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Old 04-28-2008, 08:56 PM   #31
ShowtymeCA2NC
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

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Originally Posted by Loki
Actually, you're completely wrong. Pippen almost exclusively defended 3's save for three exceptions in 10 years: Penny, who was 6'7" anyway, in the '96 ECF, whom Pip guarded about 70% of the time; Magic in the '91 Finals, whom he guarded about 50% of the time along w/Jordan; and Mark Jackson in the '98 ECF. Aside from that, Pippen defended SF's. So if the best perimeter player was a SF, Pippen likely took him; if they were a SG/combo guard/occasionally a PG, Jordan likely took them.

"Look at the old tapes." I have 300 of them, so I know what I'm talking about. Popular misconception, though.

yea if u got 300 of em i will take your word..do u work for NBC or suttin
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Old 04-28-2008, 08:59 PM   #32
Da KO King
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

Pippen was more versatile. They were equals in terms of effectiveness.
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:00 PM   #33
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

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Originally Posted by ShowtymeCA2NC
yea if u got 300 of em i will take your word..do u work for NBC or suttin

No, just a fan who taped/purchased lots of games.
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:06 PM   #34
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

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Originally Posted by Da KO King
Pippen was more versatile. They were equals in terms of effectiveness.
my thoughts exactly. jordan was better as a double and recover guy, a better thief, and a better shotblocker as a help defender (though scottie was better at blocking his own guy's shot). pippen was better as a hard trap guy. and where mike could defend three positions adequately, you really only wanted him on sgs. scottie could guard 4 positions adequately, and you were equally comfortable with him on sgs or sfs full time. overall basically a wash except that scottie could guard more spots, so i give it to pip. i do think jordan was a great defender for longer than scottie. scottie wasn't really top notch on d until 91, and injuries started to slow him down before 98. jordan was the best defender at his position for almost 10 years (would have been ten if he didn't miss two seasons).
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:13 PM   #35
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

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my thoughts exactly. jordan was better as a double and recover guy, a better thief, and a better shotblocker as a help defender (though scottie was better at blocking his own guy's shot). pippen was better as a hard trap guy. and where mike could defend three positions adequately, you really only wanted him on sgs. scottie could guard 4 positions adequately, and you were equally comfortable with him on sgs or sfs full time. overall basically a wash except that scottie could guard more spots, so i give it to pip. i do think jordan was a great defender for longer than scottie. scottie wasn't really top notch on d until 91, and injuries started to slow him down before 98. jordan was the best defender at his position for almost 10 years (would have been ten if he didn't miss two seasons).
Honestly I'd rather have Jordan. While normally I prefer versatility the fact that Michael knew that his status in the league meant he would not be called for a third foul in the first half or a sixth is too valuable. When you have a guy that not only won't get whistled but knows he won't get whistled it is a huge advantage.
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:16 PM   #36
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

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Originally Posted by dejordan
and where mike could defend three positions adequately, you really only wanted him on sgs.

MJ could guard PGs pretty darn well.
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Old 04-28-2008, 09:38 PM   #37
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

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... (would have been ten if he didn't miss two seasons).

I think this gets overlooked sometimes. MJ lost 2 years that would have been considered the tail end of his prime. Not physical prime, but *true* prime -- where everything came together.

It's scary to think what would have happened had he stayed. What if he wasn't emotionally burnt out due to his father's murder, gambling accusations and increased media scrutiny? And Pippen was at his best in 94. I think Pip in 94 was at the same level of his game as MJ was in 91. Maybe not his physical prime (although that is debatable) but he put it all together that year. Imagine a prime MJ on that team...

I like to think that MJ would have won a couple more rings and maybe an mvp or two if he played. I know and respect what Hakeem did for the Rockets and the league so I'll leave that as a big question mark, but there is no question the Bulls would have at least gotten to the Finals both times. New York couldn't beat MJ and they knew it, especially after that loss in 93, and Orlando couldn't have handled them the next year. I have to think at the very worst, Chicago would have bagged at least one of those chips.

