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Old 07-16-2012, 12:12 PM   #16
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Default Re: "State you position on the Knicks" thread

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Originally Posted by Jasi
Well here's my take.

1)
The Knicks have messed up the 2010 free agency.
Now they find themselves with two superstars around whom - as a duo - it is very difficult to put together a winning team.
We overpaid Amar'e, who is now fairly untradeable.
That is the biggest problem.
We could have built an awesome team around Melo, with Amare's salary space.
Instead, now we are kind of stuck in the middle.


2) (as a consequence)
The Knicks don't have time to "build". We cannot indulge in a young team hoping they become good role players.
Our stars are in their prime.
Melo is 28 and in his prime. Amar'e seems to have lost a step already. Tyson is even older.
The timeframe in which we should win is very thin. And young players won't bring us a title, if their name isn't Kyrie Irving or Anthony Davis and a few others, which is not the case.
In this sense I agree with the type of moves that have been done. Kidd, JR Smith are people who can contribute now. We are still some moves away though.
Your first point makes no sense to me. You act like Amare came 2nd.... You overpaid for Amare because no one wants to come here unless they get OVERPAID!

Your 2nd point is true because the Knicks traded all there draft picks and players to basically acquire cap space and/or Stat and Melo. If you are in win now mode its hard to acquire young players because you dont know what your getting from young players and if someone goes down do you want your season resting on less known talent in prominent roles.

Lets just call a spade a spade If you are not going into the Luxury Tax zone why BUY a freakin' roster makes no sense! Its pure stupidity.

Last edited by Rameek : 07-16-2012 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 07-16-2012, 12:49 PM   #17
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Default Re: "State you position on the Knicks" thread

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Originally Posted by Rameek
Your first point makes no sense to me. You act like Amare came 2nd.... You overpaid for Amare because no one wants to come here unless they get OVERPAID!

We signed him to an overly expensive contract considering what his role should have been in the future (in all scenarios that were possible at that time), and that's all that matters.

Quote:
Your 2nd point is weird too because the Knicks traded all there draft picks and players to basically acquire cap space and/or Stat and Melo

Why, that's exactly my point: we said "no" to building; we said "yes" to buying a roster for contending. I don't agree in principle to this strategy, but at this point I'm all for being consistent with it.


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Lets just call a spade a spade If you are not going into the Luxury Tax zone why BUY a freakin' roster makes no sense! Its pure stupidity.

I never said anything about staying cheap or whatever
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Old 07-16-2012, 03:14 PM   #18
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Default Re: "State you position on the Knicks" thread

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Originally Posted by Jasi
We signed him to an overly expensive contract considering what his role should have been in the future (in all scenarios that were possible at that time), and that's all that matters.



Why, that's exactly my point: we said "no" to building; we said "yes" to buying a roster for contending. I don't agree in principle to this strategy, but at this point I'm all for being consistent with it.




I never said anything about staying cheap or whatever
I misread your post so redacted my original statement and expounded on your intelligent words!
The Knicks FO are morons not for staying cheap but for buying every single player on the roster but dont want to pay the luxury tax. You can not do both and its so freakn obvious. I cant believe no on there has the foresight to come to this conclusion.
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Old 07-16-2012, 04:38 PM   #19
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Default Re: "State you position on the Knicks" thread

I think at the end of the day, we need 2 stars to win. If we liked Amare as that guy, so be it. Go out, get two stars, and everyone else should be role players getting paid like role players. In today's NBA, you aren't winning with just one big time scorer. You need 2 now. We assumed Amare would be that guy and still can be. We know Melo can be that guy. From there, you get complimentary players. A pass first pg, knockdown shooters and a rugged center. Fill your bench with talented players. A mix of quality bench players and a solid coach. Thats it. From there, you expect your starts to play as such and your role players to do their jobs when called upon. Instead, we got Melo and Amare. Then instead of building around them, we got Chandler and paid him star money but he isn't. From there, we didn't use the rest of our money on sure thing at PG or SG. We spent a bunch money and none of it went to needs. I don't mind paying Novak, but do it AFTER you get a starting sg. Then we spent money on Kidd, a backup pg, before we even had our starting pg secure. Just a bunch of putting the cart before the horse.
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Old 07-16-2012, 05:40 PM   #20
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Default Re: "State you position on the Knicks" thread

The game has changed, unfortunately.

Teams now almost need three stars due to what happened in Miami.

LeBron, Wade and Bosh can score 20+ easily in the same game, and when they do it, I believe they are unbeatable.

What's even worse is one of those guys can afford to sit down and watch the other two go bonkers, with the floor spread with nothing but shooters.

The Knicks to match that have to be bold, and at least make the attempt.
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Old 07-16-2012, 07:28 PM   #21
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Default Re: "State you position on the Knicks" thread

I think to beat Miami consistently, you have to either have a quality big man or point guard. Melo can compete with LeBron but James is better. Their areas of weakness are in the post and the point guard position. Chandler is goign to have to start providing more offensively and whoever our pg is will have to win that matchup consistently.
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Old 07-16-2012, 08:14 PM   #22
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Default Re: "State you position on the Knicks" thread

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Originally Posted by franchize
I think to beat Miami consistently, you have to either have a quality big man or point guard. Melo can compete with LeBron but James is better. Their areas of weakness are in the post and the point guard position. Chandler is goign to have to start providing more offensively and whoever our pg is will have to win that matchup consistently.
Cue Steve Nash and the 2012-13 Lakers.
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Old 07-16-2012, 09:13 PM   #23
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Default Re: "State you position on the Knicks" thread

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Originally Posted by Scoooter
Cue Steve Nash and the 2012-13 Lakers.
Or better yet let OKC make the bold move.....

