamison early in his career when he was still slashing to the basket and not roaming the perimeter.

I find it funny you'd want Derrick Williams considering he'd benefit greatly from playing PF instead of SF, and that Andrew Bynum is the perfect Center compliment to him on both ends of the floor.

Damn Williams is only 6'8? That's pretty undersized for a PF, at least what the Lakers have been accustomed to. If he could shoot jumpers, he'd be a good fit next to Bynum, because that's basically what Gasol was relagated to after Bynum took sole possession of the low block in the paint this season. I thought he was at least a good defensive player like a Verajao type, but if he's a less refined version of Antwan Jamison, no thanks. Jamison couldn't play a lick of defense against anybody.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:22 AM   #56
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Default Re: Kyle Lowry: It's Either Me Or Dragic.

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Originally Posted by Rowe
Well we've already gone over that Beasley can't be traded. He'll be a Free Agent this offseason regardless even if Minnesota gives him a QO or not.

If true, this kinda bums me out. Beasley would've been the perfect bench player for the Lakers.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:23 AM   #57
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Default Re: Kyle Lowry: It's Either Me Or Dragic.

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Originally Posted by BallsOut
1)Minnesota does not need Derrick Williams. In fact, they could put any PF in the NBA in his position and not miss a beat. Let's remember Love is top 3 in the NBA in minutes per game.

Yes, they do need Derrick Williams. They need him to continue to develop his perimeter skills so that he can play on the floor with Kevin Love as a SF. Its not just improving ballhandling but also being able to be a solid defensive player when guarding wings. Thats the difference that seperates Williams from being a perpetual 6th Man who comes off the bench for maybe 10-12 PPG or a guy who could average 16-20 PPG. This is a team that badly needs not only talent, but another scorer to go to outside of Kevin Love.

Quote:
2)I never said Jordan Hill is better than Derrick Williams. I never said Derrick Williams is better than Jordan Hill. I think they're a wash to be honest. That's why I said if Jordan Hill entered last year's draft out of college, he'd be right there with Williams because of how weak the draft was.

So 1 year defines his career, huh?

Jordan Hill would not have been up there with Derrick Williams. He was basically a 1 year wonder in college and he just happened to measure out at 6'10 and get the GM's attention. There wasn't any scouting service that projected him to be more than a role player on this level, but at least the Knicks got to be the ones who found that out. Season to season comparisons with him & Williams go completely in Williams favor. Any team in their right mind would take Williams over Hill.

1 guy has a limited upside but could be a cheap bench player and the other guy is equally productive but his upside is unlimited as he develops his perimeter game. Makes perfect sense.

The draft was weak as a far as guys who would immediately be a "Franchise player", but there were plenty of talented players in the 2011 draft who many thought would become good starters in the NBA and a few maybe could sneak into an All Star game.

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Would love to hear you try and debate against either of these points though
I did.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:30 AM   #58
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Default Re: Kyle Lowry: It's Either Me Or Dragic.

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Originally Posted by BallsOut
beat you to it

I prefer Williams over Scola though. I don't like Scola's contract, and Williams is younger with more room to develop. Plus, how could Houston say no to a Dragic/Scola/Gasol combination they'd be like the all-star Euroleague team of the NBA
he probably has the best contract in the nba right now
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:33 AM   #59
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Default Re: Kyle Lowry: It's Either Me Or Dragic.

Lowry is a highly overrated PG. He takes random shots, can become a little too wild at times, and doesn't play smart all the time. Not a PG you want running your ball club...
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:33 AM   #60
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Default Re: Kyle Lowry: It's Either Me Or Dragic.

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Originally Posted by BallsOut
Damn Williams is only 6'8? That's pretty undersized for a PF, at least what the Lakers have been accustomed to. If he could shoot jumpers, he'd be a good fit next to Bynum, because that's basically what Gasol was relagated to after Bynum took sole possession of the low block in the paint this season. I thought he was at least a good defensive player like a Verajao type, but if he's a less refined version of Antwan Jamison, no thanks. Jamison couldn't play a lick of defense against anybody.
He's undersized at 6'8 but he's a very good athlete.

Williams isn't a consistent shooter at this point in his career, but nearly 1/4 of his shots were 3 point attempts. Mainly because the T'Wolves have him out on the perimeter at the 3. Assuming he continues to improve from that area then he offers the true Inside/Out threat that Brown was trying to get out of a Gasol/Bynum combo. He'd definetly be productive there at his natural position of PF. Nowhere near as skilled as Gasol, but he's athletic and knows how to drive to the basket and draw fouls.

On defense yeah he is Jamison-like or better yet Jamison-lite.

Doesn't do much for post defense, espescially with an average wingspan.
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