Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > NBA Team Forums > Sacramento Kings Forum

Sacramento Kings Forum Sacramento Kings forum - Sacramento Kings message board

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-21-2007, 01:40 AM   #1
BradMiller52
Kings fan
 
BradMiller52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: I wanna get paid like Mikki
Posts: 2,724
BradMiller52 has an OK reputation so far
Default Musselman skating on thin ice...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sac Bee
Ailene Voisin: Coach taking share of lumps

By Ailene Voisin - Bee Columnist

Last Updated 12:11 am PST Saturday, January 20, 2007
Story appeared in SPORTS section, Page C1

Eric Musselman returned to the head-coaching ranks in a very difficult arena. Let's acknowledge that from the outset. He inherited a team in transition, signed on with a locker room of grumpy guys who, when even on their best collective behavior, merely rate as potential contenders for a ninth consecutive Western Conference playoff berth.

So you can't fire the guy, yet.

That would be cruel, unusual and premature punishment, especially for someone who is asked to win while preserving the shaky marriage of Mike Bibby and Ron Artest. The inevitable breakup of the two veterans figures to be messy, with the custody battle involving everything from the basketball to the dining room table.

No, Musselman deserves a reasonable grace period here. Informal polls and heated fan reaction notwithstanding, there are mitigating circumstances for the Kings' inglorious slump, and talent-wise, more gaps on the roster than potholes in the parking lot at Arco Arena.

The undersized power forwards fail to rebound. The center is shrinking by the season. The small forward and point guard share the ball only when absolutely necessary. The emerging young star is perplexed and often ignored in the offense (see feuding veterans). The lack of frontcourt length and athleticism is frightening, and almost as intimidating as the toxic mix of personalities.

Yet the Kings are certainly talented enough to convert free throws, execute something resembling an offense, reach for rebounds, raise a hand and contest shots on defense. They should be prevailing on their once formidable home court instead of performing sluggishly and succumbing to silly mistakes in overtime. They should at least pretend to earn their hefty salaries.

And as the man in charge, Musselman takes the heat. He also has yet to answer the question: Was he the best choice to succeed Rick Adelman and guide the franchise into the next era?

If Kings president of basketball operations Geoff Petrie were an impulsive sort, he would be soliciting signatures for a recall as we speak.

Musselman's poll numbers are slipping fast. He was hired because of his youthful energy, enthusiasm and work ethic, because his former Golden State Warriors teams overachieved during his two seasons in Oakland, and because, well, because none of the defense-oriented superstars were available.

So far it isn't working. None of it. The offense, the defense. The relationships. Musselman, who signed a three-year deal, is 0-for-the-season in the front office and in the locker room.

"We've given him support from the beginning," said Petrie, "tried to comply with the things he wanted. We all felt going in that we could compete for a playoff spot. If we don't start winning soon . ... "

In other words, to figure into the team's short and long-term plans, Musselman, 41, better gain control of the situation soon. Even millionaires want returns on their investments. While Petrie and the Maloofs remain supportive, they hear rumblings that their young coach is intimidated by Bibby and Artest, that he refuses to define roles and demand compliance.

The end result is utter emotional stagnation, the players' revealing body language characterized by a set of permanently slumped shoulders. Furthermore, Musselman's own sideline demeanor is hardly inspirational; frowning, fretting, his hands often finding his face in frustration, his negative vibes appear to be spreading like a virus.

This is last winter with Adelman all over again, with one significant distinction: for a team to quit on a coach whose voice resonated for the better part of eight seasons is not only understandable, it's the NBA norm. The script gets old. The ears turn deaf. Owners routinely treat attention deficit disorder by firing coaches to avoid the widespread use of pharmaceuticals.

But a four-month tryout? Won't happen. Nor should it. Musselman deserves time to prove that he can command a huddle, that he gained from his experiences at Golden State without losing his nerve in the process, though this latest undertaking has been made more difficult by his own misjudgments.

Getting tagged with a DUI charge surely didn't elevate his stature as an authority figure within the locker room. Perhaps even more damaging is his failure to hire an elderly bench assistant to provide balance and perspective. A young Pat Riley had Bill Bertka. Phil Jackson had Tex Winter and Johnny Bach. Don Nelson had John Killilea. Gregg Popovich had Hank Egan. Avery Johnson has Del Harris ...

