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Old 08-07-2012, 10:47 PM   #16
bleedinpurpleTwo
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Default Re: NBA hall of fame players who would have a title(s) if it wasn't for Jordan

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueandGold
Stockton
Malone
Barkley
Reggie Miller
Ewing


other players who have a title but would have one as the lead dog without Jordan

Payton
Drexler

Also the Cavs
Wow, Jordan did that all by his little ol self?
He was so good he played one on five.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:53 PM   #17
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Default Re: NBA hall of fame players who would have a title(s) if it wasn't for Jordan

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
If you honestly believe that YOU dont know anything.

Take that man in your avatar for example, Allen Iverson, can you tell me who had a bigger heart? Why didnt he win anything?

Take Reggie Miller as an example aswell.... that guy invented the basketball term "stepping up" & "heart"...

What happened?

What happened to prime T-Mac? Lack of heart and "will to win" aswell? Get the hell outta here with that... fact is, this is a TEAM GAME, no matter how good you are (or believe how good you are or how good your will or heart is) you will NEVER win a championship if you dont have the REQUIRED supporting cast to beat everybody and that specific team you will meet in the Finals....

I never said this wasn't a team game, I've even stressed that point on many of my posts. You're right that you need a good supporting cast to win a championship. A GREAT supporting cast. But there have been many skilled players over the years that have had the pieces around them and have failed to win it all. I attribute this to lack of heart and will to win. That's all i'm saying.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:55 PM   #18
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Default Re: NBA hall of fame players who would have a title(s) if it wasn't for Jordan

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueandGold
Jordan made Pippen into an all-star, Pippen couldn't even win a FMVP or MVP the entire time he was in Chicago even when Jordan was aging and he was entering his prime.

Anyways how many other players have just straight up denied top25 hall of famers from winning championships?

What were Jordan team records without Pippen again? I DARE you to post them
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: NBA hall of fame players who would have a title(s) if it wasn't for Jordan

Quote:
Originally Posted by TMacMagic
I never said this wasn't a team game, I've even stressed that point on many of my posts. You're right that you need a good supporting cast to win a championship. A GREAT supporting cast. But there have been many skilled players over the years that have had the pieces around them and have failed to win it all. I attribute this to lack of heart and will to win. That's all i'm saying.

Yes, there may have been skilled players over the years who had the pieces to win it all.... but those players were not beaten because of lack of heart or will to win... but because that other opposing team had also skilled players with correct pieces to win it all, who as a TEAM probably also had bigger heart & will to win...

Even then its the exact same thing... An individuals HUGE heart & will to win fails in comparasant to a team who has multiple individuals with the same heart & will to win (not to mention a better TEAM).... its a TEAM GAME... in heart, in will to win, in talent, in skill... everything... however you want to twist and turn it... its a TEAM GAME... in every single facit of vocabulary...

I dont care if you are sent down from God himself a 7 foot 50 point quadruple double point guard clutch god with 3 human hearts and unmatched WILL... you will never win a championship if you dont have the required supporting cast to beat everybody and that best team you will face in the finals...

Nobody has ever won a championship alone... not as alone as Jordan, Lebron, Garnett and so on were at some point in their careers...

Take Jordan for example who you praise so much in the will & heart department, he didnt win a championship until he was 28.... its not the increase in will or heart that did this (he always had that anyways) nor increase in his talent/skill... but increase in supporting cast...

Last edited by pauk : 08-07-2012 at 11:12 PM.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:17 PM   #20
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Default Re: NBA hall of fame players who would have a title(s) if it wasn't for Jordan

Utah probably would of had 2, seattle, knicks and suns 1 dont think indy get 1
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:23 PM   #21
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Default Re: NBA hall of fame players who would have a title(s) if it wasn't for Jordan

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
Yes, there may have been skilled players over the years who had the pieces to win it all.... but those players were not beaten because of lack of heart or will to win... but because that other opposing team had also skilled players with correct pieces to win it all, who as a TEAM probably also had bigger heart & will to win...

Even then its the exact same thing... An individuals HUGE heart & will to win fails in comparasant to a team who has multiple individuals with the same heart & will to win (not to mention a better TEAM).... its a TEAM GAME... in heart, in will to win, in talent, in skill... everything... however you want to twist and turn it... its a TEAM GAME... in every single facit of vocabulary...

I dont care if you are sent down from God himself a 7 foot 50 point quadruple double point guard clutch god with 3 human hearts and unmatched WILL... you will never win a championship if you dont have the required supporting cast to beat everybody and that best team you will face in the finals...

Nobody has ever won a championship alone... not as alone as Jordan, Lebron, Garnett and so on were at some point in their careers...

Take Jordan for example who you praise so much in the will & heart department, he didnt win a championship until he was 28.... its not the increase in will or heart that did this (he always had that anyways) nor increase in his talent/skill... but increase in supporting cast...

Repped.
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:27 PM   #22
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Default Re: NBA hall of fame players who would have a title(s) if it wasn't for Jordan

winners if Jordan doesn't exist:

91 - Lakers or Pistons
92 - Blazers
93 - Suns or Knicks
96 - Sonics or Magic
97 - Jazz or Heat
98 - Jazz

I can say with 100% confidence Reggie would NOT win a ring

one of Magic/Isiah wins another as does Drexler, Barkley probably wins in 93, I think the 96 Sonics take it but there's an outside shot Penny/Shaq win; I think Malone/Stockton grab two, but the 97 Mourning/Tim Hardaway Heat could've made a run
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:53 PM   #23
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Default Re: NBA hall of fame players who would have a title(s) if it wasn't for Jordan

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawke812
What were Jordan team records without Pippen again? I DARE you to post them

Pippen has never played outside of a solid cast. Began his career with MJ, then onto join Olajuwan and Barkley in Houston with formidable teammates despite their age and then of course with Portland where Pippen was surrounded with talent his entire 4 seasons with them not to mention Portland made the WCF the season before Pippen even arrived. Pippen was surrounded with talent his entire career with the exception of his final season. MJ began his career on a lottery team.

Anything else?
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:01 AM   #24
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Default Re: NBA hall of fame players who would have a title(s) if it wasn't for Jordan

Quote:
Originally Posted by CAstill
That was Kemp's team. Kemp would of won the FMVP too.
I do believe Payton deserved a lot of credit as he was the other
main contributor.


Payton was clearly the leader of that team in scoring and assists, as well as being the defense anchor and DPOY and also having much more all-NBA 1st defensive teams than Kemp. This is all not even mentioning Payton is a top10 all time PG..
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:12 AM   #25
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Default Re: NBA hall of fame players who would have a title(s) if it wasn't for Jordan

1991 - Maybe Divac gets a ring. Maybe Isiah Thomas gets a third. I think Lakers win that though
1992 - Drexler now has two rings.
1993 - Barkley grabs a ring
1996 - Maybe Penny now has a ring. Maybe Kemp. I'm not sure.
1997 - Stockton and Malone now has a ring
1998 - Reggie Miller now has a ring

Regarding all the anti-Miller comments, he did have some flaws in his game, but he took those Bulls in 98 to seven games. That, and I'd figure Malone would choke his way out of a championship
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:14 AM   #26
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Default Re: NBA hall of fame players who would have a title(s) if it wasn't for Jordan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom Kid7
1991 - Maybe Divac gets a ring. Maybe Isiah Thomas gets a third. I think Lakers win that though
1992 - Drexler now has two rings.
1993 - Barkley grabs a ring
1996 - Maybe Penny now has a ring. Maybe Kemp. I'm not sure.
1997 - Stockton and Malone now has a ring
1998 - Reggie Miller now has a ring

Regarding all the anti-Miller comments, he did have some flaws in his game, but he took those Bulls in 98 to seven games. That, and I'd figure Malone would choke his way out of a championship

the playoffs are all about matchups though...the Jazz would've created problems for the Pacers (look at the h2h's around that time)
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Old 08-08-2012, 12:23 AM   #27
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Default Re: NBA hall of fame players who would have a title(s) if it wasn't for Jordan

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
the playoffs are all about matchups though...the Jazz would've created problems for the Pacers (look at the h2h's around that time)
Good point. Malone would probably steamroll over whatever big Indiana has to offer. One of the games they did play against though, was 106 - 102, jazz favor. Close game. So it might end up being a close series. And with a close series, I doubt Malone. However, we may never know.
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:39 AM   #28
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Default Re: NBA hall of fame players who would have a title(s) if it wasn't for Jordan

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom Kid7
1991 - Maybe Divac gets a ring. Maybe Isiah Thomas gets a third. I think Lakers win that though
1992 - Drexler now has two rings.
1993 - Barkley grabs a ring
1996 - Maybe Penny now has a ring. Maybe Kemp. I'm not sure.
1997 - Stockton and Malone now has a ring
1998 - Reggie Miller now has a ring

Regarding all the anti-Miller comments, he did have some flaws in his game, but he took those Bulls in 98 to seven games. That, and I'd figure Malone would choke his way out of a championship
Yep sounds about right, except I doubt Penny gets a ring.. that team was too flawed, if anything Ewing gets a ring that year.
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:50 AM   #29
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Default Re: NBA hall of fame players who would have a title(s) if it wasn't for Jordan

You mean if it wasn't for Jordan, Pippen, Phill and the Bulls..
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Old 08-08-2012, 01:54 AM   #30
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Default Re: NBA hall of fame players who would have a title(s) if it wasn't for Jordan

97 Heat had a sick squad. Plus that was the healthiest Hardaway had been in Miami, I believe. Knicks win in 92, easily. Suns probably win in 93 but Ewing would have shit on their frontcourt. I don't see pacers winning one in any year but possibly 98. 04 was probably Reggie's best chance IMO
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