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Old 07-16-2012, 02:35 PM   #121
D.J.
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Quote:
Originally Posted by willds09
barkley needs to shut tha fuhk up


Shep first.
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:22 PM   #122
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shep
4 out of 5 guys were averaging 15 points. any one of the 4 could step up and score 25 on any given night.

And look at Stockton's own roster in Utah. Malone was averaging 28 per game, forget about 25 on any given night, he was giving you 25+ virtually every night. Far beyond anyone Stockton would have in that utah lineup. Then there was Thurl Bailey, averaging about 20 per game, raised that to 23 per game in the playoffs, and was only Utah's second best scorer, but better than any scorer Stockton would have in Philly. Darrell Griffith averaged 11 ppg in just 20 mpg off the bench, 15 per game in the 11 games he started and two seasons removed from a 23 ppg season as a starter. They also had Kelly Tripucka who was in a limited role in Utah, but he had averaged 20 per game prior to being traded there, and he would averaged 23 per game the very next season when he left Utah.

Stockton clearly had 4 teammates capable of 25 on any given night in those guys, yet Utah was an inferior offensive team to Philly.

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eaton was a non factor from 1990 onwards and they still won 55+ games

And did they still have the best defensive team in the league statistically like they did in '88 or '89(Eaton's DPOY season)? No. They didn't approach it. They kept winning partially because both Malone and Stockton improved, and they also retooled their roster, first with Jeff Malone and later, Jeff Hornacek.

Eaton couldn't be called a non-factor until '93 either. He was still a great shot blocker and presence. It should come as no surprise that when Eaton's minutes were limited to 18 during his final season in '93, the Jazz dropped from a 55 win team and top 7 defensive team in '92 to a 47 win team and the 13th best defensive team in '93.

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only by the smallest of amounts tho

Doesn't look small to me.

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the main reason the cavaliers struggled so much during the regular season was because they traded away a top 2 shooting guard in ron harper for filth. daugherty and price were nice players, but this wasn't a powerful team by any stretch of the imagination, especially with the fact that they hadn't been together all year with people missing time due to injury.
daugherty and nance were average all season long, and nance played even worse in that series, dipping to 12 points and 5 rebounds per game. price was consistant, but even he wasn't top 5 at his position.

Ron Harper was not a top 2 shooting guard. And Mark Price was a top 5 point guard. one of the players from that era that gets underrated the most. Only Magic Johnson, Kevin Johnson, Isiah Thomas and John Stockton were better at that position.

The obvious reason that the Cavs struggled was simply injuries. Pretty much the same team won 57 games when healthy in '92 and got to the ECF.

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the bullets were one of the best defenses in the league and althought they might not have had the talent that cleveland did, what they did do was every player played out of their skins to take those sixers to 5 games.

manute bol went from 3.7ppg, 6.0rpg, 0.3apg, 0.4spg, 5.0bpg
to 4.6ppg, 7.6rpg, 0.2apg, 0.6spg, 5.8bpg

gus williams went from 13.5ppg, 2.2rpg, 5.9apg, 1.2spg, 0.2bpg
to 18.2ppg, 2.0rpg, 6.6apg, 2.2spg, 0.0bpg

cliff robinson went from 18.7ppg, 8.7rpg, 2.4apg, 1.3spg, 0.6bpg
to 21.4ppg, 8.6rpg, 3.4apg, 2.0spg, 0.6bpg

jeff malone went from 22.4ppg, 3.6rpg, 2.4apg, 0.9spg, 0.2bpg
to 22.0ppg, 3.2rpg, 3.4apg, 1.4spg, 0.6bpg

dan roundfield went from 11.6ppg, 8.1rpg, 2.1apg, 0.5spg, 0.6bpg
to 14.0ppg, 9.2rpg, 2.0apg, 0.4spg, 0.8bpg

And I'd much rather face that team than a team with, not only a star duo of Price/Daugherty, but a big 3 with Nance. Not many teams have 4th best players as good as Hot Rod Williams.

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hawkins played better, and played more like a star player. 39/4/2/4 14/26 fg 4/6 3p 7/8 ft. barkley 7/15 fg 0/3 3p 4/7 ft.

Why are you posting Hawkins' entire stats, and just Barkley's shooting numbers? And I'm not seeing the point here. Hawkins having a great game shouldn't take away from Barkley. Charles played well too, and had some big games that series.

