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Old 06-02-2012, 10:55 PM   #31
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Default Re: A new trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by BallsOut
I was referring to Michael Beasley, not Josh Smith. Let's be honest here, the Lakers aren't going to convince Atlanta to swap Josh Smith for 32 year old Scola and his ugly contract.

there is really no interest in Beasley...we can have him for Mini MLE...thats my 2 cents

I am in no way going to trade this much Out: Gasol, Blake, 8.9 mill Dallas TPE
In: Lowry, Beasley (S&T) and Millicic (Expirer)

just to get lowry/beasy/millicic


so that going out salary: 23 + 9 = 32mil
coming back salary = 10.9(lowry + Millicic)
Left = 21mil

how much are you planning to pay to Beasy??? even if its a S&T ...

I dont think he is more than max 5mil/yr player
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Old 06-02-2012, 11:29 PM   #32
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Default Re: A new trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers_Kobe_Fan
there is really no interest in Beasley...we can have him for Mini MLE...thats my 2 cents

I am in no way going to trade this much Out: Gasol, Blake, 8.9 mill Dallas TPE
In: Lowry, Beasley (S&T) and Millicic (Expirer)

just to get lowry/beasy/millicic


so that going out salary: 23 + 9 = 32mil
coming back salary = 10.9(lowry + Millicic)
Left = 21mil

how much are you planning to pay to Beasy??? even if its a S&T ...

I dont think he is more than max 5mil/yr player

The 9mill trade exception allows the Lakers to take back up to 9mill less in salary. So they only need to get somebody with 3 mill back. Outgoing is actually 23 mill. Incoming would be 11 (lowry + millicic) + however much they pay for beasley.

I don't think the Lakers can get him for the mini MLE.

I would give him a similar deal that was given to Artest a few seasons ago, 3 years at 6 mill a year with a player option for a year after that. Basically slightly more lucrative than the full MLE that other teams have, minus one year. Only teams under the cap can offer him the MLE though I believe, and I think those teams aren't anywhere near being contenders which is a reason why he would prefer this deal.
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:13 AM   #33
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Default Re: A new trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by BallsOut
The 9mill trade exception allows the Lakers to take back up to 9mill less in salary. So they only need to get somebody with 3 mill back. Outgoing is actually 23 mill. Incoming would be 11 (lowry + millicic) + however much they pay for beasley.

I don't think the Lakers can get him for the mini MLE

I would give him a similar deal that was given to Artest a few seasons ago, 3 years at 6 mill a year with a player option for a year after that. Basically slightly more lucrative than the full MLE that other teams have, minus one year. Only teams under the cap can offer him the MLE though I believe, and I think those teams aren't anywhere near being contenders which is a reason why he would prefer this deal.

how??? the TPE can be traded only in itself...it cannot be combined with anything else

it doesnt mean you can get back 9mil less in salaries

After Luke Walton, Blake, Artest I dont think Mitch is going to give anybody 5 year deals with player option after 3. I think they will 3 year deals to role players...and if they do give them 5 years..I expect them to have team option after 3 and not player option

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Old 06-03-2012, 12:19 AM   #34
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Default Re: A new trade

Not bad, I would take it. But I do like Luis Scola though, not flashy, but has all the fundamentals down, pretty good post game, good rebounder, and most importantly, a hustle guy. He dives for every lose ball, never gives up on a play, and brings energy. If Jordan Hill isn't returning, I'd love to have Scola.

One thing I don't get though, why does Houston want Pau Gasol? I thought they were rebuilding.
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:53 AM   #35
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Default Re: A new trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by BallsOut
I'm not up to par on the S&T issue either. Could you read up on that and let us know if Beasley could be included in a S&T deal in the new CBA?

Any team that is paying the luxury tax cannot take on a player by sign and trade or extend and trade. There's no fudging on this, no hidden loopholes. That door has been closed tight until the Lakers get under the tax or a new CBA in 8 years is negotiated

They cannot bid on players off the waiver wire. In reality that's not 100% true they can bid but if any team not paying tax makes a bid even if it's for a lesser amount than what the Lakers bid that team gets the player. SO for all purposes the Lakers cannot make bids on players on the wire. This is how they lost out on Jeremy Lin, Billups and others this past year.

