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Old 01-20-2007, 04:46 PM   #121
West-Side
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Why is that you always love to highlite how Dirk burned Kobe or how Wade burned Kobe....but how come none of you jackasses step up and actually notice how well Kobe SHUT Wade down the other night in the 4th...Wade couldn't get nothing going, throwing bricks left & right all 4th quarter, but no one ever mentions those things...atleast Kobe actually puts in the effort on defense, Nash, Dirk or Wade never do sh*t on defense, and they're the front runners for MVP right? Dirk & Nash ain't more valuable then Kobe...Kobe doesn't have Marion/Amare/Barbosa/Bell/Diaw/Thomas or Howard/Terry/Harris/Stackhouse/Diop...Dirk doesn't even need to put up great numbers for his team to have the best record in the league because he has amazing players on his team already who are getting so under-rated....and Nash is a joke of an MVP, I'm sick of hearing about him...GREAT point guard, the nicest guy in the league but is also in the BEST position in this league...he doesn't offer a team any defense or rebounding but he's a great shooter and a great passer...and that's exactly what Phoenix need...both those team would make the playoffs without Dirk and Nash...LA wouldn't, in the west.
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Old 01-20-2007, 04:53 PM   #122
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no, the suns and mavs wouldnt make the playoffs without their superstars, they have nice rosters but they play like shiiit when nash and dirk arent around to make them look better than they really are.
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Old 01-20-2007, 04:59 PM   #123
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no, the suns and mavs wouldnt make the playoffs without their superstars

Yeah cause Shawn Marion wasn't putting up monster numbers pre-Nash days...and Barbosa, Amare, Bell and Diaw were actually IN THE league when Nash was in Dallas...I guess we can ASSUME that they wouldn't be good players without Nash. I guess Bell didn't make that shot against the Clippers to save Phoenix...I guess Tim Thomas didn't make that huge 3 against the Lakers last season...I guess Barbosa and Diaw didn't make big play after big play against the Lakers.

Terry has been balling back in Atlanta, Howard has NOTHING to do with Dirk...he's playing great defense and creating his own shots...Stackhouse has always been a great scorer...what the f*ck are you people even talking about?

And since when has either of these players ever won anything? It's kinda pathetic to see these two so called front runners for MVP never even making it to the NBA finals playing TOGETHER...and now you guys have the right to downplay their role players and give them the spot light when they couldn't achieved jack sh*t playing along side each other.

Just trying your best to keep Kobe from not getting the MVP award.
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Old 01-20-2007, 05:02 PM   #124
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suns:
Marion/Amare/Barbosa/Bell/Diaw/Thomas

mavs:
Howard/Terry/Harris/Stackhouse/Diop...

lakers:
cook/smush/walton/bynum

now if people can not see the difference in talent between the 3 squads then i guess i really know nothing about about basketball.

the lakers have the 4th best record in the league w/2 of their regular starters out. doing this in the western conference is admirable and NO ONE including the most diehart laker fans would have or could have predicted this. this team being 12 games over .500 is dammed impressive.

the combination of guys understanding the triangle, acquiring players like farmar and evans (again, NO ONE could see they've made a difference), phil's coaching and kobe's style of play has made people notice this team.

if people want to note the losses of the sub .500 teams, i've done that for you. it just shows that this team still has a h@ll of a lot of room for improvement. i expect plenty when kwame and odom are back in the mix.
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Old 01-20-2007, 05:04 PM   #125
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Yeah cause Shawn Marion wasn't putting up monster numbers pre-Nash days...and Barbosa, Amare, Bell and Diaw were actually IN THE league when Nash was in Dallas...I guess we can ASSUME that they wouldn't be good players without Nash. I guess Bell didn't make that shot against the Clippers to save Phoenix...I guess Tim Thomas didn't make that huge 3 against the Lakers last season...I guess Barbosa and Diaw didn't make big play after big play against the Lakers.