Musselman's staff by contrast is surprisingly young, with T.R. Dunn the oldest at 51. Nonetheless, in light of the schedule and the blown opportunities, they all better grow up soon.
http://www.sacbee.com/351/story/110954.html
---------------------------------------------------------------

Geoff sounds pretty displeased with Muss and this quote/article is from BEFORE the Detroit game. I think he's probably even angrier/disgusted now. I guess the DUI, the underachieving record, the lockerroom trouble, and now the "Musselman told me upper management doesn't want Jason playing" quote from Hart's agent have added up. He seems to have no control on the team. He has no offense and his defense sucks too. It seems like Musselman is on thin ice.
BradMiller52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2007, 02:10 AM   #2
Perezident
Kings>>>Clippers
 
Perezident's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,720
Perezident has no real reputation yet.
Default

hmmmmm good post bmiller

i've always lived off this saying from when i was small kid growing up...

"what ever glitters isnt gold" and that comes into play in this same situation

To tell you the truth i wasnt a Muss fan due to his signing. I really felt like Mario Ellie would of bin better. But that cliche' comes into play at this: Muss dazzled (What a Flamare!!) the ma"GOOFS" with his "preparedness" and his "wanting to win" act in those interviews. I came under the impression that you have to be organised now to being a good coach!!

So what if Ellie's Folders had dog ears on em and maybe his presantation was all mumbled and he was studdering. WHO GIVES!!! imo

The fact that Muss came into the interview with a suite and tie on, lamenated his presantation and was well organised got him the job imo.
They (petrie magoofs) didnt pick the right man for the job. But now we are just sewing what we reap....The guy clearly doesnt kno what he's doing. But i'll be the first one to give him the benefit of the doubt. HE DOESNT HAVE THE PLAYERS.

when he does get the players then by all means let the judging begin!
Perezident is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2007, 03:45 AM   #3
Showtime
Hardwood Hero
 
Showtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,371
Showtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation here
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perezident
hmmmmm good post bmiller

i've always lived off this saying from when i was small kid growing up...

"what ever glitters isnt gold" and that comes into play in this same situation

To tell you the truth i wasnt a Muss fan due to his signing. I really felt like Mario Ellie would of bin better. But that cliche' comes into play at this: Muss dazzled (What a Flamare!!) the ma"GOOFS" with his "preparedness" and his "wanting to win" act in those interviews. I came under the impression that you have to be organised now to being a good coach!!

So what if Ellie's Folders had dog ears on em and maybe his presantation was all mumbled and he was studdering. WHO GIVES!!! imo

The fact that Muss came into the interview with a suite and tie on, lamenated his presantation and was well organised got him the job imo.
They (petrie magoofs) didnt pick the right man for the job. But now we are just sewing what we reap....The guy clearly doesnt kno what he's doing. But i'll be the first one to give him the benefit of the doubt. HE DOESNT HAVE THE PLAYERS.

when he does get the players then by all means let the judging begin!
He doesn't have the players? Besides Bonzi, this team did pretty damn well the second half of last season. Bibby wasn't in a funk, Ron was happy, and size doesn't matter when you are hitting shots. Like the article said: simple mistakes cost games. It's not that we don't have talented players, it's that they are bad this season, and without a steadfast leader, this team is going nowhere. We have a bunch of vets and I don't think they respect Muss at all. We need a new coach and to make a few moves, and build on the young talent instead of dumping them (like Hedo, Wallace, and Barnes).
Showtime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2007, 03:52 AM   #4
BradMiller52
Kings fan
 
BradMiller52's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: I wanna get paid like Mikki
Posts: 2,724
BradMiller52 has an OK reputation so far
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showtime
He doesn't have the players? Besides Bonzi, this team did pretty damn well the second half of last season. Bibby wasn't in a funk, Ron was happy, and size doesn't matter when you are hitting shots. Like the article said: simple mistakes cost games. It's not that we don't have talented players, it's that they are bad this season, and without a steadfast leader, this team is going nowhere. We have a bunch of vets and I don't think they respect Muss at all. We need a new coach and to make a few moves, and build on the young talent instead of dumping them (like Hedo, Wallace, and Barnes).