The Lakers do not have a full mid level exception they have half of it and can offer only half the contract length.

The Lakers do not have the Bi Annual to use as long as they are above the tax

Non salary teams have unlimited minimum contracts at their disposal to fill out a roster, tax teams have 2 or 3, I forget.

Here's a kick in the gut as if all the above isn't enough. RFAs, Lakers cannot match salaries on their own RFA's or players with early bird rights, they can only go as high as the Mini Mid Level where other teams can offer up to the full Mid Level. The ramifications of this are astounding. Imagine they draft a kid and he's the next Michael Jordan. From day one he's clearly the Air to the throne. 3 years later he's on top of the world after leading the Lakers to a 2 peat. As a tax team the only contract they could offer him as a RFA is a 2 year deal at 3 million per while some other team can swoop in and offer him double the amount with annual raises for 5 years.

That's why I have said in other threads the most important thing the Lakers can do this off season is shed salary, plug some holes, keep the core. If you can move a big contract for a couple kids then do it, otherwise they'll be stuck picking up table scraps and having to take it in the shorts on every trade because teams know the Lakers and teams like them can really reload only through trades.

The only silver lining or bone thrown at tax paying teams concerns matching salaries, They can send out more than they take on. They could theoretically send Bynum and his huge contract to Washington for Kyrie Irving and his rookie scale contract in a straight trade.

They cannot bring in more salary in a trade than they send out.

This is why all the talk of the Lakers missing out on this guy or that guy early in the season was just people talking out their ass and having no idea how the NBA works. All those amnestied players were never even there for the Lakers to make a run at. All those trade rumors that never came to fruition and the following front office bashing because "we could of had that guy" was just ignorance. This is why letting Odom go when even a hint of something being wrong showed up was a great move.

You're going to see moves that look 1000% insane the next couple years, that defy logic but if you know the CBA and how it ties the Lakers hands at this time then it all becomes clearer.

Last edited by BØBØ : 06-03-2012 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 06-03-2012, 01:40 AM   #36
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Default Re: A new trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaraw08
Some guys here talk like Scola is 45 yrs old, Geez, he is 32.
There are 2 other legit concerns tho, esp 3 yrs left where he would be paid like 10.5 mil/yr and his relatively low rebs/game.
But the last 3 yrs, he averaged around 17 pts/game at a respectable 50% from the field. The guy is alse tough enough to hold his ground and play good defense inside.
A quick sample of the head to head duel
vs Pau, in 14 games, Scola averaged 17.5pts, 7 rebs at a good 60%FG.
11 games vs Boozer he averaged 16pts, 8.5 rebs at 52%FG
7 games vs Bosh, he averaged 15pts, 9.7 rebs at 52%FG
18 games vs Duncan, 15pts, 7.5 rebs at 50%Fg, Tim averaged 18pts at a low 45%,
So it's not like he lords it over bad players and he cowers and struggles with good ones. BTW, He is not the focal point of the offense, He has an ave of 13 shots/game.
Josh Smith has a career FG% of a LOW 46%, again bec of his STUBBORNESS of taking the low 3pt shot where he ave. 28%. 7 of his 8 years, he FAILED to hit atleast 50% from the field, 6 of 8 years he hit BELOW 48%
11 games vs Duncan, Josh hit a paltry 9pts, 6 rebs at 28%Fg

Going back to his 10.5 Mil/yr salary
Boozer is getting 15 mil/yr,
Duncan at 21.3
Pau at 19 mil
Bosh at around 19.5
Marc Gasol around 14 mil.
Pls also bear in mind that the suggestion is not a 1 on 1 trade with Pau but ANOTHER player like Lowry who fill up a great need.


Tam, I'm not trying to rip Scola. I like him (he especially seems to play well against us). If I could do a Lowery/Scola for Pau deal, at this point, I would do it if there was no better option.
Do my Ariza deal (I'm really pushing that aren't I?), then resign Sessions and Hill. Look at someone like Gerald Green with the MMLE, and take a chance on Lamar with a vet min.