Terry has been balling back in Atlanta, Howard has NOTHING to do with Dirk...he's playing great defense and creating his own shots...Stackhouse has always been a great scorer...what the f*ck are you people even talking about?

And since when has either of these players ever won anything? It's kinda pathetic to see these two so called front runners for MVP never even making it to the NBA finals playing TOGETHER...and now you guys have the right to downplay their role players and give them the spot light when they couldn't achieved jack sh*t playing along side each other.

Just trying your best to keep Kobe from not getting the MVP award

so your are gonna bring rings now ? how many would dirk and nash have if they had the chance to ride shaq's coat-tails for almost a decade ?

marion, amare, dantony and barbosa already lead the suns to 29 wins in 2004, the only difference in that team was the addition of steve nash and they improved their record to 62-20, then he loses stoudemire all season and still wins 54 games, disproving the ridiculous idea that studemire is the suns mvp. then the suns face the lakers and fall down 3-1 and kobe pulls the biggest choke/quit job in nba history (depending on your opinion) and the mvp blows away the wannabe by 31 points, down goes kobe, down goes phil.

have you ever seen dallas play without dirk ? it doesnt mean sheit if terry, stackhouse and howard were talented before playing with dirk, they still play like trash when dirk isnt around, whats so hard to understand about that ? their talent doesnt mean a fcucking thing if they cant execute.

Last edited by DreamRockets : 01-20-2007 at 05:06 PM.
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Old 01-20-2007, 05:10 PM   #126
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how many would dirk and nash have if they had the chance to ride shaq's coat-tails ?

How many rings did Shaquille have before Kobe came into the picture? He didn't have the talent? What prime Nick Van Axel, Eddie Jones and Campbell wasn't enough?
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Old 01-20-2007, 05:13 PM   #127
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marion, amare, dantony and barbosa already lead the suns to 29 wins in 2004

- D'Antoni wasn't the coach that year
- Amare only played 55 games
- Barbosa was playing like 20 mins a game off the bench

But who needs facts?
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Old 01-20-2007, 05:15 PM   #128
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then the suns face the lakers and fall down 3-1 and kobe pulls the biggest choke/quit job in nba history (depending on your opinion) and the mvp blows away the wannabe by 31 points, down goes kobe, down goes phil.


The MVP did that right? He made Diaw hit all those clutch shots in the 4th quarter...he made Barbosa explode...someone other then Nash made that huge turnover that tied the game and led LA to the win in game 4...the MVP didn't get abused by Parker in the post...the MVP hit the big shot in game 6...Kobe Bryant didn't score 50 points in game 6 to give his team a great chance to put the series away...Kobe didn't score 24 points in the first half of game 7...while his teams shot 20% from the field....lets just compare Steve Nash to Kobe Bryant and ignore the fact that Kobe did WAY MORE then Nash that series, and Phoenix won it because they had much better players around Nash who got the job done in the important part of the series.
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Old 01-20-2007, 05:18 PM   #129
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have you ever seen dallas play without dirk ? it doesnt mean sheit if terry, stackhouse and howard were talented before playing with dirk, they still play like trash when dirk isnt around, whats so hard to understand about that ? their talent doesnt mean a fcucking thing if they cant execute.

do you see kobe move the ball? he can get it to the open man. it don't mean sh*t if the open man doesn't hit his shot.

sorry, that might have been harsh and not a fair comparison to your point. but my point is people expect the superstars/franchise players to get close of not exceed their averages at least 4 out of 5 nights.

if roles players get good numbers 2 out of 3 nights, then their right around their talent level.

it's always about execution. the role players' shots are falling, then there's a way better chance a team is going to getting a W that night.
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Old 01-20-2007, 06:08 PM   #130
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jan803
do you see kobe move the ball? he can get it to the open man. it don't mean sh*t if the open man doesn't hit his shot.

sorry, that might have been harsh and not a fair comparison to your point. but my point is people expect the superstars/franchise players to get close of not exceed their averages at least 4 out of 5 nights.