That is pretty much the truth. I mean this team even played well when Bonzi was injured last year after we got Ron. Rick did badly without Ron, but he did great with Ron. Muss has Ron and he's doing crappy. We had an actual offense last season that the players liked and Rick was actually a better defensive coach too. Adelman went 26-14 with this roster and that wasn't good enough. It's not like Rick had time either, SAR had just been signed in the offseason, Bonzi was new and he was in and out of the line up, Martin wasn't a 20 PPG scorer yet, we had no back up PG, SAR was injured some, Peja was in and out of the line up, and then Ron finally got here. Muss has had more games with this roster(the one with Artest) and his team is 15-23. If Musselman doesn't have the players to do something then Adelman is a miracle worker because he turned a pile of crap into a playoff team.

Play the young talent, get a good draft pick, and blow this team up. We need youth, free agents, and a new coach.
BradMiller52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2007, 02:16 PM   #5
Showtime
Hardwood Hero
 
Showtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,371
Showtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation here
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BradMiller52
That is pretty much the truth. I mean this team even played well when Bonzi was injured last year after we got Ron. Rick did badly without Ron, but he did great with Ron. Muss has Ron and he's doing crappy. We had an actual offense last season that the players liked and Rick was actually a better defensive coach too. Adelman went 26-14 with this roster and that wasn't good enough. It's not like Rick had time either, SAR had just been signed in the offseason, Bonzi was new and he was in and out of the line up, Martin wasn't a 20 PPG scorer yet, we had no back up PG, SAR was injured some, Peja was in and out of the line up, and then Ron finally got here. Muss has had more games with this roster(the one with Artest) and his team is 15-23. If Musselman doesn't have the players to do something then Adelman is a miracle worker because he turned a pile of crap into a playoff team.

Play the young talent, get a good draft pick, and blow this team up. We need youth, free agents, and a new coach.
Adleman made it easier for his guys to execute. He and his staff played to their players' strengths and had a system that worked for them. I think he could have this team at 5+ games above .500 if he were allowed to re-sign. The Magoofs have finally realized that it's not about defense: it's about execution. Adleman had the offense down, and his team played decent defence on occasion. Muss can't get the offense going, and his team plays bad defense and can't rebound. They almost lost to the Celtics for God's sake.

I really wish they would sign Doug back, since he's healthy and looking for a team. He doesn't want money, so it would be cheap, and he can help Martin and Garcia develop defensively. We need to resign Corliss IMO, and dump K-9 and Mo and Miller for some talented big men. Resign Justin Williams and use Miller in a package for Pau or Curry or Foster + Jermaine Oneal. And for crying out loud, play Price and Hart when Bibby is chucking bad shots. When players aren't hot, don't leave them in there to miss (thanks Rick for doing that in playoffs), get guys in who could provide a spark.
Showtime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-21-2007, 03:22 PM   #6
d_white089
Let's Go.....
 
d_white089's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,806
d_white089 has an incredible reputation hered_white089 has an incredible reputation hered_white089 has an incredible reputation hered_white089 has an incredible reputation hered_white089 has an incredible reputation hered_white089 has an incredible reputation here
Default

Musselman was a bad hire anyway..you could tell from his last job he wasn't an effective NBA coach..Sacto is getting what they deserve for hiring him..which will be a high lottery pick.
d_white089 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2007, 01:34 AM   #7
Perezident
Kings>>>Clippers
 
Perezident's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,720
Perezident has no real reputation yet.
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showtime
He doesn't have the players? Besides Bonzi, this team did pretty damn well the second half of last season. Bibby wasn't in a funk, Ron was happy, and size doesn't matter when you are hitting shots. Like the article said: simple mistakes cost games. It's not that we don't have talented players, it's that they are bad this season, and without a steadfast leader, this team is going nowhere. We have a bunch of vets and I don't think they respect Muss at all. We need a new coach and to make a few moves, and build on the young talent instead of dumping them (like Hedo, Wallace, and Barnes).
when i said he doesnt have the players i meant (MUSS AND HIS STYLE OF PLAY)...obviously he is a different coach than Adelman! ...Even tho we have the same team we arent winning ....Adelman had a system that kind of worked well for the roster...Phil cant make us a winning team with his "SYSTEM" because he wouldnt haave the players that would Fit....And that the saga what Muss is in now. Muss system depends on certain type players....

