Unlike Duncan, who had to go thru the three-time defending champion Lakers and Shaq, Hakeem got a reprieve when Jordan sat out the season. The result? Hakeem's 58-24 Rockets beat a 56-26 Knicks team with even less talent, in a close game seven. The same Knicks team that barely won a game seven against the Jordan-less Bulls earlier in the playoffs.
Unlike Duncan, who had to go thru the three-time defending champion Lakers and Shaq, Hakeem got a reprieve when Jordan sat out the season. The result? Hakeem's 58-24 Rockets beat a 56-26 Knicks team with even less talent, in a close game seven. The same Knicks team that barely won a game seven against the Jordan-less Bulls earlier in the playoffs.
It's a 2 year comparison. I'm including Timmy's '02 season and hakeem's '93 season, too.
This thread will probably be a non-starter anyhow. It's not exactly an original topic. I'm currently compling a list of the best 2 year stretches of all time.
There's an awful lot left out by taking '93-'94 rather than '94-'95 regardless of the better regular-season he had in 1993.
I think Hakemm was essentially the same player in 92/93 as he was in 93/94, and I would take 93/94 over 94/95 because his defense was substantially better.
I think Hakemm was essentially the same player in 92/93 as he was in 93/94, and I would take 93/94 over 94/95 because his defense was substantially better.
I love Hakeem. By far my favorite player... but I have to take 03 Duncan. I think Duncan had a little superior competition (that 03 Lakers team was good and had Horry made that shot in game 5, things might have gone completely different), and Duncan played incredibly well in the finals. There defense was excellent, Duncan had the rebounding edge but Hakeem had the scoring edge. I think Duncan's game 6 performance seals the deal.
As flpiii said, both were incredibly elite at that time and I am not at all knocking Hakeem
I will take Hakeem pretty comfortably. He's a better player on both ends of the floor.
On the subject of rebounding, Duncan doesn't have the rebounding edge to me. I know he has the cumulative edge in TRB% as well as rpg but stats aren't everything.
Hakeem often operated on the perimeter more than Duncan did. He'd often switch on PnRs, pressure the guards up high often trying to force a steal as he had great hands, would challenge more shots and leave his feet more often. That'll naturally leave you out of position to get boards. That's defensively.
Offensively, when you take more shots as Hakeem did, you'll have a less of an opportunity to get the offensive boards so taking more shots unless you're getting a lot of follow up shots or putbacks (which Hakeem wasn't due to the way Houston was built), it will impact your orpg numbers negatively. Of course, the fact that Hakeem was able to simultaneously post a career high in TRB% and BLK% in 1990 can be used as a counter-argument but that's what makes his defensive season that year so special although I would say he gambled more back then and wasn't as smart as he was in 1993 or 1994.
Also, I'm not saying Duncan preferred to totally camp in the paint but he didn't have that range, mobility and athleticism although I do think his athleticism is underrated because he's not a stiff that younger fans make him out to be. But his speed, quickness, leaping ability, reflexes and hand eye co-ordination weren't at Hakeem's level. I will say that Duncan not leaving his feet is an edge in theory but at the same time Hakeem's ability to contest shots and recover due to superior athleticism negates that edge. One edge Duncan does have which is substantial since it can dictate how aggressively you can play defense is he's less probable to get in foul trouble but I tend to side with Hakeem as the superior defender because of his athleticism.
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Originally Posted by Hands of Iron
There's an awful lot left out by taking '93-'94 rather than '94-'95 regardless of the better regular-season he had in 1993.
I think Hakeem was better in 1993 than 1995. I agree with oolalaa.
He might've been a little better offensively because of that playoff run but at the same time he has circumstantial advantages in 1995 that effect his offensive performance that don't exist in either 1993 or 1994. For one, the Rockets benefited from the shortened 3 pt line and the addition of Drexler brought another dimension to their offense, relieving some pressure off of him and Hakeem does benefit from Drexler’s presence as he’d often space the floor with Drexler either posting up or isolating which is naturally going to help him as he got better looks and Drexler really improved their fastbreak play as well which Hakeem benefited from as the trailer.
In 1993, it was actually his most efficient season and he was still offensive rebounding at a high level at this point, more so than the next two years. 1993’s also his best defensive season out of the 3 and his overall activity level was better most likely due to more athleticism + stamina.