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pressey and cummings were the bucks two best players and they were there for all 7 games.

Since when are those 2 players better than Sidney Moncrief. It's probably no coincidence that the Sixers did not beat the Bucks with Moncrief in the lineup.

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pace is already taken into consideration here. and 12 playoff games are enough to overcome a regular season in this case due to:
1. the regular season being almost inseparable, and
2. his 1986 playoff's being easily superior

The regular season is actually what's easily superior, and the playoffs seem close.

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injuries happen, but players who miss more games than players who don't miss games are less valuable to their respective teams.

If we were talking about regular season MVP voting, I might agree, but we're talking about best player, which includes the playoffs.

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so he holds more responsibility for the losses

No. it shows Barkley was good enough to carry a weak team to a solid record and the playoffs.

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magic johnson led the lakers to second best record in the nba and championship, where he also won finals most valuable player. magic led the lakers to a 12-2 playoff record, and stepped up the most out of all players who participated in the playoffs averaging close to a triple double with 17.4ppg, 11.3rpg, 9.3apg, 2.9spg, on 53%fg and 83%ft after completing a regular season with averages of 18.6ppg, 9.6rpg, 9.5apg, 2.7spg on 54%fg and 76%ft.

Actually, Kareem led that team. He was their 1st option, their best scorer, go to player in the clutch, the guy on the team who drew double teams and far more of an impact player defensively than Magic with his 3 blocks per game, while Magic was never a good defender.

Magic before adding the outside shot, as well as the post game, simply wasn't a good enough half court player to be in this discussion.

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1993 was his peak by a huge margin. followed by 1995, 1986, 1994, 1990, 1991, 1997, 1987, 1988, and 1996.

Where the fuck did '95 come from? I thought you were claiming '86 to be his second best. Both are laughable.

'90, '91 and '93 are his top 3, put them in whatever order you like. '89 was his 4th best season, and he was pretty much as good as those other 3 seasons. '88 is 5th.

at '97 Barkley being better than prime '89 Barkley.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shep
larry bird was playing alongside 3 other hall of famers beside himself (including a top 2 power forward), where as jordan's next best teammate's consisted of a top 8 power forward, and dave corzine, yet the bulls still managed to only win 7 less games than the mighty celtics with a good enough record for third in the east. jordan also did not need to rest/sit out games.

jordan was the best offensive player in the league, and the best defensive player in the league. he led the bulls in points(almost tripling the second best scorers average), assists, minutes, steals, blocks, field goal percentage, and free throw percentage. there was no team that relied on 1 player more in the league..maybe even all time.

the 7 win margin is deceptive because the Bulls probably don't win 50 and the Celtics probably win 58-59 if Bird and their other best palyers don't rest the final 2 games.

at '88 Jordan being the best defensive player in the league. It's very debatable whether he was a better overall offensive player than '88 Bird who was a great scorer himself, a better shooter from all areas than '88 Jordan, better without the ball, the better post player and the superior passer

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pippen wasn't even top 4 in '94. 1991 pippen averaged 22.0ppg, 7.8rpg, 5.3apg, 3.0spg, 2.0bpg, 48%fg against the great defense of detroit in 1991. with the ball in his hands alot more i can see him easily scoring atleast 5 more points per game.

Pippen had prime/peak MJ as the '91 Pistons' focus. And their defense paled in comparison to the '94 Knicks.

It's just a laughable argument that can't be backed up. '91 wasn't even one of Pippen's top 5 seasons.

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the knicks were a tougher matchup for the bulls

Not the '91 team. the '91 Knicks lost all 4 games in the regular season to Chicago, 3 of them by 10 points.

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who cares what happened in 1992? we saw detroit win consecutive championships and then get swept out of the playoff's the next season by the chicago bulls with its 2 best players at their respective peaks.

Their '92 season is as relevant to '91 as their championship seasons are. Peak '94 Pippen on the '91 Bulls would have been devastating, I guess the '92 team was relatively close to that.

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we were talking about divac's performance in the finals. saving the best for last and stepping up the most against the best competition, divac averaged 18.2ppg, 8.8rpg, 2.0apg, 1.8spg, and 2.4bpg, on 57%fg

Daugherty has put up better numbers for an entire 17 game playoff run, and entire seasons, much less a 5 game losing series.

