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Old 06-11-2012, 10:25 AM   #31
Jballer
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Default Re: Raptors Shopping 8th Overall Pick for Established Small Forward

The most disturbing part of this rumor is :

1) We would package Jose without a bone fide PG coming back. I understand Jose is a middling level talent PG but we dont have anything behind him that makes me think we have the guy to run the O.... I am not yet sold on Bayliss being the answer...too many question about his decision making.

2) We would package Ed Davis - a young talented 4 with upside. Now I am under no illusion that Ed is All star - but I was really looking forward to seeing what Ed and Val can develope together in terms of paint chemistry. The two might end up being monsters is they work closely together. We have better options to trade from our big man depth obvioulsy including Barges and Amir.

Gay or Iggy is a wash.

Its not what they bring over 2 -3 years (which at the very least is improvement period) its what we send to them in exchange. We are deep in big men - but ironically Ed Davis is the one I would prefer to keep.

Why the 8th draft out only... I would pressume we would get their draft back ! In which case the rationale for Igg is even better as we could likely get a PG at Philly's spot (Rivers for example)
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:15 PM   #32
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Default Re: Raptors Shopping 8th Overall Pick for Established Small Forward

Trade everything but Val, Bargs and Bayless to get Iggy and Gay.

Valanciunas
Bargnani
Gay
Iguodala
Bayless

^ That's a decent playoff team in the East with good core pieces to build on.
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Old 06-11-2012, 01:40 PM   #33
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Default Re: Raptors Shopping 8th Overall Pick for Established Small Forward

I agree with keeping Val, Bargs, Bayless. Derozan maybe to, but there is better young talent out there. Keep everyone in their mid 20's and below. Everyone else should go since this team should suck one more year and rebuild further. Instead, we'll probably be competing for the 8th seed soon and get wiped in the first round as usual if we make it. Can't wait.
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Old 06-11-2012, 11:33 PM   #34
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Default Re: Raptors Shopping 8th Overall Pick for Established Small Forward

I've been on the "let's not mortgage our future for a temp fix" train for as long as I can remember, hell I was the conductor at one point. But after 4 seasons of no playoffs and zero improvements to our roster during that span, I realized that the flip side of that coin is becoming the pre-Paul/Griffin LA Clippers. A team that sucks perennially for many many years and bases all hope of improvement on drafting the next NBA superstar rather than aggressively picking up talent piece by piece and having the draft as a supplement to that talent rather than a hit or miss be all end all. If Val doesn't work out (and I hope he does) where does that leave us? And even if he does work out and becomes a solid rotational player but not an all-star level guy, does it help having another side dish with no main course?
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Old 06-12-2012, 09:22 AM   #35
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Default Re: Raptors Shopping 8th Overall Pick for Established Small Forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes15
I've been on the "let's not mortgage our future for a temp fix" train for as long as I can remember, hell I was the conductor at one point. But after 4 seasons of no playoffs and zero improvements to our roster during that span, I realized that the flip side of that coin is becoming the pre-Paul/Griffin LA Clippers. A team that sucks perennially for many many years and bases all hope of improvement on drafting the next NBA superstar rather than aggressively picking up talent piece by piece and having the draft as a supplement to that talent rather than a hit or miss be all end all. If Val doesn't work out (and I hope he does) where does that leave us? And even if he does work out and becomes a solid rotational player but not an all-star level guy, does it help having another side dish with no main course?

But look at the clippers now. All because they drafted blake.
Obviously the aim is to draft better players sooner. We don't need a number 1. Just a couple top 5's. You also don't have to suck to do it. You can acquire picks through trade like cleveland did. They got Irving for Baron Davis! That is a crafty (and lucky) GM. But there are lots of examples. The raps should be looking to acquire first rounders not trade them away. It doesn't have to be a first rounder this year either. Trade Jose for someones nightmare contract and a number 1 in 2013. It's too late now but why not approach Washington last year with a deal for Rashard Lewis and their 2012 pick? Now we would have #3 and #8. That is how you rebuild.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:33 AM   #36
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Default Re: Raptors Shopping 8th Overall Pick for Established Small Forward

Why would Bayless be considered a keeper? Talk about middling talent with little or no chance at getting better.
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Old 06-12-2012, 10:33 AM   #37
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Default Re: Raptors Shopping 8th Overall Pick for Established Small Forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluerap
But look at the clippers now. All because they drafted blake.
Obviously the aim is to draft better players sooner. We don't need a number 1. Just a couple top 5's. You also don't have to suck to do it. You can acquire picks through trade like cleveland did. They got Irving for Baron Davis! That is a crafty (and lucky) GM. But there are lots of examples. The raps should be looking to acquire first rounders not trade them away. It doesn't have to be a first rounder this year either. Trade Jose for someones nightmare contract and a number 1 in 2013. It's too late now but why not approach Washington last year with a deal for Rashard Lewis and their 2012 pick? Now we would have #3 and #8. That is how you rebuild.

very well said. I completely agree. If we are going to rebuild via the draft then we need to maximize our opportunities. We can't trade away our drafts. We need to do OKC or the Cavs have recently done. Trade our so called 'assets' for draft picks. Try to have two top 10 picks. I am sure there are many teams out there that would love to get a shot at Calderon or bargnani while giving us round one picks in return along with other young players.