His 1995 playoff run was the best out of the 3 but I will also say that the 1995 playoff run can be attributed to circumstances too. For example, his tremendous series vs Utah coincides with Utah losing Felton Spencer, who was the best defensive C they had, for the season. Carr and Chambers were overmatched and Donaldson was a bit too old and severely lacked quickness in comparison. He didn't play as well in 1994 vs Utah as he did in 1995 and they had Spencer for that series and their strategy was similar.
His 1995 series vs PHX isn't that great for his standards (1994 was better) although he was incredibly clutch there. Big game and a huge shot to send the game to OT saving their season on the road in game 5 with Drexler virtually a decoy because of the flu, big game in game 6 and had the huge 16 pt 4th quarter on the road in game 7. I could easily see 1993 Hakeem duplicating this performance though. San Antonio series is excellent and what makes the 1995 playoff run so special but they played him straight up with Robinson quite a bit. Orlando series vs great but not a series that's other worldly or something you can't see his 1993 or 1994 self duplicate.
Compare that with 1993, Clippers were a good defensive team and Seattle was tremendous and they both gave him a lot of defensive attention. The guard play was often questionable more so due to the lack of Vernon Maxwell vs Clippers who had a wrist injury, no quality back ups (no Sam Cassell here)and the guard play is very important because they have to entry pass and get the ball into Hakeem in his sweet spots. The Clipps were actually pretty damn good defensively with Larry Brown and they threw Stanley Roberts on him who was a really big dude and a solid defender mainly due to his size and strength. Danny Manning gave him some different looks as well and they were throwing help defenders at him all series long. Seattle pressure defense also made it harder to get the ball into Hakeem as they often fronted him and pressured the ball handler and of course sent multiple traps. He didn't face as unique and vaunted of a defensive team in the 1995 playoffs. Throughout the playoffs, he was forced to really work for his points + he was banged up with a rib injury vs Seattle and keep in mind, there's no Drexler to relieve pressure off of him.
I don’t really see him doing any worse if you replace 1994 and 1995 Hakeem with the 1993 version heading into the playoffs and if anything, I think he’d do better because he was better then. Only series I think he might not be able to duplicate is the 1995 domination of Robinson but I'll even take my chances on that. He had some really big games against him in 1993 and I think he could've had a big series especially being played 1 on 1 and using the MVP award as motivation.
Hakeem has the clear scoring edge. Duncan has the clear rebounding edge. Their defense is VERY close.
Your right about Duncan having the rebounding edge. Just checked the rebounding% and Duncan averaged 2% more over the two season span. Though I do believe that Hakeem's offensive advantage outweighs Duncan's rebounding advantage even still.
As great as Duncan was defensively in that stretch, I have a really hard time saying their defense was VERY close. Hakeem's defense in that two year stretch has really only been matched/surpassed by Bill Russell and perhaps a prime defensive Chamberlain.
Over the course of those two seasons, Hakeem racked up 639 blocks, 278 steals, 16 DWS(somewhat meaningful with an aggregated 2 season sample size), and earned 2 Defensive Player of the Year awards. For comparison, Duncan came up with 422 blocks, 117 steals, 14 DWS, and 0 Defensive Player of the Years. I have a hard time really saying any player was clearly better than an 02-03 Duncan defensively, but Hakeem (along with Russell, defensive Wilt, and Thurmond) is one of the few players with which I'm fairly comfortable in making that claim.
Both players did a great job of leading some of the least talented rosters(of those who won it all) to an NBA championship, but overall I'd say that Hakeem did it with a bit less help.
What were the stats for the two during those years? I'm willing to bet Hakeem's was better without loooking it up. Hakeem's 2nd best player during that run was like either Vernon Maxwell or Sam Cassell, what he did was truly remarkable, which is why I still have him over Shaq. Sure Shaq had a dominant three-peat but he still had dominant wing players in Kobe and Wade whenever he won. Hakeem had freaking Horry/Maxwell/Cassell in the backcourt when he won it and such a dominant and versatile defensive anchor as well. He was clearly the MVP of both the offensive and the defense, as well as being the overall leader as well. This was something Shaq was just not able to become given his personality or his lack of liking to show up to camp on time and in shape (not a fatass). Plus Hakeem was just such a quality off the court guy that everyone gravitated towards him.
This is all while averaging 4 blocks per game in the 94 Finals... and averaging 29 ppg in BOTH 94 and 95 finals.. I mean the level of dominance on both ends of the court has really never been seen outside of Jordan. Shaq was always just the offensive juggernaut, he was a little too lazy to be great defensively, although he could have if he had Kobe's work ethic.
'93 to '94 Hakeem or '02 to '03 Duncan?