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lol@that all nba team selection. give me vin baker and larry johnson on my third team easily over rodman, not to mention countless others. the wins amounted to nothing and they'd rather have a bag of dirt rather than him, proving his real worth to that franchise.

And they failed to get back to the conference finals without him in '96 like they did in '95.

Quote:
5-9 over those games. give me a bigger sample size, like hmm..maybe 82 games in for example 1994 tho? how did elliott fare this time around.

'94 was in a completely different team and system, as well as a losing atmosphere.
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:34 PM   #123
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Shep Constantly Avoids the Statistical Evidence I Pointed To.

Barkley was the Best PF Ever for Nearly 11 Years...Where Yes, He Owned Malone for Those.

Malone Got the Better of Barkey when Charles himself said "I Thank Houston For Treating Me Like An All Star Even Though I Couldn`t Play Anymore"

Shaqattack Shep īs a Barkley Hater as Much like Grunge, Alternative Rock and "New" Metal is Better than Oldschooll Classic Metal, AOR, Hard Rock and Thrash.

End Thread

Last edited by Round Mound : 07-16-2012 at 07:00 PM.
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:37 PM   #124
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Barkley was a better go to scorer for sure but Malone was easily a better defender. Not an easy call. I am not sure who i would take, probably Malone due to the defense. But Malone's lack of 1 on 1 offense definitely hurt him in the playoffs.
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Old 07-16-2012, 06:59 PM   #125
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Quote:
Originally Posted by tontoz
Barkley was a better go to scorer for sure but Malone was easily a better defender. Not an easy call. I am not sure who i would take, probably Malone due to the defense. But Malone's lack of 1 on 1 offense definitely hurt him in the playoffs.

Barkley was a Better Rebounder, Creator of Offense (his Own or Others) and Passer than Malone too.
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:48 AM   #126
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

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And look at Stockton's own roster in Utah. Malone was averaging 28 per game, forget about 25 on any given night, he was giving you 25+ virtually every night. Far beyond anyone Stockton would have in that utah lineup. Then there was Thurl Bailey, averaging about 20 per game, raised that to 23 per game in the playoffs, and was only Utah's second best scorer, but better than any scorer Stockton would have in Philly. Darrell Griffith averaged 11 ppg in just 20 mpg off the bench, 15 per game in the 11 games he started and two seasons removed from a 23 ppg season as a starter. They also had Kelly Tripucka who was in a limited role in Utah, but he had averaged 20 per game prior to being traded there, and he would averaged 23 per game the very next season when he left Utah.

Stockton clearly had 4 teammates capable of 25 on any given night in those guys, yet Utah was an inferior offensive team to Philly.
lol, yes lets mention kelly tripucka and his 7 points per contest..huge contributer that man was.

stockton had 2 scorers on the jazz, put him and sikma on the sixers in place of barkley and cheeks and you have a line up like this:

C Mike Gminski (16.9ppg, 10.5rpg, 1.8apg, 0.8spg, 1.8bpg)
PF Jack Sikma (16.5ppg, 8.6rpg, 3.4apg, 1.1spg, 1.0bpg)
SF Cliff Robinson (19.0ppg, 6.5rpg, 2.1apg, 1.3spg, 0.6bpg)
SG Gerald Henderson/David Wingate
PG John Stockton (14.7ppg, 2.9rpg, 13.8apg, 3.0spg)

so that is 4 out of 5 starters capable of putting up big offensive numbers on any given night. then you factor in 5 or 6 more field goals per night and everybody is scoring more, and the sixers are winning more due to the fact that they are much harder to defend with so many offensive weapons.

stockton also increased his playoff scoring to 19.5ppg.
Quote:
And did they still have the best defensive team in the league statistically like they did in '88 or '89(Eaton's DPOY season)? No. They didn't approach it. They kept winning partially because both Malone and Stockton improved, and they also retooled their roster, first with Jeff Malone and later, Jeff Hornacek.

Eaton couldn't be called a non-factor until '93 either. He was still a great shot blocker and presence. It should come as no surprise that when Eaton's minutes were limited to 18 during his final season in '93, the Jazz dropped from a 55 win team and top 7 defensive team in '92 to a 47 win team and the 13th best defensive team in '93.
they missed eaton so much that the year after he left they replaced him with felton spencer, got much better defensively, won 6 more games, and made the conference finals
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Doesn't look small to me.

