Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-24-2007, 07:04 PM   #166
GOBB
Sixers|Eagles|Phillies
 
GOBB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Illadelph live 215
Posts: 51,467
Default

Give it up boozehound. Sober up.
GOBB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2007, 07:11 PM   #167
MiseryCityTexas
National High School Star
 
MiseryCityTexas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,231
Default

david stern's raid against the hip hop culture in basketball continues...................
MiseryCityTexas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2007, 07:15 PM   #168
Mathius
NBA sixth man of the year
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Northeast OH
Posts: 6,103
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
No, the NBA wouldn't win this in court. Players would site instances in their contracts where they are required to stay away from various activities as of now... Riding motercycles, other dangerous sports, drugs...

They would then seek to point out that there is no place in their contracts where they are asked to stay away from establishments such as night clubs... Unfair labor practices, over reaching... The league would lose...

You are wrong. Every company I've ever worked for has a standard contract that says you have to abide by company rules, and that the company reserves to change those rules at any time for any reason.

Hell, a lot of companies I've worked for have made me sign a contract that says they reserve the right to fire you at any time for any or no reason. Just as I have the reason to quit for any or no reason.

There's almost no chance in hell the NBA doesn't have a contract like that.

Mathius
Mathius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2007, 07:41 PM   #169
MaxFly
Stylin' on you
 
MaxFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,405
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
Perhaps you dont understand the original case. The company doesnt allow its empoyees to be smokers at all. In their house, on weekends, on vacation, etc. never ever ever.Nothing in the contract, this was done to existing employees (some of whom had been employed for well over a decade). With random tests and this is all legal (under Michigan employer law). Heres a link. http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/08/business/08smoking.html?ex=1265605200&en=a1cfcdf36447a47c&e i=5088&partner=rssnyt

Perhaps you don't understand... The NBA has something called a players union. The union has the ability to negotiate terms of employment under the current CBA as well as the power to lobby for players against regulations players deem unfair. Stern would have to be able to prove that the league has the right to regulate the off work behavior of all players across 30 cities. Now I'm not sure of the legal standing of the workers in Michigan and whether they had a union or not, but Stern will find that the players union won't stand for this if he presses the matter.

Also, it seems that many of the companies that instituted the practice of regulating worker behavior when workers were off duty were able to do so because there was an absence of any law forbidding it... As a result, employers were able to do these things because of an omission, not because there was a law saying that these practices are lawful. The problem with the NBA is that it will seek to regulate player behavior across many states, many of which likely have laws limiting the powers of employers... What one employer can do in Michigan, Stern will have to try to do for the entire US and a team in Canada... Now lets not forget the fact that the League doesn't employ players... The team organizations do... the owners pay their players, not the league... making things that much more difficult.

Lastly, you posted a number of circumstances that I assume you believe are similar to this one, however you failed to state the legal standing of each of those circumstances? Were the employers sued? Were they forced to pay the employees that were fired as the result of a suit? Were they forced to rehire the employees. Were the employers reprimanded. You can't simply say... "See, someone did something similar here." For example, I can easily say, "See, Stern implemented the use of a new basketball without much player involvement" while leaving out the fact that the players union forced him into withdrawing the new ball.

Yes, those things happened... How did they turn out? Were the employers vindicated?
MaxFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2007, 07:51 PM   #170
MaxFly
Stylin' on you
 
MaxFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,405
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathius
You are wrong. Every company I've ever worked for has a standard contract that says you have to abide by company rules, and that the company reserves to change those rules at any time for any reason.

Hell, a lot of companies I've worked for have made me sign a contract that says they reserve the right to fire you at any time for any or no reason. Just as I have the reason to quit for any or no reason.

There's almost no chance in hell the NBA doesn't have a contract like that.

Mathius

You're forgetting one minor detail that I've mentioned several times in this thread... NBA players work for their organizations, not the league as a whole, so while the players are accountable to various league regulations under various clauses in their contracts, I'm pretty sure all such regulations are work related in connection with on duty activities and illegal activities. The league doesn't reserve the right, under player contracts, to regulate the non-work related activities of players when those activities are legal unless stipulated in the contracts... The league can't make up rules that regulate legal player activities when players are off duty unless agreed upon by the players.
MaxFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2007, 07:52 PM   #171
boozehound
An uglier Lamar Doom
 
boozehound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 24,459
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KWALI
Not only in the U.S but in Africa....I mean anywhere in the continent of Africa is probably more dangerous than any night club in the U.S.
While I hesitate to call you a racist, you are clearly ignorant if you classify all of Africa as the "dark continent". There are some supremely dangerous areas in Africa, but there are also many amazing and safe communities as well. I have colleagues and friends who are from all over the continent who would take great offense at this statement. I myself have only been to Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. I cant imagine lumping an entire continent into one stereotype.
boozehound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2007, 07:56 PM   #172
boozehound
An uglier Lamar Doom
 