1- Lowery
2- Kobe
3- Ariza
4- Scola
5- Bynum

Bench:
Sessions
Green
Odom
Hill

We'd be a better team.

My point was I would take Smoove over Scola, as I think every GM in the league would at this point. He is a monster defensively, a monster.
He has an amazing year and seems to really be starting to get it.
Scola is past his prime, has knee issues, doesn't play much D, and is slow.
Having him come back as part of a deal to get Lowery wouldn't be so bad though. He could certainly play a part.
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:11 AM   #37
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Default Re: A new trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster89
Tam, I'm not trying to rip Scola. I like him (he especially seems to play well against us). If I could do a Lowery/Scola for Pau deal, at this point, I would do it if there was no better option.
Do my Ariza deal (I'm really pushing that aren't I?), then resign Sessions and Hill. Look at someone like Gerald Green with the MMLE, and take a chance on Lamar with a vet min.

1- Lowery
2- Kobe
3- Ariza
4- Scola
5- Bynum

Bench:
Sessions
Green
Odom
Hill

We'd be a better team.

My point was I would take Smoove over Scola, as I think every GM in the league would at this point. He is a monster defensively, a monster.
He has an amazing year and seems to really be starting to get it.
Scola is past his prime, has knee issues, doesn't play much D, and is slow.
Having him come back as part of a deal to get Lowery wouldn't be so bad though. He could certainly play a part.

It's refreshing to debate with a classy guy like you who don't call me clueless, implying that Im not smart enough to understand his point etc.
Josh is one of the best shot blockers/weakside defenders in the league.
But a quick look at his head to head duels
16 games vs KG, Garnett averaged 20 pts, 58%FG
13 games vs Boozer, Carlos ave 15pts, 51%FG
26 games, Bosh ave. 20pts 49%
If only he can realize that it's very important that he needs to absolutely abandon the 3pt shot and instead take more higher % jump hooks. Then Im on board.
About Ariza, Yes, I like Trevor too.
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Old 06-03-2012, 12:18 PM   #38
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Default Re: A new trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by tamaraw08
It's refreshing to debate with a classy guy like you who don't call me clueless, implying that Im not smart enough to understand his point etc.
Josh is one of the best shot blockers/weakside defenders in the league.
But a quick look at his head to head duels
16 games vs KG, Garnett averaged 20 pts, 58%FG
13 games vs Boozer, Carlos ave 15pts, 51%FG
26 games, Bosh ave. 20pts 49%
If only he can realize that it's very important that he needs to absolutely abandon the 3pt shot and instead take more higher % jump hooks. Then Im on board.
About Ariza, Yes, I like Trevor too.
Or work on his 3 point shot. It's a great tool to have in the arsenal. Even a hit or miss 35% from 3 is enough to open up the floor for him. He's not so big or powerful he can be rely on an inside game alone
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Old 06-03-2012, 02:08 PM   #39
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Default Re: A new trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by BØBØ
Any team that is paying the luxury tax cannot take on a player by sign and trade or extend and trade. There's no fudging on this, no hidden loopholes. That door has been closed tight until the Lakers get under the tax or a new CBA in 8 years is negotiated

They cannot bid on players off the waiver wire. In reality that's not 100% true they can bid but if any team not paying tax makes a bid even if it's for a lesser amount than what the Lakers bid that team gets the player. SO for all purposes the Lakers cannot make bids on players on the wire. This is how they lost out on Jeremy Lin, Billups and others this past year.

The Lakers do not have a full mid level exception they have half of it and can offer only half the contract length.

The Lakers do not have the Bi Annual to use as long as they are above the tax

Non salary teams have unlimited minimum contracts at their disposal to fill out a roster, tax teams have 2 or 3, I forget.

Here's a kick in the gut as if all the above isn't enough. RFAs, Lakers cannot match salaries on their own RFA's or players with early bird rights, they can only go as high as the Mini Mid Level where other teams can offer up to the full Mid Level. The ramifications of this are astounding. Imagine they draft a kid and he's the next Michael Jordan. From day one he's clearly the Air to the throne. 3 years later he's on top of the world after leading the Lakers to a 2 peat. As a tax team the only contract they could offer him as a RFA is a 2 year deal at 3 million per while some other team can swoop in and offer him double the amount with annual raises for 5 years.