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Ron Harper was not a top 2 shooting guard. And Mark Price was a top 5 point guard. one of the players from that era that gets underrated the most. Only Magic Johnson, Kevin Johnson, Isiah Thomas and John Stockton were better at that position.
yes, ron harper was a top 2 shooting guard, only behind michael jordan at that point. also better than mark price in 1990 was terry porter.
Quote:
The obvious reason that the Cavs struggled was simply injuries. Pretty much the same team won 57 games when healthy in '92 and got to the ECF.
they weren't the same. 1992 larry nance does not average 12 points and 5 rebounds per game in 1990. daugherty and nance were better in 1992 by a huge margin, and the cavs easily handle the sixers.
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And I'd much rather face that team than a team with, not only a star duo of Price/Daugherty, but a big 3 with Nance. Not many teams have 4th best players as good as Hot Rod Williams.
lol at this star duo. first of all price and williams were the cavaliers best 2 players, daugherty was trash all year. daugherty was the cavs fourth best player.

i'd rather face a team in which its third best player struggles all series and puts up 12/5 than face a team in which every one of their best 5 players steps up and plays huge.
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Why are you posting Hawkins' entire stats, and just Barkley's shooting numbers? And I'm not seeing the point here. Hawkins having a great game shouldn't take away from Barkley. Charles played well too, and had some big games that series.
the best player is the one that steps up in huge games..and in this particular case it wasn't barkley, but hawkins who stepped up.
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Since when are those 2 players better than Sidney Moncrief. It's probably no coincidence that the Sixers did not beat the Bucks with Moncrief in the lineup.
since 1986. not really any coincidence there, considering any team that loses a third best player on your roster who is also 1st team all defense is going to struggle, especially in the playoffs. having moncrief didn't seem to have any impact in the celtics series - getting swept with him playing 3 of 4 games.
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The regular season is actually what's easily superior, and the playoffs seem close.

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If we were talking about regular season MVP voting, I might agree, but we're talking about best player, which includes the playoffs.
yes, best player is what we are talking about - this is correct.
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No. it shows Barkley was good enough to carry a weak team to a solid record and the playoffs.
not good enough to carry it to more wins and a better playoff showing tho
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:49 AM   #127
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Quote:
Actually, Kareem led that team. He was their 1st option, their best scorer, go to player in the clutch, the guy on the team who drew double teams and far more of an impact player defensively than Magic with his 3 blocks per game, while Magic was never a good defender.

Magic before adding the outside shot, as well as the post game, simply wasn't a good enough half court player to be in this discussion.
the man won finals mvp and he's not good enough to be in this discussion

magic was easily their best player. top 3 in mvp voting, led the league in steals, almost averaged a triple double for an entire year, scored 18.6ppg and shot 54%. kareem played like an old man that year and could not even manage 9 boards per game - he was outrebounded by a guard and had more turnovers than blocks.

in the playoffs magic and norm nixon stepped up big for the lakers, where as kareem dipped his scoring to a paltry 20.4ppg.
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Where the **** did '95 come from? I thought you were claiming '86 to be his second best. Both are laughable.
1986 was his second best season (due to him only missing 2 games all year), but 1995 was his second most peak season.
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'90, '91 and '93 are his top 3, put them in whatever order you like.
1993, 1995, 1986
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'89 was his 4th best season, and he was pretty much as good as those other 3 seasons. '88 is 5th.

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at '97 Barkley being better than prime '89 Barkley.
swept in first round
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the 7 win margin is deceptive because the Bulls probably don't win 50 and the Celtics probably win 58-59 if Bird and their other best palyers don't rest the final 2 games.
well they shouldn't have rested the final 2 games
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at '88 Jordan being the best defensive player in the league. It's very debatable whether he was a better overall offensive player than '88 Bird who was a great scorer himself, a better shooter from all areas than '88 Jordan, better without the ball, the better post player and the superior passer
yet jordan dominated in much more categories, won defensive player of the year, won mvp, and carried more on his shoulders than any other player in the history of the league.
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Pippen had prime/peak MJ as the '91 Pistons' focus. And their defense paled in comparison to the '94 Knicks.

