Basically what you are doing here is giving a best possible scenario for all other teams and a worse possible scenario for our team.
"The Bulls have all-stars on their team so they will play great without Rose, and then he'll pull his +.500 team back to the top of the Eastern conference and make an unprecedented deep playoff run while only having 1, maybe 2 months of the season under his belt.
The Knicks just picked up 3 superstars and now have a big 5 with old ass Jason Kidd and Camby added into the mix of the current cast. And despite their major underachievements over the past 2 seasons, they will suddenly not have chemistry issues and effort level issues and be a powerhouse in the East.
The Sixers who were only an 8th seed to begin with who have done nothing that would indicate a jump from there up into the East's elite 2 will be a power house this year because of a good coach and several young talents.
The Bucks who have 2 guys who have also proven nothing, will suddenly prove something this year and journeyman Sam Dalembert is gonna be the guy to ensure that of happening."
It's like give me a f*cking break dude. Any team outside of the top 3 in the east (Miami, Boston, NJ) could give 100 reasons why their team will underachieve and 1000 reasons why the rest of the teams around them will overachieve. We have a good solid squad here, period. We upgraded at 4 out of 5 starter positions IMO (Ross, Val, Lowry, Fields). How many other teams outside of NJ can say they had that much of an overhaul? You've never seemed to be such a glass half empty guy before. What happened bro? I would call you the new Q of this forum, but at least Q is realistic.
^^ haha, agreed but now Philly definitely made a POWER move. I love Iggy, but getting the 2nd best Center in the league for him definitely vaults them into that top 4 discussion.
Not trying to be negative - trying to be realistic.
I like the talent potential of this team.. but its 2 years and probably one more player away from making an impact - before or after the Dwight trade.
Listen if I am wrong - I will happily eat crow and apologize to you guys right here
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Even before the move I had 3 tiers of teams...
Miami - Boston - Indiana
Philly (now up) - Brooklyn - Knicks - Chicago (waiting for Rose)
Atlanta - Washington - Orlando (now down).
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That is 9 or 10 teams ahead of Toronto playoff bound.
Teams that have a blend of talent AND EXPERIENCE.
Yes Camby and Kidd do matter cause Hall of Fame vets solve chemisty issues on teams like the Knicks. They have the cred to tell Melo or Amare to shut up and play.
Yes players like Okafur and Ariza matter to a team like Washington - where they added vet depth and dedication to a talented core of Nene - Wall - Beal.
10th place in the east - projects out to 25 - 30 wins.
Not trying to be negative - trying to be realistic.
I like the talent potential of this team.. but its 2 years and probably one more player away from making an impact - before or after the Dwight trade.
Listen if I am wrong - I will happily eat crow and apologize to you guys right here
--
Even before the move I had 3 tiers of teams...
Miami - Boston - Indiana
Philly (now up) - Brooklyn - Knicks - Chicago (waiting for Rose)
Atlanta - Washington - Orlando (now down).
--
That is 9 or 10 teams ahead of Toronto playoff bound.
Teams that have a blend of talent AND EXPERIENCE.
Yes Camby and Kidd do matter cause Hall of Fame vets solve chemisty issues on teams like the Knicks. They have the cred to tell Melo or Amare to shut up and play.
Yes players like Okafur and Ariza matter to a team like Washington - where they added vet depth and dedication to a talented core of Nene - Wall - Beal.
10th place in the east - projects out to 25 - 30 wins.
So basically what you're saying is the Raps are the only team in the NBA with question marks? I'm sure some of the other teams have question marks too. They were worse than Toronto last year and then all of a sudden they project to be better.
Orlando lost Dwight. I think they're going to be close to the bottom. They could barely compete without him last year.
Wiz have John Wall turning the ball over and shooting low percentages all the time. Plus how much will Beal contribute he's a rookie shooting guard.
Kidd and Camby are way past their prime. Knicks would be lucky if Camby could play more than 20 minutes a game and if both can stay healthy for an entire season. Plus Stat gets injured every fricken year.
