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Old 08-04-2012, 03:18 AM   #1
fpliii
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Default Who wins the 2009 NBA Title if Kevin Garnett is 100% healthy (and fallout)?

I'm not taking a side here, but I'd love to hear what all of you have to say.

Assuming the seeding is identical (pretty fair assumption IMO), here are the series that could possibly have been affected:

ECSF: Orlando Magic over Boston Celtics (4-3)
ECF: Orlando Magic over Cleveland Cavaliers (4-2)
NBA Finals: Los Angeles Lakers over Orlando Magic (4-1).

Here are a few questions to ponder when formulating your posts:

(1) Would the results be the same for those three series?

(2) How would the legacies of players involved in those series (Garnett, Rondo, Pierce, Allen, Kobe, Gasol, LeBron) and/or the coaches (Phil, Doc, Mike Brown, SvG) have changed?

(3) What would the results have been down the line (Dwight doesn't opt back in, Bynum is traded, LeBron stays in Cleveland, Big Three break up earlier or later)?

What do you think?

Last edited by fpliii : 08-04-2012 at 03:22 AM.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:20 AM   #2
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Default Re: Who wins the 2009 NBA Title if Kevin Garnett was 100% healthy?

Celtics easily make the Finals, still think they lose to the Lakers in 6 or 7.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:21 AM   #3
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Default Re: Who wins the 2009 NBA Title if Kevin Garnett was 100% healthy?

Lakers, Kobe was on a mission..
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:25 AM   #4
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Default Re: Who wins the 2009 NBA Title if Kevin Garnett was 100% healthy?

Hmm, could see it going either way to be honest....but Doc and Rondo with 3 elite passing options is tough to bet against.

Will say this though, A healthy Andrew Bynum and the Lakers probably run away with all 3 peat.In both these series rebounding and interior scoring were just so so unbelievably important

Last edited by Rubio2Gasol : 08-04-2012 at 03:30 AM.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:28 AM   #5
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Default Re: Who wins the 2009 NBA Title if Kevin Garnett is 100% healthy (and fallout)?

Lakers still win the title. That whole entire team was on a mission that year.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:28 AM   #6
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Default Re: Who wins the 2009 NBA Title if Kevin Garnett is 100% healthy (and fallout)?

I still think the Lakers win.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:29 AM   #7
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Default Re: Who wins the 2009 NBA Title if Kevin Garnett is 100% healthy (and fallout)?

Still Lakers...a hypothetical that can have hypotheticals against it. Wasn't Shaq the guy that said he doesn't believe in "IFs". Fits this thread pretty well and all the other hypothetical threads in here lately.
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:29 AM   #8
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Default Re: Who wins the 2009 NBA Title if Kevin Garnett was 100% healthy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubio2Gasol
Hmm, could see it going either way to be honest....but Doc and Rondo with 3 elite passing options is tough to bet against.

Will say this though, A healthy Andrew Bynum and the Lakers probably run away with all 3 peat.

that's almost certainly true, but one of the makings of a successful thread of this sort is appeal for the entirety of the audience to which you're presenting your scenario

you have possibilities for Kobe fans (Lakers in the Finals, Kobe's legacy), LeBron fans (possibility 09 LeBron has better success against the Celtics than the Magic, maybe he never bolts), and fans of the league in general (potentially three straight Lakers-Celtics finals, possibility that Rondo is viewed as top PG, Dwight and Bynum might be moved already, etc.)

your proposal suggests one likely outcome, while this leaves the door open to a more lively debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by PickernRoller
Still Lakers...a hypothetical that can have hypotheticals against it. Wasn't Shaq the guy that said he doesn't believe in "IFs". Fits this thread pretty well and all the other hypothetical threads in here lately.

perhaps, but I just got banned from ESPN again for no reason (using an unrecognizable SN, with multiple proxies), so I'm looking to start a thread here that will solicit a variety of responses
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:34 AM   #9
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Default Re: Who wins the 2009 NBA Title if Kevin Garnett is 100% healthy (and fallout)?

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Originally Posted by L8k3r5
Lakers still win the title. That whole entire team was on a mission that year.
Even luke Walton?
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Old 08-04-2012, 03:35 AM   #10
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Default Re: Who wins the 2009 NBA Title if Kevin Garnett is 100% healthy (and fallout)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RRR3
Even luke Walton?

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Old 08-04-2012, 03:37 AM   #11
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Default Re: Who wins the 2009 NBA Title if Kevin Garnett was 100% healthy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
I'm not taking a side here, but I'd love to hear what all of you have to say.

Assuming the seeding is identical (pretty fair assumption IMO), here are the series that could possibly have been affected:

ECSF: Orlando Magic over Boston Celtics (4-3)
ECF: Orlando Magic over Cleveland Cavaliers (4-2)
NBA Finals: Los Angeles Lakers over Orlando Magic (4-1).

Here are a few questions to ponder when formulating your posts:

(1) Would the results be the same for those three series?

(2) How would the legacies of players involved in those series (Garnett, Rondo, Pierce, Allen, Kobe, Gasol, LeBron) and/or the coaches (Phil, Doc, Mike Brown, SvG) have changed?

(3) What would the results have been down the line (Dwight doesn't opt back in, Bynum is traded, LeBron stays in Cleveland, Big Three break up earlier or later)?

What do you think?