It's just a laughable argument that can't be backed up. '91 wasn't even one of Pippen's top 5 seasons.
'91 pippen was easily better than '94 pippen. his peak season's rank like this: '91, '92, '96, '97, '93/'98, '94. '91 pippen with the opportunity to have the ball in hands any time he wanted it = finals.
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Not the '91 team. the '91 Knicks lost all 4 games in the regular season to Chicago, 3 of them by 10 points.
the knicks had a better regular season, weren't a expansion team playing in its first ever playoff series. the knicks had patrick ewing who had a great regular season with 27/11/3/1/3. the heat lost the regular season series to the bulls 0-4 and averaging losing margin was over 17 points per game.
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Their '92 season is as relevant to '91 as their championship seasons are. Peak '94 Pippen on the '91 Bulls would have been devastating, I guess the '92 team was relatively close to that.
peak '91 pippen on the '91 bulls was devastating. they only lost 2 games all post season!
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Daugherty has put up better numbers for an entire 17 game playoff run, and entire seasons, much less a 5 game losing series.
what are daugherty's finals stats tho
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And they failed to get back to the conference finals without him in '96 like they did in '95.
they would have preferred to considering they traded him for filth
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'94 was in a completely different team and system, as well as a losing atmosphere.
lots more opportunities to shine..take over a franchise and lead it in the right direction.
Quote:
Shep Constantly Avoids the Statistical Evidence I Pointed To.

Barkley was the Best PF Ever for Nearly 11 Years...Where Yes, He Owned Malone for Those.

Malone Got the Better of Barkey when Charles himself said "I Thank Houston For Treating Me Like An All Star Even Though I Couldn`t Play Anymore"

Shaqattack Shep īs a Barkley Hater as Much like Grunge, Alternative Rock and "New" Metal is Better than Oldschooll Classic Metal, AOR, Hard Rock and Thrash.

End Thread
karl malone vs charles barkley head to head in the regular season:

malone: 23.7ppg, 10.1rpg 3.2apg, 1.3spg, 0.8bpg, 3.0topg, 52%fg
barkley: 18.4ppg, 10.1rpg, 3.8apg, 1.4spg, 0.5bpg, 3.2topg, 47%fg

malone: 23 wins
barkley: 16 wins

karl malone vs charles barkley head to head in the playoffs:

malone: 24.3ppg, 11.7rpg, 2.2apg, 1.4spg, 1.3bpg, 2.9topg, 44%fg
barkley: 13.3ppg, 8.7rpg, 2.7apg, 1.0spg, 0.3bpg, 2.3topg, 45%fg

malone: 6 wins
barkley: 4 wins
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:44 AM   #128
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Lol like the head to head stats, so much for malone getting owned by barkley
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Old 07-17-2012, 03:42 AM   #129
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shep
lol, yes lets mention kelly tripucka and his 7 points per contest..huge contributer that man was.

The man could score, when you have other scorers, they don't always get opportunities. I never said he was a great all around player, for example, he was just a terrible defender, and didn't do anything other than score. But if you wanted scoring, he could give you that. Cliff Robinson didn't do anything other than

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stockton had 2 scorers on the jazz,


You're denying that Darrell Griffith could score too?

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put him and sikma on the sixers in place of barkley and cheeks and you have a line up like this:

C Mike Gminski (16.9ppg, 10.5rpg, 1.8apg, 0.8spg, 1.8bpg)
PF Jack Sikma (16.5ppg, 8.6rpg, 3.4apg, 1.1spg, 1.0bpg)
SF Cliff Robinson (19.0ppg, 6.5rpg, 2.1apg, 1.3spg, 0.6bpg)
SG Gerald Henderson/David Wingate
PG John Stockton (14.7ppg, 2.9rpg, 13.8apg, 3.0spg)

so that is 4 out of 5 starters capable of putting up big offensive numbers on any given night. then you factor in 5 or 6 more field goals per night and everybody is scoring more, and the sixers are winning more due to the fact that they are much harder to defend with so many offensive weapons.

stockton also increased his playoff scoring to 19.5ppg.

I'm aware of this hypothetical lineup you created, I've seen it several times now and I'm not impressed. It doesn't look as potent as Stockton's Utah offense(well, actually Malone's Utah offense), and that wasn't a good offense. Then you go from the top ranked defense to roughly bottom 4, and I'm convinced they're not

Quote:
they missed eaton so much that the year after he left they replaced him with felton spencer, got much better defensively, won 6 more games, and made the conference finals


Eaton was an 18 mpg player by his last season. Although Utah's success in '94 is not surprising, that's around the time we really started seeing Malone's game become complete when he was becoming an excellent passer, post defender and mid-range shooter. They also added Jeff Hornacek and Tom Chambers(though Chambers didn't give them much in the postseason).