We should not be thinking about trading our draft picks for other established players. Those established players will leave us and wont commit close to 7 years that drafted players might.
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Old 06-12-2012, 12:51 PM   #38
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Default Re: Raptors Shopping 8th Overall Pick for Established Small Forward

Maybe this is just a bit of frustration, and perhaps my thoughts will gradually change. But as of now...

I think the issue is that Raptors' Management knows the team will still have support from it's fan-base and the media if it continues to put out an average product.

Our team has only been competitive twice in our history (early 2000s with VC, and mid 2000s with bosh). Us competing for the 8th playoff spot might be a more marketable plot-line to the fan-base.

Whatever we do in this draft, I think it will be to preserve our mediocrity.
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:03 PM   #39
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Default Re: Raptors Shopping 8th Overall Pick for Established Small Forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by bada bing
very well said. I completely agree.... snip.....
We should not be thinking about trading our draft picks for other established players. Those established players will leave us and wont commit close to 7 years that drafted players might.

I also agree unless we get a 2 for 1 deal... I would be happy with that.

i.e. Toronto swaps 8 plus i.e Jose Calderon plus cash to Houston for Kyle Lowry - the 14th and 16th pick in the draft...

The talent in the middle will certainly add long term development and pressure on Bayliss Derozan and Joe Johnson to step up. Lowry fills a need. Terrence Jones and Austin Rivers on this roster seems to me to be a "better on the whole" compared to " Rudy Gay plus 2nd rounder"

If Val / Barges "EuroTowers" develop chemistry......

Lowry might be enough to make the playoffs as a 7/8 seed in the east. Making the playoffs this year is obviously very important to MLSE Management (BC included) - so assume that a push to add a vet is going to come at "some cost"

Last edited by Jballer : 06-12-2012 at 03:09 PM.
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:27 PM   #40
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Default Re: Raptors Shopping 8th Overall Pick for Established Small Forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jballer
I also agree unless we get a 2 for 1 deal... I would be happy with that.

i.e. Toronto swaps 8 plus i.e Jose Calderon plus cash to Houston for Kyle Lowry - the 14th and 16th pick in the draft...

The talent in the middle will certainly add long term development and pressure on Bayliss Derozan and Joe Johnson to step up. Lowry fills a need. Terrence Jones and Austin Rivers on this roster seems to me to be a "better on the whole" compared to " Rudy Gay plus 2nd rounder"

If Val / Barges "EuroTowers" develop chemistry......

Lowry might be enough to make the playoffs as a 7/8 seed in the east. Making the playoffs this year is obviously very important to MLSE Management (BC included) - so assume that a push to add a vet is going to come at "some cost"

I totally missed that trade!
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:08 PM   #41
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Default Re: Raptors Shopping 8th Overall Pick for Established Small Forward

Couldn't disagree more. If our asset happened to be a top 5 pick in a deep draft, then by all means we keep him and see what we've got. If ou r asset is an 8-14 pick in a draft where everything outside of the top 5 is a crap shoot, hell yeah i'd trade that pick for an established vet in his mid 20's. Not saying Gay specifically but in general.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:58 PM   #42
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Default Re: Raptors Shopping 8th Overall Pick for Established Small Forward

8th pick in this draft is not like other drafts. Any player in the top 10 could easily be a top 5 pick in other drafts (because of the lockout). Jarred Sulinger and Perry Jones (there were others too I believe) were both ranked in the top 5 for last years draft before they withdrew.

Last edited by bluerap : 06-12-2012 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:58 PM   #43
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Default Re: Raptors Shopping 8th Overall Pick for Established Small Forward

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluerap
8th pick in this draft is not like other drafts. Any player in the top 10 could easily be a top 5 pick in other drafts (because of the lockout). Jarred Sulinger and Perry Jones (there were others too I believe) were both ranked in the top 5 for last years draft before they withdrew.
I know that anything can happen but I don't thing Sullinger makes it all the way down to the 8th pick. And even if he did, do you really think BC is even going to take it into consideration drafting him with Val coming over? It would make no sense unless he suddenly overnight had a major change of heart and was willing to trade Bargnani. As for P. Jones, that statement is very debatable. A lot of mock drafts even have him outside of the top 10. And it also presents the same issue. Would OUR team be looking for a PF when we essentially have 3 of them already in Ed Davis, Bargnani, and Amir Johnson?
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:38 AM   #44
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Default Re: Raptors Shopping 8th Overall Pick for Established Small Forward

Rumors are going out that Raptors are getting Deng...

Please Baby Jesus, let this be a lie! (And I'm a big Deng fan)
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Old 06-13-2012, 12:49 AM   #45
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Default Re: Raptors Shopping 8th Overall Pick for Established Small Forward

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Originally Posted by BoogieWoogieMan
Rumors are going out that Raptors are getting Deng...

Please Baby Jesus, let this be a lie! (And I'm a big Deng fan)

Where did you hear this?
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