Milwaukee has no post game whatsoever. I don't even think they have Drew Gooden returning.
Cleveland would be my sleeper pick for though. Irving is going to be one damn good player if he could stay healthy IMO. If irvig is healthy id say they have a shot. However, we are lucky they gave us Val.
Detroit will have Drummond playing some limited minutes. He won't contribute they year. Way too raw.
Sure these players might matter but IMO you need Allstars to change rosters to make significant impact and other than Nash and that 4 way trade we have made the biggest impact. Plus the east is just wide open, but you have to give the Raps a shot at the playoffs.
Sure these players might matter but IMO you need Allstars to change rosters to make significant impact and other than Nash and that 4 way trade we have made the biggest impact.
Plus the east is just wide open, but you have to give the Raps a shot at the playoffs.
Sort of agreed. I guess I value vetern talent and "near star quality" more than you. Especially with a regular season coming on. Especially in terms of "predictable contribution" compared to unknown performance like Val / Ross/
Okafor
NBA Rookie of the Year: 2005
NBA All-Rookie First Team: 2005
Ariza
has finished in the top 10 in the NBA in steals per game in each of the past two seasons (ninth in 2008-09 at 1.67 and sixth in 2009-10 at 1.75) … stands as the first Rockets player to record two or more steals in 10-straight games (10 games: 3/19/10-4/6/10) since Calvin Murphy in 1979-80 (12 games: 12/8/79-1/4/80) … owns 16 career 20-point games and two 30-point outings … has posted 12 career double-doubles, including one career triple-double (26 points, 10 rebounds and 10 assists on 4/14/10 vs. New Orleans).
Camby and Kidd have been all-stars albiet in the past.
No worries - post your predictions in the EC standings thread... time will tell.
Ariza...owns 16 career 20-point games and two 30-point outings … has posted 12 career double-doubles, including one career triple-double (26 points, 10 rebounds and 10 assists on 4/14/10 vs. New Orleans).[/b]
I really think those are pointless stats. You can look at most average NBA players and find a similar bunch of games where they played really well.
Well, I guess I'm back watching this crappy team lol
We'll probably finish somewhere around 8-11, and our pick is off to Houston anyways(although I love the Lowry pickup).
Seriously thought I was finally done with this team, but for some strange odd reason, I can't seem to let them go I was just pissed off at the team essentially pissing away a shot at drafting a legit building block to pair up with Jonas in favor of "moral victory" crap. If there ever was a season to tank, it was last year with the lockout and being a deep draft.
Oh well, I'm looking forward to seeing Jonas finally play and I've kinda warmed up to the Ross pick. Hoping that Landry Fields is next summer's amnesty victim or that he has some kind of condition that allows us to void his contract or something.
I really think those are pointless stats. You can look at most average NBA players and find a similar bunch of games where they played really well.
I think so too. As is taking players that are far removed from their primes and saying what a huge impact they're gonna make because they are going to be HOF after they retire. What matters is current contributions, not what has been done years ago, not what has the potential to be done later, what is being done right now, in the present.
I think so too. As is taking players that are far removed from their primes and saying what a huge impact they're gonna make because they are going to be HOF after they retire. What matters is current contributions, not what has been done years ago, not what has the potential to be done later, what is being done right now, in the present.
Like I say gents maybe I over value veteren talent. Maybe...
Personally i am willing to bet a beer I am right
I mean Ariza in question isnt even projected to be the starter behind Vesely (spelling). Okfur / Camby / Kidd will all get the majority of their minutes in rotation. Soem starting but mostly rotation.
Vets adapt to new systems quicker than rookies. Vets can take on younger egos and tell them to shut up and play. Vets set good work ethic examples. Vets use wisdom to adapt to other teams plays and player.
If I am "overvaluing" vet talent - you may be overvaluing youthful talent.
What if Val comes into Toronto and plays the first 50 games with 3 and 4 foul troubles int he first half and sits 18 minutes + on the bench Q2 Q3 ? I am not saying it will happen that way - but rookie international centers dont get the calls vets do - they often get the bad calls.
