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Old 06-25-2012, 11:37 PM   #1
Robster89
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Default Another Trade Idea

My first desire for the Lakers would be DWill, then possibly Dwight, but if that couldn't happen, what are your thoughts on this:

4 team trade with Lakers/Rockets/TWolves/76ers
(I know 4 team trades are very difficult, but this is just for discussion)


Houston
Out:
Kevin Martin
Luis Scola
Kyle Lowery
#16 pick

In:
Pau Gasol
Steve Blake

Minnesota
Out:
Derrick Williams
Michael Beasley

In:
Kevin Martin
#16 pick


76ers:
Out:
Andre Iguodala

In:
Derrick Williams
Josh McRoberts
Christian Eyenga
2013 first round pick Lakers)

Lakers
Out:
Pau Gasol
Steve Blake
Josh McRoberts
Christian Eyenga
2013 first Rounder

In:
Andre Iguodala
Luis Scola
Kyle Lowery
Michael Beasley


I know this looks like the Lakers get a lot, but if you look at each team (and understand that under the new CBA, young players on rookie deals are worth more than their stats indicate, I believe each team may do this for the following reasons:

Houston- This is essentially the same deal they did for Gasol last year, subbing Lowery for Dragic. Lowery's value to them has decreased, while Dragics is much higher. Dragic recently said he wants to stay in Houston, that he loves the city and franchise, and credited his emergence to McHale. Contrast that with Lowery's bombshell, and I think they lean towards keeping Dragic and moving Lowery. They would love to move the 2 big contracts of Martin and Scola. This deal would save them about 6 mil, money they could use to keep Dragic and Lee. Also, I think Moorey and McHale understand how good Pau is. I mean I know his value is down, but he did go 17-11 as the Lakers 3rd option, playing out of position. McHale was a great big, and he knows that if he put Pau in the post, where he belongs, he is still a 20-10 guy, AND a great passer out of the post. And adding Blake gives them an experienced back up PG that they would need if they move Lowery. I think Houston would do this deal.

Minnesota- They would have to swallow hard to move Williams, but let's face it, he is a square peg in a round hole for them. He is not a SF, he is a stretch 4, and they have the best young stretch 4 in the game in KLove. Williams is redundant. Getting Martin, who played for Adelman in both Sac and Houston would be huge. They need a scoring SG badly. Also, they get #16, and already have #18, so they may be able to trade up and get a top tier SF, like Harrison Barnes or Kidd-Gilchrist. It's a 2 for 1 for them. Beasley is as good as gone, I see him signing a MLE size deal and moving to a team of his choice (like the Lakers).

76ers- Iggy is on the block, they'd like to be rid of his contract. Netting Williams would be huge for them. A young PF on a reasonable deal. McBob and Eyenga are just throw ins to make the deal work. But Philly saves about 5 mil per and gets a great young player, who may also allow them to amnesty Brand should they choose to really cost cut. They also get a future pick.

IMO, the Lakers major weaknesses last season were PG, SF and bench, and this deal adresses all of those needs, AND adds a very nice PF to replace Gasol. Adding Lowery and Iggy on the perimeter would be huge. They can score and defend like no other. This also allows the Lakers to put Sessions on the bench, where he could be a stud. Scola would be a nice compliment to Bynum with his great mid range game. I'd also resign Hill for sure.

Sarters-
PG- Lowery
SG- Whats his name
SF- Iggy
PF- Scola
C- Bynum (or Howard)

Bench- Sessions (can play the 1 or 2)
Beasley (can play the 3 or 4)
Hill (can play the 4 or 5)
3 capable 10 point per game players off the bench.
Great perimeter defenders (with athleticism and scoring ability)
Bynum, Scola, Hill down low. We could also consider bringing Odom back in December at vet min.

I would amnesty MWP which would leave the payroll at about 85-90, so this would not shed salary if that is the desire (and I think it is an important consideration), but staying with the existing team does not make sense to me, and it would have a higher payroll, like 90-95 once Sessions and Hill return.

This team would be younger, more athletic, better defensively and we'd have a lot of chips for future deals should the opportunity arise.
This would be a championship contender now, and set us up for the future.