As the same for Phil's system....(even tho i hate admitting this) but if the lakers got that Big PG which they covet so badly they will be a dangerous team. Imagine a guy like Salmons on the lakers who is perfect for the triangle!!! In basketball its all about "systems" and style of play that determines if you are Going to be what type of team. Thats the reason why the lakers Love odom. A guy like SAR would be terrible in that "system"

so i believe if/when Muss gets his style type players on the squad then i'm sure we will see a difference either in TWO WAYS.....1)For the better 2)For the worse
Perezident is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2007, 12:47 PM   #8
Showtime
Hardwood Hero
 
Showtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,371
Showtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation here
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Perezident
when i said he doesnt have the players i meant (MUSS AND HIS STYLE OF PLAY)...obviously he is a different coach than Adelman! ...Even tho we have the same team we arent winning ....Adelman had a system that kind of worked well for the roster...Phil cant make us a winning team with his "SYSTEM" because he wouldnt haave the players that would Fit....And that the saga what Muss is in now. Muss system depends on certain type players....

As the same for Phil's system....(even tho i hate admitting this) but if the lakers got that Big PG which they covet so badly they will be a dangerous team. Imagine a guy like Salmons on the lakers who is perfect for the triangle!!! In basketball its all about "systems" and style of play that determines if you are Going to be what type of team. Thats the reason why the lakers Love odom. A guy like SAR would be terrible in that "system"

so i believe if/when Muss gets his style type players on the squad then i'm sure we will see a difference either in TWO WAYS.....1)For the better 2)For the worse

Good coaches coach to their players' strengths, and don't try to run a system that won't work. Adleman knew that a half court, slow offense wouldn't work. So, he went with a motion in the half court and his team wasn't afraid to run and gun. It worked. Muss is a bad coach because he doesn't play to his players' strengths. His system isn't working, so instead of trying to change these players, either change the system or get guys who can play in that system. It isn't working.
Showtime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2007, 01:43 PM   #9
LAZYBOY
PERMA-BANNED
 
LAZYBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Keeping MothaJeffers Cockupied
Posts: 786
LAZYBOY has an OK reputation so far
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showtime
Good coaches coach to their players' strengths, and don't try to run a system that won't work. Adleman knew that a half court, slow offense wouldn't work. So, he went with a motion in the half court and his team wasn't afraid to run and gun. It worked. Muss is a bad coach because he doesn't play to his players' strengths. His system isn't working, so instead of trying to change these players, either change the system or get guys who can play in that system. It isn't working.

I would have to disagree that Muss doesn't coach to his players strengths. He brought the corner series back in the offense so that Bibby would be more effective. He keeps Reef down low, he plays Brad up high. He tries to keep Ron down low but he kind of does whatever he wants, as well as Bibby. The problem is you can't coach shotblocking. These guys can play defense all day long, but if there aren't capable big men down low it won't matter. And nobody give me this Justin Williams crap either, there's a reason why the guy can't seem to make an NBA roster. He's got potential, that's it. This team has no identity, just like Sir Charles said. Ron wants to be the man, Mike wants to be the man.....well neither of them are good enough to run the show. The sooner Petrie and the Maloofs figure this out and start rebuilding, the sooner Muss will start improving as a coach. Remember when Dallas was a terrible team on D? Well, they put Avery in charge and made ROSTER MOVES! Now they play D. It's as simple as that.
LAZYBOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2007, 02:46 PM   #10
Showtime
Hardwood Hero
 
Showtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,371
Showtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation here
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAZYBOY
I would have to disagree that Muss doesn't coach to his players strengths. He brought the corner series back in the offense so that Bibby would be more effective. He keeps Reef down low, he plays Brad up high. He tries to keep Ron down low but he kind of does whatever he wants, as well as Bibby.
That's the point. He lets guys do whatever they want, and he doesn't have the balls to tell them to do it or bench them. Ron is a great post player because of his physical skills at the 3 spot, but he lets Ron jack up perimeter shots all day, and he lets Bibby take outside shots too early in the clock.