What if Landry Fields - avg 11 minutes on the Knick team - 3 seasons experience - isnt as good a defender as we think ? what if playing major minutes exposes slow foot speed. Remember Fields demonstrates upside but did not pull in major minutes against Paul Pierce, Lbron, et al. He was mostly on the bench.
I am obviously "overstating the negative here to make a point" - but I am not the only one that sees the Raptors 2 steps back - and one player away from 8th in the East....
Maybe its degree. You see Raptors competative for 8th - I see them not competative by mid February i.e. locked out of playoff contention.
Either way if you live in TO we can trade a beer over it sometime... especially if Raps beat the damn Knicks.
Like I say gents maybe I over value veteren talent. Maybe...
Personally i am willing to bet a beer I am right
I mean Ariza in question isnt even projected to be the starter behind Vesely (spelling). Okfur / Camby / Kidd will all get the majority of their minutes in rotation. Soem starting but mostly rotation.
Vets adapt to new systems quicker than rookies. Vets can take on younger egos and tell them to shut up and play. Vets set good work ethic examples. Vets use wisdom to adapt to other teams plays and player.
If I am "overvaluing" vet talent - you may be overvaluing youthful talent.
What if Val comes into Toronto and plays the first 50 games with 3 and 4 foul troubles int he first half and sits 18 minutes + on the bench Q2 Q3 ? I am not saying it will happen that way - but rookie international centers dont get the calls vets do - they often get the bad calls.
What if Landry Fields - avg 11 minutes on the Knick team - 3 seasons experience - isnt as good a defender as we think ? what if playing major minutes exposes slow foot speed. Remember Fields demonstrates upside but did not pull in major minutes against Paul Pierce, Lbron, et al. He was mostly on the bench.
I am obviously "overstating the negative here to make a point" - but I am not the only one that sees the Raptors 2 steps back - and one player away from 8th in the East....
Maybe its degree. You see Raptors competative for 8th - I see them not competative by mid February i.e. locked out of playoff contention.
Either way if you live in TO we can trade a beer over it sometime... especially if Raps beat the damn Knicks.
Landry Fields was a starter on the Knicks team in which he played about 30 minutes in both seasons. You're not overstating the negative you're not even listing out facts at all.
With Val we'll see too I wouldn't look to much into his limited minutes at FIBA because he didn't get a 4th foul in each of the games that he played. Yeah he'll have foul trouble but it shouldn't keep him on the bench for long
The fact that you think the Raps took 2 steps back is a joke
Just compare this roster to the one that we had for majority of last season. We should be competing for eighth
2011/2012
Calderon / Bayless / Uzoh
Derozan / Barbosa / Butler (he got minutes)
Johnson / Kleiza / Forbes
Bargs / Davis
Amir / Gray / Alabi
We won't ever have to put a player like Butler in or even Kleiza in for the much. If Val does pick up a lot of fouls we have Ed Davis, Gray, and Amir that we can put in. They are also veterans, no longer rookies. Gray has been on goods teams and knows the NBA same with Amir.
Their are only 2 rookies. I'd bet that only one of them gets a lot of minutes and starts.
I expect Toronto to be basically where they were this past season. They've added Valanciunas and Lowry, and will hopefully have a healthy Bargnani. Those are definite pluses.
The negative for Toronto is that they already play in a division with a powerful Boston team, and the improved rosters of the Knicks, Nets and Sixers. Toronto plays these 4 teams more than any other team in the league, which will significantly hurt their record.
In short, I think the Raptors improved the roster, but I think their competition have improved theirs more.
Thing about it is, our division already had 3 playoff teams. (Philly, Boston, NY). Those 3 teams which were already well ahead of us last year got stronger. You can now throw NJ in that mix. 3 of the top 6 team in the EC got significantly worse (Orlando, ATL, Chicago*) So you could plug in NJ into one of those spots. But it's huge to me that 3 of the top 6 teams lost their best players. The top 5 seems pretty set, the bottom 3 is up in the air.
Re: SLAM on the Raps