That's why I have said in other threads the most important thing the Lakers can do this off season is shed salary, plug some holes, keep the core. If you can move a big contract for a couple kids then do it, otherwise they'll be stuck picking up table scraps and having to take it in the shorts on every trade because teams know the Lakers and teams like them can really reload only through trades.

The only silver lining or bone thrown at tax paying teams concerns matching salaries, They can send out more than they take on. They could theoretically send Bynum and his huge contract to Washington for Kyrie Irving and his rookie scale contract in a straight trade.

They cannot bring in more salary in a trade than they send out.

This is why all the talk of the Lakers missing out on this guy or that guy early in the season was just people talking out their ass and having no idea how the NBA works. All those amnestied players were never even there for the Lakers to make a run at. All those trade rumors that never came to fruition and the following front office bashing because "we could of had that guy" was just ignorance. This is why letting Odom go when even a hint of something being wrong showed up was a great move.

You're going to see moves that look 1000% insane the next couple years, that defy logic but if you know the CBA and how it ties the Lakers hands at this time then it all becomes clearer.


Classic post... This is why i still hang around he lakers forum.. Sometimes even the so called experts don't know sh1t about the new cba
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Old 06-03-2012, 05:13 PM   #40
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Default Re: A new trade

Thanks BOBO for the clarification. So I spent about an hour working up another trade scenario. Sorry for hijacking the thread. I figure I might as well just post it here. Tell me what you guys think.

Lakers send: Gasol, Blake, 2012 60th pick
Receive: Lowry, Gibson, Hamilton, Butler

Rockets send: Lowry, Martin, 2012 16th pick, Patterson
Receive: Gasol, Blake, Bulls 2012 29th pick, Lakers 2012 60th pick

Bulls send: Gibson, Hamilton, 2012 29th pick, Butler
Receive: Martin, 2012 Rockets 16th pick, Patterson

Bulls:
PG: Rose/Watson/Lucas
SG: Martin/Brewer
SF: Deng/Korver
PF: Boozer/Patterson
C: Noah/Asik

Rockets:
PG: Dragic/Blake
SG: Lee/Williams
SF: Parsons/Budinger
PF: Scola/Camby
C: Gasol/Dalembert

Lakers (sign Odom with mini MLE, Barnes, Hinrich, Rasheed Wallace with veteran's minimums, waive Eyenga and Butler):
PG: Lowry/Sessions/Hinrich
SG: Bryant/Hamilton/Goudelock
SF: MWP/Ebanks/Barnes
PF: Gibson/Odom/McRoberts
C: Bynum/Hill/Wallace

Last edited by BallsOut : 06-03-2012 at 06:46 PM.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:21 PM   #41
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Default Re: A new trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by BallsOut
Thanks BOBO for the clarification. So I spent about an hour working up another trade scenario. Sorry for hijacking the thread. I figure I might as well just post it here. Tell me what you guys think.

Lakers send: Gasol, Blake, 2012 60th pick
Receive: Lowry, Gibson, Hamilton, Butler

Rockets send: Lowry, Martin, 2012 16th pick, Patterson
Receive: Gasol, Blake, Bulls 2012 29th pick

Bulls send: Gibson, Hamilton, 2012 29th pick, Butler
Receive: Martin, 2012 Rockets 16th pick, Patterson

Bulls:
PG: Rose/Watson/Lucas
SG: Martin/Brewer
SF: Deng/Korver
PF: Boozer/Patterson
C: Noah/Asik

Rockets:
PG: Dragic/Blake
SG: Lee/Williams
SF: Parsons/Budinger
PF: Scola/Camby
C: Gasol/Dalembert