I'll concede that in this scenario, maybe MJ wouldn't have played as long as 98. I think the rest allowed him to re-energize a little bit.
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Old 04-28-2008, 11:09 PM   #38
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

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Originally Posted by No_Look604
I just finished watching the Bulls vs Knicks 1995, MJ's 1st week back...where he dropped 55 points. All I can say is.....


PIPPEN = most underrated player of all-time.

PIPPEN = probably the one man who could've gave Mj fits on both ends.
lmfao Mj played in pips charity gm(I think it was 1994 check youtube) and tourched pippen.Go look for it.WTH LMAO MJ thought pip most of his moves.
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Old 04-28-2008, 11:36 PM   #39
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

The measure of a player's defensive greatness is his ability to force the other team into turnovers/bad shots. As others have mentioned before, Pippen was the more versatile defender in terms of forcing the opposition away from their strength, whether it was employing a hard trap, swtiching, or shadowing a guy while using his legnth to recover to a position. Jordan was the master of the steal and deflection. While good at forcing teams away from their strength, he was not on Pippen's level in this regard. Give each player the identical defensive teammates and compare the two. Pick the same personnel from the following and add either Jordan or Pippen:

C-Cartwright/Three Headed Monster
PF-Rodman/Grant
SG/SF-Kukoc or Harper
Shooter-Kerr/Paxson/Armstrong

If an average outcome of a possession is about 1 pt, this is close to how it would break down:

Jordan's team: 2 more deflections/steals a game. This would lead to 0 pts for the opposing team's offense (0 pts rather than the expected 2 in 2 possessions) and an easy basket on the resulting two Bulls possessions (3 pts rather than 2). Advantage Jordan by 3 pts.

Pippen's team: There would probably be an extra 5 possessions in a game where Pippen's team would force teams into really bad shots. 2 pts where other team would normally get 5 (+3 pts). Pippen's team would probably also get an extra easy basket off a poor shot and outlet pass (2 pts rather than the expected 1). Advantage Pippen by 4 pts.

net advantage Pippen by a pt or so.

It's close, but I'd take the general impact the Pippen had from a team defensive standpoint over Jordan's ability to force the extra turnovers. In fairness, Jordan had greater offensive responsibilities, and when he needed to lock down, he was probably marginally better. Based upon what actually happened in the course of a game regardless of their duties on the other end, I'd take Pippen.
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:32 AM   #40
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

Scottie Pippen is better than any defender in the NBA right now but Jordan was the better defender. Scottie was quiet, long, and athletic. Jordan was a warrior and never lost a battle. He'd get in your head and own you on the court. Nobody was better than Jordan. not on defense, not on offense, not anywhere.
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:45 AM   #41
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

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Originally Posted by JPR
Scottie Pippen is better than any defender in the NBA right now but Jordan was the better defender. Scottie was quiet, long, and athletic. Jordan was a warrior and never lost a battle. He'd get in your head and own you on the court. Nobody was better than Jordan. not on defense, not on offense, not anywhere.


Common misconception by most Jordan fans. Just because he's the greatest player ever, doesn't mean he is the greatest at everything. Though I'm sure you Jordan groupies could make a good case.
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:49 AM   #42
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

well, he's most def got it down when it comes to bangin blondes. i said ANYWHERE. why do you think LeBronze sports #23. he wants to be like mike. who doesn't?
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:58 AM   #43
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

Pippen
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:00 AM   #44
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

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Pippen was more versatile. They were equals in terms of effectiveness.

+1
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Old 04-29-2008, 01:03 AM   #45
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Default Re: who is a more effective defender, Jordan or Pippen?

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Originally Posted by JPR
well, he's most def got it down when it comes to bangin blondes. i said ANYWHERE. why do you think LeBronze sports #23. he wants to be like mike. who doesn't?

"You don't want to be me. You want to be better then me..."
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