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Old 06-24-2006, 11:37 PM   #16
Jerm
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ur a dumb ass jerm, everyone knows that, get outta here and go to africa

themelo, will you ever forget me in your lifetime?...
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Old 06-25-2006, 12:44 AM   #17
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possibly one of the most enjoyable threads weve had in awhile.

Although I agree with nearly all of the "its so close" talk between Mike n PIP, I take Pip. I liked his consistency with D more. Some games Mike would just outscore his man but Pip shut people down and got in their heads so damn well all the time. I also liked how Pip didnt get out of the way if there was a chance of being posterized. But other than that small note, I agree with alot of the above, good observations...
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Old 06-25-2006, 12:54 AM   #18
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Regardless, Jordan recovered and missed blocking AI's shot by a fraction of a second.

Yep Jordan recovered both times and almost blocked iverson's shot. Its too bad they didn't meet in the playoffs. I feel MJ would have shut him off even at that stage, had it come down to the serious games. Iverson would have been forced into a number of those 8-25 nights in a series sweep.
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Old 06-25-2006, 02:43 AM   #19
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I'd say Pippen ... most because Pip was taller and even longer in terms of wingspan than MJ, which would allow him to cover 3s and even 4s.

Certainly not to say that Jordan was a shabby defender though. The amount of energy he had left for defense when you factor in all the offensive attention he got is pretty remarkable.
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Old 06-25-2006, 02:58 AM   #20
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Pippen was a better and more versatile defender than Jordan. He should've won multiple dpoy awards. He was able to guard 4 positions extremely well, a better team defender than Jordan and very well disciplined. Probably, well almost certainly the most versatile defender ever. But this is definately debateable as Jordan was a beast defensively too.
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Old 06-25-2006, 10:01 AM   #21
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Becuz we are talking about results it is obviously PIPPEN even when Jordan was in his athletic prime he didn't play defense consistently like PIPPEN........That's what made them the two headed demon during the championship years.

B4 Pippen developed MJ had to do EVERYTHING......He had to be the best defender get other players shots and take over the scoring...... They started winning championships when PIPPEN could takeover the majority of the defensive and set-up responsibilties and have MJ do it part-time.

Pippen's defence was more about covering and forcing you to take tuff shots....MJ was kinda like KB8 in that he actually played D toTAKE THE BALL FROM YOU...but becuz he was much quicker than KB8(WADE quick maybe a hair faster) he could actually do it when he felt the time needed.....But he never played lockdown D unless he felt the opponent was actually challenging him.... Guys like CLYDE DREXLER got MJ's best however. He let guys like Ainge (as a Celtic that quality of player) go at him without much effort until the game was at a time where they needed a stop....

PIPPEN D'd people up start to finish which is harder and he did that to everyone.
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Old 06-25-2006, 10:07 AM   #22
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imagine taking the ball up the court and pippen just squatting down in perfect defensive position and slapping the floor a couple times. I would prolly shiit my pants before just passing it to a random guy on the court.
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Old 06-25-2006, 10:07 AM   #23
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imagine taking the ball up the court and pippen just squatting down in perfect defensive position and slapping the floor a couple times. I would prolly shiit my pants before just passing it to a random guy on the court.
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Old 06-25-2006, 10:07 AM   #24
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wtf. i clicked the post quick reply button TWICE maximum. Can someone delete those? thanks
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Old 06-25-2006, 10:24 AM   #25
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Great topic. Great posts, Loki. Keep em coming.
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Old 04-28-2008, 02:24 PM   #26
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Loki
Jordan also got first-team defensive honors 9 times.

However, although I think that he was a better defender than Pippen when he wanted to be (where do you think Pippen learned to be a great defender from?), Pippen probably has the slight edge in "results" as you say. Some things to keep in mind when making this comparison, however:


-- Their defensive primes were at different times, and only coincided for a year or so. Jordan's defensive prime was from '88-'93, while Pippen's defensive prime was from '93-'97 imo. Therefore, anyone who mostly saw the second three-peat Bulls will almost invariably take Pippen, since he was in his defensive prime, while Jordan was past his (though still excellent on that end of the floor).