if roles players get good numbers 2 out of 3 nights, then their right around their talent level.

it's always about execution. the role players' shots are falling, then there's a way better chance a team is going to getting a W that night.

that excuses might have meant something in the past, but not anymore, cook is a gunner, he can hit 3s from all over the court, so can radman, smush, walton, odom, sasha, are all very good shooters too, if you dont want people to underrate dirk's team mates then you shouldnt underrate kobe's teamates.
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Old 01-20-2007, 06:13 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by West-Side
How many rings did Shaquille have before Kobe came into the picture? He didn't have the talent? What prime Nick Van Axel, Eddie Jones and Campbell wasn't enough?

what ? would kobe win a ring with freakin campbell, van exel and eddie jones ? specially if you count that this happened in jordan's era ?

van exel, eddie jones and campbell arent championship pieces.

lets not mention how shaq has a ring and a finals appearence without kobe, or how he has won 11 playoff series without kobe contrary to 0 for kobe without shaq, or how he turned a putrid orlando franchise into gold in a matter of 3 years. or how kobe had a 39% winning percentage in the games shaq sat out while they played together.

is not even worth debating it, shaq won finals mvp and had the better numbers and the bigger impact all 3 years they won rings, kobe was drexler or pippen in that relationship.
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Old 01-20-2007, 06:15 PM   #132
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the mavs without question have more talent around them than the lakers have around kobe. The mavs also happen to be better than the lakers which is something that ive always wondered about when it comes to team X would be better without player Y. Yes the mavs would be better than the lakers without the respective superstars but the mavs are better now so its a moot point.
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Old 01-20-2007, 06:20 PM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamRockets
that excuses might have meant something in the past, but not anymore, cook is a gunner, he can hit 3s from all over the court, so can radman, smush, walton, odom, sasha, are all very good shooters too, if you dont want people to underrate dirk's team mates then you shouldnt underrate kobe's teamates.

remember what i was commenting on from you. you were talking about the role players' execution. if the role players execution is 'sheit'...

cook is gunner, but an inconsistent gunner. it's great that he tied his career high, but overall, he could be 2-8 the next night. and he's a defensive liability.

radman for me is a victim of not being in the tri for the required 18-24 months to really get it. yes, it didn't help that he hurt his hand, but some of the the things he does is frustrating for us fans. he's another defensive liability as well.

smush has played better for last few weeks so i give him credit. he's playing more than the $700grand the team is paying. his defense has shown of late and he can get burnt from some speedy guards as well...see tony parker.

i love walton. he's a a glue for this team. but he and cook for that matter are not legit starters. tell me that they would start on either the suns or mavs right now and then i'm through w/this thread.

i wasn't underrating these guys. my original post was simply to compare the talents of the suns, mavs and lakers rosters.

again, convince me that the lakers roster is that much more talented then the other teams and i'll be through w/this thread.

EDIT***

what i meant to post is convince me that the lakers starting roster w/o kobe is more talented than the suns and the mavs.

thanks!

Last edited by jan803 : 01-20-2007 at 06:25 PM.
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Old 01-20-2007, 06:24 PM   #134
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i NEVER said the lakers were as talented as the mavs or suns, what i disagreed with is the idea that dallas and phoenix were playoff teams without dirk and nash, thats garbage.

but even if the mavs have better talent around dirk thats a moot point, they are a better team anyway, you can only ASSUME that kobe would have an equal or superior record with dirk's teammates.
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Old 01-20-2007, 06:33 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamRockets
i NEVER said the lakers were as talented as the mavs or suns, what i disagreed with is the idea that dallas and phoenix were playoff teams without dirk and nash, thats garbage.

but even if the mavs have better talent around dirk thats a moot point, they are a better team anyway, you can only ASSUME that kobe would have an equal or superior record with dirk's teammates.

just so you understand my mindset, i DO NOT LIKE to replace player x for player y. that's wouldashouldacoulda logic to me.
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