Last edited by Robster89 : 06-25-2012 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 06-25-2012, 11:59 PM   #2
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Default Re: Another Tarde Idea

Robster89.....is this on your Christmas list to Santa?
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:17 AM   #3
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Default Re: Another Tarde Idea

Ah come on DK!
Would be nice wouldn't it?
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:03 AM   #4
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Default Re: Another Tarde Idea

It's too much though
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Old 06-26-2012, 02:04 AM   #5
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Default Re: Another Tarde Idea

How about we get Rondo, Garnett, Kevin Durant , Russell Westbrook, Lowery, Dwight Howard, Lebron, Scola, Steve Nash and get Phil Jackson back? Have I left anyone out? Oh...Dwayne Wade, Mario Chalmers, Chris Bosch, Kevin Love, Mark Gasol. Almost forgot...Derrick Williams.

Last edited by mr sax : 06-26-2012 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:46 AM   #6
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Default Re: Another Tarde Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr sax
How about we get Rondo, Garnett, Kevin Durant , Russell Westbrook, Lowery, Dwight Howard, Lebron, Scola, Steve Nash and get Phil Jackson back? Have I left anyone out? Oh...Dwayne Wade, Mario Chalmers, Chris Bosch, Kevin Love, Mark Gasol. Almost forgot...Derrick Williams.

Instead of leaving a commet like this, why not address which part you believe wouldn't work?

I think Houston covets Gasol, they have for a long time. This is the same package they already gave up for him in the CP3 deal, just subbing Lowery for Dragic. They'd love to gt rid of Scola and Martins inflated contracts, and this deal would get them Gasol, AND save them about 6 mil/year. I explained why I think they would do that. Explain why you think they would not.

I also think Minnesota would jump at this deal. Adelman loves KMart, always has. He is the reason KMart is in Houston now. Beas is as good as gone anyway, and they know that Williams is not a fit with Love in front of him.
They get a scoring SG that they really need, and get an extra first rounder that they can use to move up to get an elite SF in the draft.

Philly wants to move Iggy, he is on the block. Word is they are looking for a pick in the 5-10 range for him. Derrick Williams is worth more than that. He was #2 last year and can definitely ball, he's just not a SF like Minnesota thought he could be. He is a stretch 4, Philly would love another young stud to add to their core of Holliday, Williams, Young, Turner They also save over 5 mil on this deal. They have Thaddeus Young to step in in at the 3, so a stretch 4 like Williams makes sense. They could also then amnesty Brand, which they are rumored to be strongly considering, and save a ton off the cap, clearing space to make them a major player in FA. Collins is rebuilding that franchise, so a young PF for Iggy makes sense.

The Lakers do seem to make out amazingly well on this, but if you look at each team, explain why you think I'm wrong and why you think they wouldn't go for this.

Your comment is one that I would expect on the main forum, where trolls abound!

Last edited by Robster89 : 06-26-2012 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:16 AM   #7
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Default Re: Another Tarde Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster89
Ah come on DK!
Would be nice wouldn't it?

Yes it would be very nice

The part that makes the least sense is that Houston would be essentially upgrading their offer to get Pau by offering Lowery instead of Dragic, plus they would in a sense be trading their #16 pick for Steve Blake
This while Pau's trade value is dropping fast.....I just don't see it.

Right now I'd take Lowery and Scola for Pau.
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:28 PM   #8
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Default Re: Another Tarde Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
Yes it would be very nice

The part that makes the least sense is that Houston would be essentially upgrading their offer to get Pau by offering Lowery instead of Dragic, plus they would in a sense be trading their #16 pick for Steve Blake
This while Pau's trade value is dropping fast.....I just don't see it.

Right now I'd take Lowery and Scola for Pau.

I would take Scola/Lowery now too, DK.

Houston's original offer actually did include the pick, it was Martin, Scola, Dragic and the pick. So really we'd just be asking to sub Lowery for Dragic, (which may make sense for them now) and take Blake back to make the money work.
They still free up a bunch of money with this.

I think one thing that might get in the way is that Houston may go hard for Dwight, and they may have the pieces to get him. Dwight is an idiot. I mean at the trade deadline last season, he had all the power to force his way to a team of his choosing. Now Orlando has a lot more power. No one was going to pay a steep price to rent Dwight for a few months, but now, getting him for a full year, the power has shifted. I do think he gets moved though.

I also see Minny is ready to offer Roy a 2 year deal, which could throw a wrench in their desire for Martin, but I can't imagine they think Roy can play big minutes. I love the guy, his play, his heart, but he can't play 30mpg 82 games a year, no way.