Harden and Ibaka plus picks for Dwight.
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Old 07-16-2012, 11:28 PM   #24
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Default Re: "State you position on the Knicks" thread

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Originally Posted by knickscity
Or better yet let OKC make the bold move.....

Harden and Ibaka plus picks for Dwight.

That deal is a very good one but I really just cant see OKC making such a drastic move.

They were just in the finals with those young guys and have a legit shot to make it to the finals for years to come. Why fix what isn't broken I guess?

I dont know...Westbrook Durant and Dwight would be perfect against the Heats big 3 but I think they like Ibaka and Harden too much
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:31 AM   #25
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Default Re: "State you position on the Knicks" thread

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That deal is a very good one but I really just cant see OKC making such a drastic move.

They were just in the finals with those young guys and have a legit shot to make it to the finals for years to come. Why fix what isn't broken I guess?

I dont know...Westbrook Durant and Dwight would be perfect against the Heats big 3 but I think they like Ibaka and Harden too much
They won't keep both of them.

The tax would be too much.
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:46 AM   #26
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Default Re: "State you position on the Knicks" thread

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Just four days ago, Woodson gushed that the Knicks would absolutely match the Rockets offer sheet and said Lin would be the starter at point guard t oopen training camp.
But that was before Lin secretly flew to Las Vegas to change the offer sheet and turn a four-year, $28 million deal with $19 million guaranteed into a fully guaranteed three-year, $25 million contract with the final year a balloon payment of $14.9 million that Carmelo Anthony called "ridiculous" yesterday.
How ridiculous? The Knicks are expected to be over the luxury-tax threshold for three straight years by 2014-15, and repeat taxpayers will be subject to the harshest of luxury-tax penalties.
If all of Lin's $14.9 million salary comes in over the threshold, the first $5 million will be taxed at a 2.5-to-1 ratio. The next $5 million will be taxed at a 2.75-to-1 ratio. The final $4.9 million is taxed a 3.5-to-1 ratio. The math shows the tax alone on Lin's final year would be $43.4 million, meaning the entire bill that season could be $58.3 million.
Dolan actually might have matched the offer had it been done above board. But as reported by The Post, the Knicks were furious Lin renegotiated the contract after they had told him they would match it, knowing how deadly it would be financially to the organization's coffers because of the tax.
Dolan is all about loyalty and the revamped offer sheet rubbed him the wrong way.

Now that Lin has totally blindsided us and signed that "poison pill" offer sheet from the Rockets, I have lost all respect for him. He was offered almost the same amount of money from the Rockets that everyone knew the Knicks would match. But now the once humble Lin, looks every bit as money hungry as the next guy. I would understand if it was for a substantial amount more then the original offer, but it clearly isn't. This offer sheet was created for the sole purpose of screwing the Knicks over. It takes a fool not to see that.

Now that being said.... I still think we should match it, then either work out a another sign and trade with Houston for maybe:
Kevin Martin & Dalembert for Lin & Thomas. Or ust keep Lin for the next year or 2 then trade him before the "poison pill" kicks in. Either way, we don't lose Lin for nothing


sorry for the double post
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Old 07-17-2012, 12:52 AM   #27
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Default Re: "State you position on the Knicks" thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by franchize
I think at the end of the day, we need 2 stars to win. If we liked Amare as that guy, so be it. Go out, get two stars, and everyone else should be role players getting paid like role players. In today's NBA, you aren't winning with just one big time scorer. You need 2 now. We assumed Amare would be that guy and still can be. We know Melo can be that guy. From there, you get complimentary players. A pass first pg, knockdown shooters and a rugged center. Fill your bench with talented players. A mix of quality bench players and a solid coach. Thats it. From there, you expect your starts to play as such and your role players to do their jobs when called upon. Instead, we got Melo and Amare. Then instead of building around them, we got Chandler and paid him star money but he isn't. From there, we didn't use the rest of our money on sure thing at PG or SG. We spent a bunch money and none of it went to needs. I don't mind paying Novak, but do it AFTER you get a starting sg. Then we spent money on Kidd, a backup pg, before we even had our starting pg secure. Just a bunch of putting the cart before the horse.
impossible buying every single player.
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Old 07-17-2012, 02:12 AM   #28
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Default Re: "State you position on the Knicks" thread

dont get it, if we are willing to buy 2 max playing and a half, but unwilling to fill out the rest of the roster cus of luxury tax, we should have never went this route.

we should match lins contract and in the future, use it as a trade chip
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:38 AM   #29
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Default Re: "State you position on the Knicks" thread

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Originally Posted by bluechox2
dont get it, if we are willing to buy 2 max playing and a half, but unwilling to fill out the rest of the roster cus of luxury tax, we should have never went this route.

we should match lins contract and in the future, use it as a trade chip
I definitely agree with the match and trade, but let's be honest......

Not matching Lin certainly won't be about the tax, it will be about the talent.

And i think at this point even the cash cow piece is overstated just a little as well.

Alot of the merchandising and overseas viewing all of the NBA teams share that, and the Knicks only get a bigger cut on the items sold at the Garden or on their site.

Everything else is BRI related.
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Old 07-17-2012, 06:42 AM   #30
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Default Re: "State you position on the Knicks" thread

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Originally Posted by Rameek
impossible buying every single player.
I'm in full agreement, but it's done now.

It's the complaining that's hilarious at this point.

No one can endorse having Melo and Amare, then complain about the fact the team has no talent behind them.

Even the two top 5 players in the game knew to take less, and had no problem letting Bosh make more than them.
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