Not really. The Celtics went 62-20 even though Garnett played in only 57 games. I'd say it's a pretty fair assumption that they could have easily gotten the first seed and overall home court throughout the playoffs if Garnett never goes down. Regardless, if Kevin Garnett was healthy the Celtics would have repeated. The 2009 Celtics were BETTER than the 2008 Celtics. Ray Allen for one was much better in 09 than he was in 08 because he wasn't coming off those two ankle surgeries like he was in the 08 season. It was even recommended that he take some time off at the beginning of the season, but he said no thanks. His lift throughout the season was never really right.

Rondo was much better in the 09 season and Perkins was getting better too. Pierce was Pierce and Garnett was Garnett. The bench was just fine and did their job. They obviously beat the Magic with KG as they took them to 7 games without him that season. The 2009 Celtics were just plain better than the previous years team with their younger starters like Rondo and Perkins developing and contributing more and Ray Allen fully healthy. I just don't see the Cavs or the Lakers being able to beat the Celtics if Garnett never gets injured and is 100%.
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:07 AM   #12
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Default Re: Who wins the 2009 NBA Title if Kevin Garnett was 100% healthy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoke117
Not really. The Celtics went 62-20 even though Garnett played in only 57 games. I'd say it's a pretty fair assumption that they could have easily gotten the first seed and overall home court throughout the playoffs if Garnett never goes down. Regardless, if Kevin Garnett was healthy the Celtics would have repeated. The 2009 Celtics were BETTER than the 2008 Celtics. Ray Allen for one was much better in 09 than he was in 08 because he wasn't coming off those two ankle surgeries like he was in the 08 season. It was even recommended that he take some time off at the beginning of the season, but he said no thanks. His lift throughout the season was never really right.

Rondo was much better in the 09 season and Perkins was getting better too. Pierce was Pierce and Garnett was Garnett. The bench was just fine and did their job. They obviously beat the Magic with KG as they took them to 7 games without him that season. The 2009 Celtics were just plain better than the previous years team with their younger starters like Rondo and Perkins developing and contributing more and Ray Allen fully healthy. I just don't see the Cavs or the Lakers being able to beat the Celtics if Garnett never gets injured and is 100%.

They went 62-20. Here are their losses:

11/1/08 79-95 @IND
11/14/08 94-85 DEN
12/25/08 83-92 @LAL
12/26/08 89-99 @GSW
12/30/08 86-91 @POR
1/4/09 88-100 @NYK
1/6/09 106-114 @CHA
1/7/09 89-85 HOU
1/9/09 83-98 @CLE
2/5/09 110-109 LAL
2/8/09 105-99 SAS
2/19/09 85-90 @UTA
2/24/09 91-93 @LAC
3/1/09 105-95 DET
3/8/09 86-79 ORL
3/11/09 99-107 @MIA
3/15/09 77-86 @MIL
3/17/09 121-127 @CHI
3/25/09 82-84 @ORL (KG played, but was limited)
4/12/09 76-107 @CLE

So KG missed all or part of 8 games in which Boston lost. Cleveland won 66 games, 4 more than Boston. Unless they won on 4/12—knocking Cleveland down to 65-17 (in which case they'd only need three more wins)—if they made up those four games, there'd be a season split, so they'd go to the next tiebreaker, higher winning percentage in conference games (which Boston had already, at 41-11 to the Cavs' 40-12).

So my question for you is, which four of those eight games (or three if they beat Cleveland, which is improbable considering it was a blowout) would they win? Six were on the road, and six were against playoff teams, so it wasn't an easy slate.

Last edited by fpliii : 08-04-2012 at 04:11 AM.
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:14 AM   #13
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Default Re: Who wins the 2009 NBA Title if Kevin Garnett is 100% healthy (and fallout)?

Celtics.

Pretty obvious .....

We all saw what kg did in the playoffs this year.
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:23 AM   #14
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Default Re: Who wins the 2009 NBA Title if Kevin Garnett is 100% healthy (and fallout)?

Cavs matched up well Boston that year imo. Orlando was built to beat that Cleveland team. 3pt shooting, dominant low-post player, and big wing players that could take advantage of Cleveland's smaller backcourt. Boston probably still wins though because I still see the Cavs' supporting cast choking. They had a poor record against the elite teams that season. The 2010 Cavs problem was trying to put so many weak defenders in the starting lineup. Jamison and Mo Williams were two of the worst defenders in the NBA. And Shaq had been awful for years at guarding the pick n roll.
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:27 AM   #15
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Default Re: Who wins the 2009 NBA Title if Kevin Garnett is 100% healthy (and fallout)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilkkTheShocker
Cavs matched up well Boston that year imo. Orlando was built to beat that Cleveland team. 3pt shooting, dominant low-post player, and big wing players that could take advantage of Cleveland's smaller backcourt. Boston probably still wins though because I still see the Cavs' supporting cast choking. They had a poor record against the elite teams that season. The 2010 Cavs problem was trying to put so many weak defenders in the starting lineup. Jamison and Mo Williams were two of the worst defenders in the NBA. And Shaq had been awful for years at guarding the pick n roll.

perhaps, but 38.5/8.3/8.0/1.2/1.2 on 59.1 TS% against the number 1 defense in the league that season (with losses in g1 and g4 of one and two points respectively) speaks differently
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