I know this deal would be a super far fetched longshot, and I know the Lakers seem to make out like bandits, but if you look at each team and what they give and get, who knows. I think that Minny and Philly would do this, but you're right, the Houston part may be the biggest hurdle. Though I do think that Jeff Morey and Kevin McHale really like Pau.

Did you see the thread title? I wrote "Tarde idea".
Oops!
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Old 06-26-2012, 12:49 PM   #9
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Default Re: Another Tarde Idea

I like the general idea, but thats a lot of moving parts. Would be tough to get teams to move draft picks as well as coveted young players. Houston was reluctant to do that deal straight up with Lowry involved, don't see them changing their minds even if he doesn't like it in Houston anymore.

Also, Minny gets jobbed, massive. They move last years #2 pick for #16 and Kevin Martin. They are going to want more than that, even if Kahn might be inept.

Craziest part though, which don't take me wrong, the Lakers end up 4 of the 5 best players in that deal, the NBA will not allow that. Stern has already vetoed your proposed trade and this thread will be deleted as soon as Stern's check clears
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Old 06-26-2012, 02:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: Another Tarde Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster89
Instead of leaving a commet like this, why not address which part you believe wouldn't work?

I think Houston covets Gasol, they have for a long time. This is the same package they already gave up for him in the CP3 deal, just subbing Lowery for Dragic. They'd love to gt rid of Scola and Martins inflated contracts, and this deal would get them Gasol, AND save them about 6 mil/year. I explained why I think they would do that. Explain why you think they would not.

I also think Minnesota would jump at this deal. Adelman loves KMart, always has. He is the reason KMart is in Houston now. Beas is as good as gone anyway, and they know that Williams is not a fit with Love in front of him.
They get a scoring SG that they really need, and get an extra first rounder that they can use to move up to get an elite SF in the draft.

Philly wants to move Iggy, he is on the block. Word is they are looking for a pick in the 5-10 range for him. Derrick Williams is worth more than that. He was #2 last year and can definitely ball, he's just not a SF like Minnesota thought he could be. He is a stretch 4, Philly would love another young stud to add to their core of Holliday, Williams, Young, Turner They also save over 5 mil on this deal. They have Thaddeus Young to step in in at the 3, so a stretch 4 like Williams makes sense. They could also then amnesty Brand, which they are rumored to be strongly considering, and save a ton off the cap, clearing space to make them a major player in FA. Collins is rebuilding that franchise, so a young PF for Iggy makes sense.

The Lakers do seem to make out amazingly well on this, but if you look at each team, explain why you think I'm wrong and why you think they wouldn't go for this.

Your comment is one that I would expect on the main forum, where trolls abound!

Lighten up, pal....
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Old 06-26-2012, 03:35 PM   #11
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Default Re: Another Tarde Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robster89
I would take Scola/Lowery now too, DK.

Houston's original offer actually did include the pick, it was Martin, Scola, Dragic and the pick. So really we'd just be asking to sub Lowery for Dragic, (which may make sense for them now) and take Blake back to make the money work.
They still free up a bunch of money with this.

I think one thing that might get in the way is that Houston may go hard for Dwight, and they may have the pieces to get him. Dwight is an idiot. I mean at the trade deadline last season, he had all the power to force his way to a team of his choosing. Now Orlando has a lot more power. No one was going to pay a steep price to rent Dwight for a few months, but now, getting him for a full year, the power has shifted. I do think he gets moved though.

I also see Minny is ready to offer Roy a 2 year deal, which could throw a wrench in their desire for Martin, but I can't imagine they think Roy can play big minutes. I love the guy, his play, his heart, but he can't play 30mpg 82 games a year, no way.

I know this deal would be a super far fetched longshot, and I know the Lakers seem to make out like bandits, but if you look at each team and what they give and get, who knows. I think that Minny and Philly would do this, but you're right, the Houston part may be the biggest hurdle. Though I do think that Jeff Morey and Kevin McHale really like Pau.

Did you see the thread title? I wrote "Tarde idea".
Oops!