Lakers (sign Odom with mini MLE, Barnes, Hinrich, Rasheed Wallace with veteran's minimums, waive Eyenga and Butler):
PG: Lowry/Sessions/Hinrich
SG: Bryant/Hamilton/Goudelock
SF: MWP/Ebanks/Barnes
PF: Gibson/Odom/McRoberts
C: Bynum/Hill/Wallace
What you should do when you do a trade proposal is a quick estimate on the monetary effects the trade has. Does it shed salary or add salary. Keep in mind the Lakers will look to improve without taking back too much salary.
Hoops world has decent simplified salary numbers, for more indepth breakdown most writers or NBA researchers use http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/index.html . Pat stays on top of this info and updates throughout the season and her records go back to 1993

Last edited by BØBØ : 06-03-2012 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 06-03-2012, 06:50 PM   #42
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Default Re: A new trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by BØBØ
What you should do when you do a trade proposal is a quick estimate on the monetary effects the trade has. Does it shed salary or add salary. Keep in mind the Lakers will look to improve without taking back too much salary.
Hoops world has decent simplified salary numbers, for more indepth breakdown most writers or NBA researchers use http://www.eskimo.com/~pbender/index.html . Pat stays on top of this info and updates throughout the season and her records go back to 1993

I did the math roughly. The Lakers would be sending out about 23 mill and taking back 13mill. Is this possible for them to do in the new CBA? If I do this on the trade machine it rejects it.
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Old 06-03-2012, 07:52 PM   #43
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Default Re: A new trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by BallsOut
I did the math roughly. The Lakers would be sending out about 23 mill and taking back 13mill. Is this possible for them to do in the new CBA? If I do this on the trade machine it rejects it.
Trade machine is kinda whack, it has never accounted for all the varibles. Do the numbers yourself. A quick glance tells me The Bulls are taking on too much salary, They're over the cap so they cannot take on more salary than they send out, There's a slight cushion built in but this looks like it would exceed that
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:08 PM   #44
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Default Re: A new trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by BallsOut
Thanks BOBO for the clarification. So I spent about an hour working up another trade scenario. Sorry for hijacking the thread. I figure I might as well just post it here. Tell me what you guys think.

Lakers send: Gasol, Blake, 2012 60th pick
Receive: Lowry, Gibson, Hamilton, Butler

Rockets send: Lowry, Martin, 2012 16th pick, Patterson
Receive: Gasol, Blake, Bulls 2012 29th pick, Lakers 2012 60th pick

Bulls send: Gibson, Hamilton, 2012 29th pick, Butler
Receive: Martin, 2012 Rockets 16th pick, Patterson

Bulls:
PG: Rose/Watson/Lucas
SG: Martin/Brewer
SF: Deng/Korver
PF: Boozer/Patterson
C: Noah/Asik

Rockets:
PG: Dragic/Blake
SG: Lee/Williams
SF: Parsons/Budinger
PF: Scola/Camby
C: Gasol/Dalembert

Lakers (sign Odom with mini MLE, Barnes, Hinrich, Rasheed Wallace with veteran's minimums, waive Eyenga and Butler):
PG: Lowry/Sessions/Hinrich
SG: Bryant/Hamilton/Goudelock
SF: MWP/Ebanks/Barnes
PF: Gibson/Odom/McRoberts
C: Bynum/Hill/Wallace

Man Ballsout...your trade proposals are getting pathetic by the hour...

1st you want to sign Rasheed Wallace??? lo he has been retired for 2 years

atleast do your homework before posting trades...Butler is a very defensive minded guard which the lakers can use....

hamilton @5mil is useless backing up....

overall reaction to your trade ..... ....
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Old 06-03-2012, 08:16 PM   #45
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Default Re: A new trade

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakers_Kobe_Fan
Man Ballsout...your trade proposals are getting pathetic by the hour...

1st you want to sign Rasheed Wallace??? lo he has been retired for 2 years

atleast do your homework before posting trades...Butler is a very defensive minded guard which the lakers can use....

hamilton @5mil is useless backing up....

overall reaction to your trade ..... ....

Hamilton last season: 11.6pts, 3ast, 2.4 rbs on 45% fg and 37% 3pt in 25 minutes per game.

That's probably more contribution than the the entire laker's bench the previous season combined!

Do your research before overreacting.
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