-- They had different defensive strengths. My personal opinion is that Jordan was better on the ball in an isolation situation while Pippen was slightly better in terms of team defense (i.e., plugging holes, rotating etc.); Jordan was a better post and fastbreak defender (by a good margin), while Pippen's length made him more of a shotblocking threat on the ball (e.g., to surprise the ball out of a shooter's hands; Pippen was also a better "quick jumper" for blocks on the interior than Jordan was; Jordan had better shotblocking instincts than Pippen overall in terms of off-the-ball blocks, however). They both had great hands for strips, with Jordan having the slight edge. Pippen generally had a wider defensive stance (or at least maintained a wider stance more frequently), which prevented players from getting past him, while Jordan was better at moving his feet. Both had phemonenal defensive instincts (for steals/deflections etc.), though I'd give Jordan the slight edge. Pippen was longer (obviously), but Jordan was quicker, so the space each could cover on the court was similar. They were the #1 and #2 best post helpers in the league for nearly a decade, and Jordan in particular was very adept at reading post situations from the weak side (e.g., he could tell if a post player was going to wheel into the middle or spin baseline, and when they would do so). Both were great at reading plays and snuffing them out (e.g., if a team was trying to run a curl for their SG, or a dive to the basket for their big man, MJ and Pippen would get there first to interfere with the play).


Keep in mind that these advantages for each player are all very slight. For example, Pippen was fantastic against SG/SF's in isolation situations, and Jordan was a great team defender. What puts Pippen over the top by a hair imo is the consistency of his effort on the defensive end. Jordan was incredibly consistent from '88-'93, but pulled it back a bit during that second three-peat due to age and the burden of being his team's primary offensive weapon. Even from '92-'93 Pippen was very consistent, as much so as Jordan. Therefore, overall, Pippen gets the nod.


Anyone saying it's "no contest" (as many on forums are wont to do for some reason) is foolish, though, and likely never saw '88-'93 Jordan (or, at the very least, '95-'98 Pippen is fresher in their minds). I've seen each of them do things defensively that they other didn't (and likely couldn't).

Damn, Loki. That's the best explanation of their defensive abilities I've ever read. I'm gonna just copy it and use it in any discussions about this to my friends. I *may* give you credit...I *may* not
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Old 04-28-2008, 07:17 PM   #27
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

I just finished watching the Bulls vs Knicks 1995, MJ's 1st week back...where he dropped 55 points. All I can say is.....


PIPPEN = most underrated player of all-time.

PIPPEN = probably the one man who could've gave Mj fits on both ends.
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:20 PM   #28
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

Pippen hands down..he defended the best scoring wing man everytime so that MJ could be more of a gambler...look at the old tapes ...
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:33 PM   #29
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShowtymeCA2NC
Pippen hands down..he defended the best scoring wing man everytime so that MJ could be more of a gambler...look at the old tapes ...

Actually, you're completely wrong. Pippen almost exclusively defended 3's save for three exceptions in 10 years: Penny, who was 6'7" anyway, in the '96 ECF, whom Pip guarded about 70% of the time; Magic in the '91 Finals, whom he guarded about 50% of the time along w/Jordan; and Mark Jackson in the '98 ECF. Aside from that, Pippen defended SF's. So if the best perimeter player was a SF, Pippen likely took him; if they were a SG/combo guard/occasionally a PG, Jordan likely took them.

"Look at the old tapes." I have 300 of them, so I know what I'm talking about. Popular misconception, though.
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:34 PM   #30
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

Pippen was probably more consistent of a defender then Jordan...

but a motivated Jordan on defense was scary and on an entire different level... only players today with that kind of beast in them are Kobe and KG.. Im probably missing a few other players but those 2 names really stick out.
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