Quote:
The problem is you can't coach shotblocking. These guys can play defense all day long, but if there aren't capable big men down low it won't matter. And nobody give me this Justin Williams crap either, there's a reason why the guy can't seem to make an NBA roster. He's got potential, that's it. This team has no identity, just like Sir Charles said. Ron wants to be the man, Mike wants to be the man.....well neither of them are good enough to run the show. The sooner Petrie and the Maloofs figure this out and start rebuilding, the sooner Muss will start improving as a coach. Remember when Dallas was a terrible team on D? Well, they put Avery in charge and made ROSTER MOVES! Now they play D. It's as simple as that.

As long as Muss wants to be friends and not a coach, this team will lose. He needs to step to his guys and take charge, which he hasn't. He lets Bibby and ROn do whatever they want, doesn't get Kevin involved as much as he should, and just sits on the sideline pouting at this team.
Showtime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2007, 02:59 PM   #11
LAZYBOY
PERMA-BANNED
 
LAZYBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Keeping MothaJeffers Cockupied
Posts: 786
LAZYBOY has an OK reputation so far
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Showtime
That's the point. He lets guys do whatever they want, and he doesn't have the balls to tell them to do it or bench them. Ron is a great post player because of his physical skills at the 3 spot, but he lets Ron jack up perimeter shots all day, and he lets Bibby take outside shots too early in the clock.



As long as Muss wants to be friends and not a coach, this team will lose. He needs to step to his guys and take charge, which he hasn't. He lets Bibby and ROn do whatever they want, doesn't get Kevin involved as much as he should, and just sits on the sideline pouting at this team.

I totally agree with you on that point, Muss is letting the players run the team. Which is why I think they should trade Mike and Ron so that Muss can start fresh. Who else is available to coach this team? Paul Silas will slap these guys around but I don't about him. I can't think of anybody else.
LAZYBOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2007, 03:20 PM   #12
Showtime
Hardwood Hero
 
Showtime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,371
Showtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation hereShowtime has an incredible reputation here
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAZYBOY
I totally agree with you on that point, Muss is letting the players run the team. Which is why I think they should trade Mike and Ron so that Muss can start fresh. Who else is available to coach this team? Paul Silas will slap these guys around but I don't about him. I can't think of anybody else.
If Muss can't control his team in half a season, it doesn't matter what players he has. He doesn't need a fresh start, he's got one this season. Comming to the Kings was his fresh start. He's an NBA coach, so if he can't stand up and coach Bibby and Ron, he can't coach anybody. There are bigger stars out there than Bibby and Ron, and if we make moves and bring somebody else in, how can he coach them if he can't stand up to Bibby? How will the other guys on the team respect a coach like that? I think that's the problem. Other guys see Muss isn't taking control, so they don't care either. We shipped Jason Williams out because he was out of control, and now it seems Bibby has reverted to a young Jason and Jason has matured and he has a ring. The point is that if a guy is out of control, make him shape up or ship him out. If Muss can't reach these guys, move them or fire Muss. Bibby hasn't been this bad his in his career, so is it him or is it Muss, or something else?

Last edited by Showtime : 01-22-2007 at 03:23 PM.
Showtime is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2007, 05:26 PM   #13
LAZYBOY
PERMA-BANNED
 
LAZYBOY's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Keeping MothaJeffers Cockupied
Posts: 786
LAZYBOY has an OK reputation so far
Default

Nobody knows what's really going on behind the scenes, besides who do you replace Muss with? Who's out there worth a shot? I can't think of anybody worth a crap.
LAZYBOY is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-22-2007, 07:47 PM   #14
bigboi_baller
NBA rookie of the year
 
bigboi_baller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Cold side of the pillow
Posts: 6,853
bigboi_baller is popular on this boardbigboi_baller is popular on this boardbigboi_baller is popular on this boardbigboi_baller is popular on this board
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LAZYBOY
Nobody knows what's really going on behind the scenes, besides who do you replace Muss with? Who's out there worth a shot? I can't think of anybody worth a crap.
I think the roster needs to be changes before the coach is. Which leads me to my new avatar.
bigboi_baller is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:14 AM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy