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Old 08-07-2012, 06:10 PM   #16
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Default Re: Shaq vs. Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harison
Bird is ranked 5-6th on All-time list for majority of fans, Shaq - 7-8th.

I personally would build around Bird: (nearly) GOAT offense, super clutch, excellent rebounding for his position, very loyal, have an argument for GOAT BBIQ.

Shaq has one advantage over Bird - very efficient volume scoring, but the only reason I would even consider him over Bird if I already had an elite SF/PF.

Still I couldnt rely on Shaq in the end of the game, or not to feud with teammates. Three years or so of dominant center is definitely great (till he bolts or is traded), but with Bird I get dominant player for much longer (at least, till injury).
All the loyalty stuff is so circumstantial..
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:18 PM   #17
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Default Re: Shaq vs. Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz
Kobe is a top 10 ranked player by 99% of posters. Bird played with no other top 10, top 20, or top 30 guys.

Yes, Kobe > anybody else Bird played with, but Bird had much better depth on the front court and on the bench.

Bird's team was more loaded and more dangerous.


Quote:
The big man, little man, nice role player method is excellent. Those Laker teams had some talent. Robert Horry was a vey good player, he just ended up being a spot up shooter.

Similar to Bird, he had Ainge and DJ.

Quote:
The most stacked team Shaq played on, was the 97-98 Lakers including: Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Kobe Bryant, Elden Campbell, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Jon Barry. How did that team turnout?

Talent isn't everything.

They were a young team with inexperienced coaching and inexperience in the playoffs. Some of those all-star selections were considered suspect as well.

Bird's teams also lost to teams they shouldn't have in the playoffs and lost with home advantage a lot, as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odinn
Against weaker competition.

2 of 3 Bird's titles come against the 81 and 86 Rockets, neither of which are considered all-time great teams either, especially the 81 Rockets.

Plus, the Western Conference back in the West was loaded with talent and potential teams that almost knocked the Lakers out in 2000-02.

Last edited by Legends66NBA7 : 08-07-2012 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:21 PM   #18
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Default Re: Shaq vs. Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rnbizzle
All the loyalty stuff is so circumstantial..

Bird isn't going to cause fits for his team, like Shaq did for the majority of teams he played for in his prime.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:26 PM   #19
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Default Re: Shaq vs. Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
2 of 3 Bird's titles come against the 81 and 86 Rockets, neither of which are considered all-time great teams either, especially the 81 Rockets.

Plus, the Western Conference back in the West was loaded with talent and potential teams that almost knocked the Lakers out in 2000-02.
The only teams which had a chance to beat the Lakers were 2000 Blazers and 2002 Kings. Bird faced a tougher competition without a doubt.
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Old 08-07-2012, 06:45 PM   #20
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Default Re: Shaq vs. Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Odinn
The only teams which had a chance to beat the Lakers were 2000 Blazers and 2002 Kings. Bird faced a tougher competition without a doubt.

I'd say the Spurs also had a good chance too.

No question Bird did face more tougher competition, but a 3 peat is a 3 peat.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:26 PM   #21
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Default Re: Shaq vs. Bird

I would honestly take Bird ahead of almost all of the all time greats. I'd have to think about MJ depending on the rest of my roster.

Bird was insanely skilled, clutch, had hunger, could do anything, and he was unselfish. Perfect guy to build around. Perfect guy to be your alpha dog.

I have him at #5 all time, and Shaq at #8.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:27 PM   #22
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Default Re: Shaq vs. Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
2 of 3 Bird's titles come against the 81 and 86 Rockets, neither of which are considered all-time great teams either, especially the 81 Rockets.

In 1981 they had to get through the 76ers who were a very good team that year. The 86 Celtics were going to beat anyone that year, but that Rocket team was quite good and with a healthy Ralph Sampson playing along Olajuwon, they created some nightmare matchups. If Sampson didn't get hurt the history of the late 80's NBA might be quite different. Think about going at team that has a top of all-time center AND a 7' 4" guy who was not stiff either.

This was a Rockets team that beat the defending champion Lakers in 5 games, winning 4 straight to close out the series.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...4854/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...4885/index.htm
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:36 PM   #23
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Default Re: Shaq vs. Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raz
Kobe is a top 10 ranked player by 99% of posters. Bird played with no other top 10, top 20, or top 30 guys.

The big man, little man, nice role player method is excellent. Those Laker teams had some talent. Robert Horry was a vey good player, he just ended up being a spot up shooter.

The most stacked team Shaq played on, was the 97-98 Lakers including: Eddie Jones, Nick Van Exel, Kobe Bryant, Elden Campbell, Robert Horry, Derek Fisher, Rick Fox, Jon Barry. How did that team turnout?

Talent isn't everything.


Aside from Kobe, does anyone else on the Lakers(not counting the cameos by Malone and Payton in 2004) come in the top 100? 200? Maybe Horry, but those Laker teams were essentially Shaq, Kobe and a bunch of role players.

Bird ran with prime McHale, HOF'er Parish, HOF'er DJ, and washed up but still effective Walton. Lets not act like he played with scrubs.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:47 PM   #24
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Default Re: Shaq vs. Bird

Post-season Shaq was a FAR greater player.

And a PEAK regular season Shaq was much more dominant.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:47 PM   #25
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Default Re: Shaq vs. Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinNYC
In 1981 they had to get through the 76ers who were a very good team that year. The 86 Celtics were going to beat anyone that year, but that Rocket team was quite good and with a healthy Ralph Sampson playing along Olajuwon, they created some nightmare matchups. If Sampson didn't get hurt the history of the late 80's NBA might be quite different. Think about going at team that has a top of all-time center AND a 7' 4" guy who was not stiff either.

This was a Rockets team that beat the defending champion Lakers in 5 games, winning 4 straight to close out the series.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...4854/index.htm
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...4885/index.htm

Amazing how much more credit Bird and the Celtics would've gotten had they beaten the Lakers in 1986 rather than the team who took care of them in five games, right? Beat not only the defending champs but the club that would win the next two titles in 1987-1988. Had they not be thrashed, Bird and Magic would be 2-2.

Last edited by Hands of Iron : 08-07-2012 at 07:54 PM.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:49 PM   #26
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Default Re: Shaq vs. Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
1. Who do you guys have ranked higher on your all-time list, i.e. better career?


Bird by a few spots.



Quote:
2. Who would you rather build around?


Shaq. Always build around the big man, especially when it's Shaq.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:52 PM   #27
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Default Re: Shaq vs. Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands of Iron
Amazing how much more credit Bird and the Celtics would've gotten had they beaten the Lakers in 1986 rather than the team who took care of them in five games, right? Beat not inly the defending champs but the club that would win the next two titles in 1987-1988. Had they not be thrashed, Bird and Magic would be 2-2.

Actually, the '84 Lakers were one bad pass, and one missed FT away from SWEEPING Boston. Even Larry Bird admitted that they should have.

And, had Magic been completely healthy for the '81 post-season, and LA gets #2 of what would have been a 3-peat. The '80 and '82 Lakers easily handled Philly in the Finals (and even won a clinching game six on the road without Kareem in '80), while the '81 Celtics had to come back from a 3-1 series deficit against the Sixers, and in those three straight wins, they won by the narrowest of margins.

And if you are going to credit Bird with a "hypothetical" ring over Magic in '86, then I will give Magic a hypothetical ring over Bird in '88 (and any year after that, had Boston even been able to get to the Finals in '89, 90, and '91.

So even IF I were to give you '86, Magic SHOULD have beaten him in 81 and '84, dominated him in '85 and '87, and WOULD have pasted him in '88, '89, 90, and '91.

Or basically, Magic with a 9-1 edge over Bird.

Last edited by jlauber : 08-07-2012 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:55 PM   #28
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Default Re: Shaq vs. Bird

Who was better....

'86 - '87 Bird or '00 - '01 Shaq?


VERY close in my opinion. Could go either way.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:59 PM   #29
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Default Re: Shaq vs. Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
Bird isn't going to cause fits for his team, like Shaq did for the majority of teams he played for in his prime.
Bird was a jerk and he and McHale despised each other.
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Old 08-07-2012, 07:59 PM   #30
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Default Re: Shaq vs. Bird

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dasher
Bird was a jerk and he and McHale despised each other.


Shaq and Kobe despised each other as well, but they won 3 titles in a row.
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