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Old 08-15-2012, 02:47 AM   #46
joe
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Default Re: The Case for Gun Control

Why do democrats always talk about gun control when it comes to the PEOPLE.. but never when it comes to the government? Why does the state operate under such an extreme double standard in all cases? They keep all the guns/bombs/ammo.. and we walk around with box cutters? Good plan. Thousands of years of government oppression has taught humanity nothing.

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Yeah, lets just say **** it and live in anarchy.
What part of better regulation don't you understand?

I agree, sir.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:56 AM   #47
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Default Re: The Case for Gun Control

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Originally Posted by Milton
Right because people would stop murdering each other if all the guns went away.

10,000 is a statistic. it isn't a number that represents people who would only have been killed by guns. you are right a proportion of that 10,000 would be killed regardless of gun law. however that number would decrease dramatically without guns. so lets say it is cut by 50%. that is 5000 people per year who continue to live, which is more than the people killed on 9/11. if 9/11 happened every year would you try and do something to prevent the pointless deaths? or would you be fighting for the rights of the people committing the crime (whether they are consciously choosing to do so or not)?

taking away or modifying specific rights isn't an attack on freedom. because freedom for society is more important than freedom for the individual.

just to add, i am not equating all gun owners with terrorists. i'm using them as an example of changing laws to prevent undesirable outcomes. fighting for the rights of people who might be a danger to society isn't a demonstration of freedom.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:05 PM   #48
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Default Re: The Case for Gun Control

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Originally Posted by miller-time
10,000 is a statistic. it isn't a number that represents people who would only have been killed by guns. you are right a proportion of that 10,000 would be killed regardless of gun law. however that number would decrease dramatically without guns. so lets say it is cut by 50%. that is 5000 people per year who continue to live, which is more than the people killed on 9/11. if 9/11 happened every year would you try and do something to prevent the pointless deaths? or would you be fighting for the rights of the people committing the crime (whether they are consciously choosing to do so or not)?

taking away or modifying specific rights isn't an attack on freedom. because freedom for society is more important than freedom for the individual.

just to add, i am not equating all gun owners with terrorists. i'm using them as an example of changing laws to prevent undesirable outcomes. fighting for the rights of people who might be a danger to society isn't a demonstration of freedom.
First how do you plan on accomplishing this, criminals tend to ignore laws.

Taking away freedom is taking away freedom no matter how you try and look at it.

Source for statistic? For all I know all those 10 000 deserved it.
Why are places with very nonrestrictive gun laws not experiencing a vastly higher crime rate, according to you the difference should be around 50%,

Compare the crime rate in Vermont, no license test or anything needed to carry a gun, to Illinois where they are very restricted.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:19 PM   #49
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Default Re: The Case for Gun Control

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Originally Posted by Milton
First how do you plan on accomplishing this, criminals tend to ignore laws.

Taking away freedom is taking away freedom no matter how you try and look at it.

Source for statistic? For all I know all those 10 000 deserved it.
Why are places with very nonrestrictive gun laws not experiencing a vastly higher crime rate, according to you the difference should be around 50%,

Compare the crime rate in Vermont, no license test or anything needed to carry a gun, to Illinois where they are very restricted.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:22 PM   #50
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Default Re: The Case for Gun Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
10,000 is a statistic. it isn't a number that represents people who would only have been killed by guns. you are right a proportion of that 10,000 would be killed regardless of gun law. however that number would decrease dramatically without guns. so lets say it is cut by 50%. that is 5000 people per year who continue to live, which is more than the people killed on 9/11. if 9/11 happened every year would you try and do something to prevent the pointless deaths? or would you be fighting for the rights of the people committing the crime (whether they are consciously choosing to do so or not)?

taking away or modifying specific rights isn't an attack on freedom. because freedom for society is more important than freedom for the individual.

just to add, i am not equating all gun owners with terrorists. i'm using them as an example of changing laws to prevent undesirable outcomes. fighting for the rights of people who might be a danger to society isn't a demonstration of freedom.
You need to understand the basic premise that you cannot protect the freedom of society by taking away the freedoms of an individual.
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:24 PM   #51
magictricked
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Default Re: The Case for Gun Control

I you initiate stricter gun control laws you don't do it on the consumer end you have to cut it off at the place where they enter the market. CNN did a piece right after Aurora Colo. and reported 75% of the guns used in crimes are obtained illegally.

That has and always be the problem with gun control laws. Criminals are not walking into gun shops and buying guns, they're buying them on the black market, even if they banned gun sales across the nation it would just create another market for criminals to exploit. We can't stop drugs from pouring into the country don't know why people think guns would be different. The only thing that would dramatically change is the type of guns being used in crimes
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Old 08-15-2012, 02:44 PM   #52
Myth
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Default Re: The Case for Gun Control

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Originally Posted by The Macho Man
I don't know because I don't really give a shit but don't countries/states with tighter gun control have less gun violence?

This to me is the best argument out there one way or another. Outside of this argument, everybody just argues about hypotheticals and theories. Hand guns are the bigger issue to me. A concealed weapon is the most dangerous part. I think everybody should have the right to have a rifle. You can still go hunting with a rifle and you can protect your home with a rifle, but you can't walk around in public without people noticing you with a rifle.
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Old 08-15-2012, 03:54 PM   #53
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Default Re: The Case for Gun Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
This to me is the best argument out there one way or another. Outside of this argument, everybody just argues about hypotheticals and theories. Hand guns are the bigger issue to me. A concealed weapon is the most dangerous part. I think everybody should have the right to have a rifle. You can still go hunting with a rifle and you can protect your home with a rifle, but you can't walk around in public without people noticing you with a rifle.
It's not true though
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:05 PM   #54
DonDadda59
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Default Re: The Case for Gun Control

Is it just me or do some of the people arguing for no/less gun control sound like paranoid schizophrenics? Are you really gearing up to 'fight tyranny' like you're some militia member in the 1700s?
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:40 PM   #55
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Default Re: The Case for Gun Control

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Originally Posted by Milton
haha Set up well, the president has the power to indefinitely detain you and has been murdering American teenagers, I'd hate to see what you think a bad set up is.
Lets not even get into the massive theft used to bailout all the well connected rich people at your expense.

You've basically been reduced to arguing that Afghans are super people.

Are you really that dense?
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Old 08-15-2012, 04:52 PM   #56
Jailblazers7
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Default Re: The Case for Gun Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton
First how do you plan on accomplishing this, criminals tend to ignore laws.

Taking away freedom is taking away freedom no matter how you try and look at it.

Source for statistic? For all I know all those 10 000 deserved it.
Why are places with very nonrestrictive gun laws not experiencing a vastly higher crime rate, according to you the difference should be around 50%,

Compare the crime rate in Vermont, no license test or anything needed to carry a gun, to Illinois where they are very restricted.

I think you are mixing up the causal relationship between gun regulation and violent crime.
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Old 08-15-2012, 05:25 PM   #57
MAC system
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Default Re: The Case for Gun Control

I love when people bring up the topic of gun control and compare America to other countries murder rates, while completely ignoring the huge difference in minorities in America compared to those countries. If you don't think that has an impact on gun violence, you're a god damn fool.
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Old 08-15-2012, 07:31 PM   #58
Milton
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Default Re: The Case for Gun Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jailblazers7
I think you are mixing up the causal relationship between gun regulation and violent crime.
How so? I'm arguing that gun regulation has little effect on crime apart from disarming people who follow laws, since guns are just tools. Others are arguing that more guns equals more crime people going crazy and shooting each other so I'm showing them places where there are lots of guns and few rules restricting them where this is not the case.

Last edited by Milton : 08-15-2012 at 07:35 PM.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:16 PM   #59
Myth
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Default Re: The Case for Gun Control

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Originally Posted by Milton
How so? I'm arguing that gun regulation has little effect on crime apart from disarming people who follow laws, since guns are just tools. Others are arguing that more guns equals more crime people going crazy and shooting each other so I'm showing them places where there are lots of guns and few rules restricting them where this is not the case.

Only the more hardened criminals would go out of their way to get guns illegally. But the more casual criminals that commit crimes of convenience wouldn't go out of their way to get a gun through the black market. Same goes with kids who shoot up their schools. They get guns from their parents, they don't get guns from some shady guy on the street.
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Old 08-15-2012, 10:46 PM   #60
Milton
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Default Re: The Case for Gun Control

Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
Only the more hardened criminals would go out of their way to get guns illegally. But the more casual criminals that commit crimes of convenience wouldn't go out of their way to get a gun through the black market. Same goes with kids who shoot up their schools. They get guns from their parents, they don't get guns from some shady guy on the street.
Well they wouldn't need any since there victims would be defenseless.

But what makes guns special? The government has failed in all the other instances it has tried to keep from getting things.

Lets be realistic now you think someone who wants to shoot up a school is just going to change there mind because they have to leave their house to get a gun?
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