Oh......you are 100% correct, I totally forgot that they were giving us that pick too......oh my god!!! That would've been a bigger deal than getting CP3 IMO and even better than the deal we got Pau with....IMO.
No question that we completely blew it again

Tarde......did you get that from the movie Idiocracy.....Justin Long has a great line in the movie about tards.
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Old 06-26-2012, 08:59 PM   #12
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Default Re: Another Tarde Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
Oh......you are 100% correct, I totally forgot that they were giving us that pick too......oh my god!!! That would've been a bigger deal than getting CP3 IMO and even better than the deal we got Pau with....IMO.
No question that we completely blew it again

Tarde......did you get that from the movie Idiocracy.....Justin Long has a great line in the movie about tards.

Dude, that movie was a crackup.
I loved how the cars kept careening off the broken freeway.
Yes, they coined the term "tarde", and also "batin".
And then the inevitable transformation of Fuddruckers into ----------!
Classic!
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Old 06-26-2012, 09:07 PM   #13
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Default Re: Another Tarde Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
Oh......you are 100% correct, I totally forgot that they were giving us that pick too......oh my god!!! That would've been a bigger deal than getting CP3 IMO and even better than the deal we got Pau with....IMO.
No question that we completely blew it again

Tarde......did you get that from the movie Idiocracy.....Justin Long has a great line in the movie about tards.


I see Houston just send Budinger to Minnesota for the 18th pick, so now they (Houston) have #14,#16 and #18. Looks like they might be stockpiling picks to make a move on Dwight?

I've heard Houston could send Lowery to Toronto for #8 too.

One advantage for Houston in my deal would be that they move Martin and Scola, who together eat up close to 22 mil in cap space next season. Gotta believe they'd really like to move them.
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Old 06-26-2012, 10:02 PM   #14
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Default Re: Another Tarde Idea

There are so many things wrong with this trade.

Houston is giving up way too much for Gasol.

Minnesota cannot sign and trade Beasley to the Lakers (per new CBA).

Philly isn't at all remotely interested in Derrick Williams and they aren't going to trade Iggy away in a Laker trade and not get Gasol back.

And finally, the Lakers are taking 30 million back in salary + whatever Beasley will get (this is not possible as mentioned earlier) and 23 million going out. I think the goal is to get under the cap, not further away from it in the wrong direction.

Let's be realistic next time.
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Old 06-26-2012, 11:28 PM   #15
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Default Re: Another Tarde Idea

Quote:
Originally Posted by BallsOut
There are so many things wrong with this trade.

Houston is giving up way too much for Gasol.

Minnesota cannot sign and trade Beasley to the Lakers (per new CBA).

Philly isn't at all remotely interested in Derrick Williams and they aren't going to trade Iggy away in a Laker trade and not get Gasol back.

And finally, the Lakers are taking 30 million back in salary + whatever Beasley will get (this is not possible as mentioned earlier) and 23 million going out. I think the goal is to get under the cap, not further away from it in the wrong direction.

Let's be realistic next time.

Not to be argumentative but:
1. Houston made almost this same trade for Gasol already, the difference being addng Lowery and subtracting Dragic. They want to move Lowery and keep Dragic, and this deal moves out the 2 contracts they really want to be free of, Martin and Scola. Rumor has it that they could move Lowery for #8 (Toronto), but this would not move much money out and they want to move those contracts so they can resign Dragic and Lee.

2. Tax paying teams, like the Lakers, can still do sign and trades. Restrictions are on extend and trades and those do not go into effect until 2013-2014. I looked it up.

3. Philly would jump at Derrick Williams. They are shopping Iggy hard and asking for a pick in the 5-10 range. Williams is worth as much or more than anyone in this draft not named Anthony Davis. Philly wants to build on their young core of Lou Williams, Holiday, Turner and Young. They have PG, SG and SF covered, so would love to add a young, talented PF like Williams. Philly would prefer a young PF like Williams, at 5 mil, over a vet like Pau, at 19 mil.

Lastly, I agree about the money. But by amnestying MWP the payroll would be around 85 mil, which would be less than if we keep the current roster intact. The lux tax penalty also does not go into effect until 2013-2014, so they'd still have a year to shed salary if that became an issue.

Just putting it out for discussion dude, like you do with ideas. I have always enjoyed your posts, even when I don't necessarily agree with them. I like the fact that you bring ideas to the table. That's all I'm trying to do, throw out ideas for discussion.

Last edited by Robster89 : 06-26-2012 at 11:43 PM.
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