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yes, ron harper was a top 2 shooting guard, only behind michael jordan at that point. also better than mark price in 1990 was terry porter.

at Harper being better than Drexler in '89. Terry Porter was not better than Price. He was a better defender, but Price was clearly the better passer, shooter and ball handler(how many could split traps like Price)? I liked Porter's game too. He's in my top 25 list for 1990.

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they weren't the same. 1992 larry nance does not average 12 points and 5 rebounds per game in 1990. daugherty and nance were better in 1992 by a huge margin, and the cavs easily handle the sixers.


Of course, because Daugherty and Nance were healthy in the '92 seasons. Just like they were healthy in the '90 playoffs, Nance had a down series, but Daugherty was back playing at prime level.

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lol at this star duo. first of all price and williams were the cavaliers best 2 players, daugherty was trash all year. daugherty was the cavs fourth best player.

Williams was not a better player than a healthy Brad Daugherty. I didn't rank Daugherty in '90 because he didn't qualify in games played, but he was back putting up 23/10/4 on 59 FG%.

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i'd rather face a team in which its third best player struggles all series and puts up 12/5 than face a team in which every one of their best 5 players steps up and plays huge.

Nance had a down series, but they still had Daugherty(23/10/4, 59 FG%), Price(20/3/9, 53 FG%) and Williams (19/9, 56 FG%). The Bullets didn't have that kind of talent, not even close.

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the best player is the one that steps up in huge games..and in this particular case it wasn't barkley, but hawkins who stepped up.

Barkley played well in that game, I don't care if Hawkins stepped up with a huge game. You know that a team's second best player can outplay the best player every now and then. It's not a big deal.

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since 1986. not really any coincidence there, considering any team that loses a third best player on your roster who is also 1st team all defense is going to struggle, especially in the playoffs. having moncrief didn't seem to have any impact in the celtics series - getting swept with him playing 3 of 4 games.

Yeah and the '86 Celtics are arguably the best team ever, getting dominated by them means nothing. But if you're discrediting the Bucks with Moncrief for that, then it doesn't say as much about the feat of Barkley taking them to 7 without winning 1 of the games Moncrief played.

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not good enough to carry it to more wins and a better playoff showing tho

I wouldn't expect a player to do anything more with that roster. Certainly not contend for a title.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shep
the man won finals mvp and he's not good enough to be in this discussion


Right, because everyone who is voted finals MVP belongs in the best player discussion.

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magic was easily their best player. top 3 in mvp voting, led the league in steals, almost averaged a triple double for an entire year, scored 18.6ppg and shot 54%. kareem played like an old man that year and could not even manage 9 boards per game - he was outrebounded by a guard and had more turnovers than blocks.

What do I care if Magic led the league in steals? He was still a mediocre defender. Maybe if Magic had an outside shot back then, or a post game I'd consider it.

I'll take the dominant post player averaging 24 ppg on 58% shooting and blocking almost 3 shots per game. The guy who was drawing double teams and could score at any point in the game.

Magic didn't even have a case for being better than Kareem until '84 when he started to show more of an outside shot, but it was still debatable. Why do you think Pat Riley waited until the '86-'87 season to make Magic the 1st option?

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in the playoffs magic and norm nixon stepped up big for the lakers, where as kareem dipped his scoring to a paltry 20.4ppg.

20.4 ppg is paltry? He was also averaging almost 9 boards and almost 4 assists with over 3 blocks per game.

And it's not all about stats. Kareem was clearly better than Magic for being so much better as a scorer, a guy who you have to double(unlike '82 Magic) and a real defensive presence and shot blocker(unlike Magic).

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1986 was his second best season (due to him only missing 2 games all year), but 1995 was his second most peak season.



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1993, 1995, 1986



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swept in first round

at you once again comparing team success in completely different roles and situations. Serious question, have you watched any '89 and '97 Barkley games? Because if you did, you might want to use what you saw in those games to rank his best years instead of whatever criteria leads to such huge mistakes.

well they shouldn't have rested the final 2 games

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yet jordan dominated in much more categories, won defensive player of the year, won mvp, and carried more on his shoulders than any other player in the history of the league.