boozehound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 24,459
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
You're forgetting one minor detail that I've mentioned several times in this thread... NBA players work for their organizations, not the league as a whole, so while the players are accountable to various league regulations under various clauses in their contracts, I'm pretty sure all such regulations are work related in connection with on duty activities and illegal activities. The league doesn't reserve the right, under player contracts, to regulate the non-work related activities of players when those activities are legal unless stipulated in the contracts... The league can't make up rules that regulate legal player activities when players are off duty unless agreed upon by the players.
So if I work for a McDonald FRANCHISE (same relationship as the League) the corporate entity doesnt establish a code of conduct the local owner I work for does? No its a hierarchical system with multiple levels of authority. Read the excerpt I posted on the last page. In many states, an employer can prohibit you from doing a legal activity outside of work (drinking, bumpersticker, facial hair). Again Im not saying I like it, but that is how it is.

Are you sure the league doesnt reserve the right to reguulate off duty behavior unless stipulated in the contact or are you ASSuming this?
boozehound is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2007, 07:57 PM   #173
MaxFly
Stylin' on you
 
MaxFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,405
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KWALI
Not only in the U.S but in Africa....I mean anywhere in the continent of Africa is probably more dangerous than any night club in the U.S.

You can't be serious...
MaxFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2007, 08:01 PM   #174
gts
Sons of Antartica
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 29,198
Default

95. The league instituted a dress code for players. Do they have the right to do that?


The league has broad powers which enable them to institute a dress code (and the NBPA has always acknowledged the league's right to do so). For example, every player's contract contains a provision which states that the player agrees to be "neatly and fully attired in public." In addition, the Commissioner has the general power to penalize players for conduct (which would include dress) detrimental to the league's best interests.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#95
gts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2007, 08:15 PM   #175
MaxFly
Stylin' on you
 
MaxFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,405
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
So if I work for a McDonald FRANCHISE (same relationship as the League) the corporate entity doesnt establish a code of conduct the local owner I work for does? No its a hierarchical system with multiple levels of authority. Read the excerpt I posted on the last page. In many states, an employer can prohibit you from doing a legal activity outside of work (drinking, bumpersticker, facial hair). Again Im not saying I like it, but that is how it is.

First of all, an analogy between the McDonalds corporation and the league isn't seamless.

NBA owners and players have far more power than the owner of a Micky D's or the guy who works the cash registers... That's just one of the many differences.

Secondly... McDonalds Corp. could not legally issue a directive saying that employees who go to night clubs that aren't sanctioned by the corporation are to be fired or fined... McDonalds has drug policies I'm sure, but outside of illegal activities, I'm sure there is percious little they can control in the lives of their employees when it comes to company policy.

Lastly, you seemed to skip the point I made about there being an absence of laws to limit companies, so I'll make the point again... The reason it seems that most of the companies that you mentioned were able to carry out the practices mentioned is that there is an absence of laws in those states prohibiting or limiting those actions. It's not that they are legal by consideration... It appears that they are legal by omission. There's no law clarifying the legal standing. As a result, companies can take advantage until there is a law limiting those practices.
MaxFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2007, 08:20 PM   #176
MaxFly
Stylin' on you
 
MaxFly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 8,405
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gts
95. The league instituted a dress code for players. Do they have the right to do that?


The league has broad powers which enable them to institute a dress code (and the NBPA has always acknowledged the league's right to do so). For example, every player's contract contains a provision which states that the player agrees to be "neatly and fully attired in public." In addition, the Commissioner has the general power to penalize players for conduct (which would include dress) detrimental to the league's best interests.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#95

Thanks..

So my question would be, is there something in player contracts mandated by the league saying that players are to stay away from certain establishments or that the league has the power to goven player activities when they aren't on duty are on league related business?
MaxFly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2007, 08:31 PM   #177
gts
Sons of Antartica
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 29,198
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxFly
Thanks..

So my question would be, is there something in player contracts mandated by the league saying that players are to stay away from certain establishments or that the league has the power to goven player activities when they aren't on duty are on league related business?


i'm looking for that, i have found the CBA and the base contract that all players /teams use, it's kinda wordy...lol

i'll see what i can find
gts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2007, 10:16 PM   #178
KWALI
erudite
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,112
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by boozehound
While I hesitate to call you a racist, you are clearly ignorant if you classify all of Africa as the "dark continent". There are some supremely dangerous areas in Africa, but there are also many amazing and safe communities as well. I have colleagues and friends who are from all over the continent who would take great offense at this statement. I myself have only been to Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia. I cant imagine lumping an entire continent into one stereotype.

WTF are you talking about.....what a turd

I don't give a **** how your colleagues feel has nothing to do with the point. I have been to very nice places in Africa too eg. Ghana and I was supposed to go to a Civil Rights Conference in Durbin SA like 6 now 7 years ago but that doesn't change the fact that is more dangerous there by the numbers than it is in North America.....

Last edited by KWALI : 01-24-2007 at 10:21 PM.
KWALI is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:41 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy