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Old 06-25-2006, 10:28 AM   #31
adamcz
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What they're doing hasn't been that successful. They've never won the title, and haven't been further than the first round in the past six years. A pretty average franchise - not terrible and not great.

Don't waste our time with your "why isn't the league 75% white like the rest of america is" line though. You won't fool anybody.
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Old 06-25-2006, 10:36 AM   #32
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The reason Karl stayed so long was because he enjoyed the lifestyle there. Utah isnt a bad place (from what i heard) but its for people who love and enjoy the outdoors. A guy like Allen Iverson likes to hit up a club, strip club, his fav eating spots, lounges or just hang out. He's not gonna take his moutain bike and work up a sweat on a cool trail. Not gonna sit out on a lake for 4hrs fishing. Ehhhh

If Deshawn Stevenson were to have become a Tmac. Who knows how much that could have attracted players? Or he probably would have done like Tmac and bounced.

Only way i see the roster changing is if they draft and hit big. Deron Williams is there. You draft another black player this draft. They pan out ehhh.
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Old 06-25-2006, 10:57 AM   #33
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The nightlife isn't just bad in Utah like many assume - there actually aren't any bars at all. Instead there are private clubs that you need to have a member sponsor you to gain access to, and they aren't allowed to sell real beer. Some of the major beer producers make a special version for Utah with lower alchohol content. So umm... ???

So yes - you guys could be right that free agents simply don't want to go there. But out of curiosity, does anybody have any stories of free agents that Utah made big offers to, but was turned down by? 99% of the time, free agents just accept the biggest offer, and there are almost never exceptions to this. I don't remember Utah being a victim of player disinterest, but I would love to be shown otherwise.
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Old 06-25-2006, 11:15 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcz
The nightlife isn't just bad in Utah like many assume - there actually aren't any bars at all. Instead there are private clubs that you need to have a member sponsor you to gain access to, and they aren't allowed to sell real beer. Some of the major beer producers make a special version for Utah with lower alchohol content. So umm... ???

So yes - you guys could be right that free agents simply don't want to go there. But out of curiosity, does anybody have any stories of free agents that Utah made big offers to, but was turned down by? 99% of the time, free agents just accept the biggest offer, and there are almost never exceptions to this. I don't remember Utah being a victim of player disinterest, but I would love to be shown otherwise.


Why offer if the player and agent make it known where they arent going...regardless of the money? I dont think Utah has ever been in a position where they offered the most money or more then any other team. There has always been other teams who could counter. So a situation where Utah offers for fun Tmac the most money has never existed.

What has existed is players publicly expressing there is no way they go to Utah and play regardless of the money.
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Old 06-25-2006, 11:26 AM   #35
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Since when does being white effect how you play basketball? They have plenty of excellent players in Utah, and they don't need to be black to win
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Old 06-25-2006, 11:40 AM   #36
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Since the 60's, maybe before. Are you that new to following the NBA? In the past 20 years, only two white-Americans have been in the top 20 scoring leaders. Just Van Horn and Googs.
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Old 06-25-2006, 11:52 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcz
Since the 60's, maybe before. Are you that new to following the NBA? In the past 20 years, only two white-Americans have been in the top 20 scoring leaders. Just Van Horn and Googs.

What are you smoking???????? What NBA are you talking about???????????? What about Dirk Nowitzki, Steve Nash, Bill Walton, Larry Bird, Andrei Kirelinko, Manu Ginobli, Jason Kidd, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Mike Bibby, Peja Stoyackovic (wrong spelling), Brad Miller, the list goes on and on and on. The point is You know nothing about the NBA, your racist, white people can play basketball just as well as any other race
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Old 06-25-2006, 12:02 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KnicksFan4Life
What are you smoking???????? What NBA are you talking about???????????? What about Dirk Nowitzki, Steve Nash, Bill Walton, Larry Bird, Andrei Kirelinko, Manu Ginobli, Jason Kidd, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, Mike Bibby, Peja Stoyackovic (wrong spelling), Brad Miller, the list goes on and on and on. The point is You know nothing about the NBA, your racist, white people can play basketball just as well as any other race
Did I just get "pwned"????? Or is your reading comprehension just really low. Let's find out!

Nowitzki, Nash, Kirilenko, Ginobili, Ilgauskas, Stojakovic = not American
Bill Walton = last season of 14+ points a game was 1978
Kidd, Biiby = only half white, and are not high scorers anyway
Larry Bird = You got me on that one - I guess I should have said 15 years and not 20
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Old 06-25-2006, 12:04 PM   #39
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hay homie your statistics are off because you based the averages out of a roster of 12, and some of the guys you listed were only on the Jazz for parts of the year, meaining ther team used far more than 12 guys over the course of the season. next time id appreciate it if you'd make you data more accurate before making a big thing out of it.
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Old 06-25-2006, 12:05 PM   #40
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Which players didn't belong? I thought I made sure to check that they played more than half of their games for the Jazz in a given year before listing them.
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Old 06-25-2006, 12:08 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcz
According to http://www.villagevoice.com/news/000...o,12566,3.html white people make up 21% of the NBA, which is an average of 2.5 white people per team. Before I go any further, let's take a look at the Utah Jazz rosters over the past 10 years.

2005: Okur+Kirilenko+Harpring+Giricek+Ostertag+Humphries = 6
2004: Harpring+Giricek+Kirilenko+Borchardt+Humphries+Lop ez+Handlogten = 7
2003: Kirilenko+Lopez+Ostertag+Harpring+Pavlovic+Giricek +Gugliotta+Handlogten = 8
2002: Harpring+Kirilenko+Stockton+Padgett+Ostertag = 5
2001: Stockton+Kirilenko+Padgett+Crotty+Ostertag+LaRue = 6
2000: Stockton+Ostertag+Crotty+Padgett = 4
1999: Stockton+Hornacek+Ostertag+Keefe+Padgett+Chilcutt = 6
1998: Hornacek+Stockton+Ostertag+Keefe+Fuller+Foster = 6
1997: Hornacek+Stockton+Keefe+Foster+Ostertag = 5

Over the past 10 years, the Jazz only once had a roster that didn't contain double the league's average of white people. At what point are we allowed to point fingers and say that this is intentional? After all, Salt Lake City is 93% white, and more than 70% of those whites are Mormon - a religion that has historically believed that black people did not choose sides between Jesus and Satan in the beginning of time (in 1978, the Mormon church decided to allow blacks to join, but they have never officially rescinded the claim that they are cursed).

Do you think there will ever come a time when Utah's roster will include a demographic makeup that is more in line with the league average? In a situation as unique as a basketball roster, how big a sample size is needed before it's no longer a coincidence? Is my 10 years enough, or must we go back further?

Great Thread awesome topic, but Humphries is not white, is he?
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Old 06-25-2006, 12:11 PM   #42
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Quote:
white people make up 21% of the NBA, which is an average of 2.5 white people per team

its ratios and proportions bruh. 2.5 is 21 percent of what? a twelve-man roster. if u include all the dudes you did, like rusty la rue, they make up more than just a 12-man roster because the years they played they were one of maybe 20 players used by the team over the course of the season. this makes your stasts too high and inaccurate.
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Old 06-25-2006, 12:18 PM   #43
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If I cross out LaRue since he only played 33 games for the Jazz that year, and change the results to 5 (still 2x the league average) will that make you happy? I don't see how it really changes anything. Either way the team has 2x the average.
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Old 06-25-2006, 12:25 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adamcz
Did I just get "pwned"????? Or is your reading comprehension just really low. Let's find out!

Nowitzki, Nash, Kirilenko, Ginobili, Ilgauskas, Stojakovic = not American
Bill Walton = last season of 14+ points a game was 1978
Kidd, Biiby = only half white, and are not high scorers anyway
Larry Bird = You got me on that one - I guess I should have said 15 years and not 20

Bibby is not half white, his dad is a black albino or has the same disease as Mike Jackson.
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Old 06-25-2006, 12:32 PM   #45
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So what is he? All black? Either way, he doesn't count as a white guy.
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