Yes he was voted MVP and DPOY, and I don't have a problem with the MVP, I might go with Bird, but Jordan has a great case, but '88 Jordan simply shouldn't have been voted DPOY. He was definitely not at his own defensive peak, and it's hard enough to justify a perimeter player getting the award.

Jordan didn't dominate more categories. He was a better scorer and defender. Bird was the better rebounder and passer.

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'91 pippen was easily better than '94 pippen. his peak season's rank like this: '91, '92, '96, '97, '93/'98, '94. '91 pippen with the opportunity to have the ball in hands any time he wanted it = finals.

'91 Pippen in '94= 1st round exit or lottery team.

Pippen's 5 best seasons in order: '94, '95, '96, '92, '97

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the knicks had a better regular season, weren't a expansion team playing in its first ever playoff series. the knicks had patrick ewing who had a great regular season with 27/11/3/1/3. the heat lost the regular season series to the bulls 0-4 and averaging losing margin was over 17 points per game.

The Knicks had a better regular season by 1 win. Both teams were overmatched by the Bulls. This is really pointless.

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peak '91 pippen on the '91 bulls was devastating. they only lost 2 games all post season!

Peak '94 Pippen helped the Bulls only fall off by 2 wins after Jordan retired, helped Chicago overachieve greatly to 55-27(51-21 w/ Pippen and 44-16 w/ Pippen and Grant), took a Knick team that had challenged the Jordan Bulls to 7, the same team that was a shot away from the '94 title, were probably prevented from a finals appearance by only the horrendous Hue Hollins call.

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what are daugherty's finals stats tho

Sorry, he didn't have the luxury of playing with Magic and Worthy on a team with a very deep frontcourt and 5-6 scoring options overall.

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they would have preferred to considering they traded him for filth

So they preferred winning less?

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lots more opportunities to shine..take over a franchise and lead it in the right direction.

No, his minutes dropped significantly. And as long as we're talking about Elliott without the Spurs, how about the Spurs without Elliott? They're in the semifinals with him in '93, he leaves and they lose in the 1st round with Karl Malone humiliating David Robinson, Elliott returns and they're in the conference finals with a franchise record at the time of 62 wins.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:52 AM   #130
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

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Originally Posted by D.J.
Shep first.
both shud
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Old 07-17-2012, 08:18 AM   #131
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shep
:
'91 pippen was easily better than '94 pippen. his peak season's rank like this: '91, '92, '96, '97, '93/'98, '94. '91 pippen with the opportunity to have the ball in hands any time he wanted it = finals.





Are you honestly typing that with a straight face? There is NO WAY IN HELL 91 Pippen was better than 94 Pippen. Not only that, but you rank 94 Pippen last out of his peak years? Oh I get it, you're trolling. Good job.
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Old 07-17-2012, 09:41 AM   #132
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeyjoejoe
Lol like the head to head stats, so much for malone getting owned by barkley



Shep included those years where Barkley was constantly injured and a Role Player in Houston from 1996 to 2000 that is 30% of their Last Meetings

I have Stats from 1986 to 1996...Over 70% of their 1st Meetings and Barkley Owned Malone


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=135370

Last edited by Round Mound : 07-17-2012 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 07-17-2012, 01:45 PM   #133
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shep
barkley is an overrated crybaby. top 20? maybe top 35

malone was the best power forward in nba history until tim duncan came around. barkley isn't even better than the likes of kevin garnett, bob pettit, elvin hayes, or dirk nowitzki

What are you smoking? Give me Sir Charles over all of those guys besides KG.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:59 PM   #134
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragonyeuw


Are you honestly typing that with a straight face? There is NO WAY IN HELL 91 Pippen was better than 94 Pippen. Not only that, but you rank 94 Pippen last out of his peak years? Oh I get it, you're trolling. Good job.


Seriously. '94 Pippen was an MVP candidate. '91 Pippen didn't get a single vote. Hell even '92 Pippen was only 9th in MVP voting.
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Old 07-17-2012, 07:23 PM   #135
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Default Re: Barkley: I'm better than Malone

That seemed pretty even to me, also cherry pickin years for barkleys prime and not malones, charles prime 88-93 karls 94-00 thats like putting kobe pre 00 stats against some1 in their prime, im not a barkley hater there both massive favourites of mine
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