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Old 08-19-2012, 05:51 PM   #1
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Default How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

Is 10 assists as difficult as 20 points?

Is 10 rebounds as difficult as 20 points?

Are there diminishing returns?

For example, assume 10 assists is as difficult as 20 points. Would that mean 20 assists is as difficult as 40 points? Or are there diminishing returns? Where 10 assists = 20 points, but 15 assists = 40 points and 20 assists = 50 points.

How would you assess the difficulty of each stat by using points as the driver?
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Old 08-19-2012, 05:52 PM   #2
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Default Re: How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmd
Is 10 assists as difficult as 20 points?

Is 10 rebounds as difficult as 20 points?

Are there diminishing returns?

For example, assume 10 assists is as difficult as 20 points. Would that mean 20 assists is as difficult as 40 points? Or are there diminishing returns? Where 10 assists = 20 points, but 15 assists = 40 points and 20 assists = 50 points.

How would you assess the difficulty of each?

it depends.
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Old 08-19-2012, 05:52 PM   #3
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Default Re: How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

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Originally Posted by andgar923
it depends.
...on?
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Old 08-19-2012, 05:54 PM   #4
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Default Re: How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

an assist is not as hard as 2 points

its really up to the other guy to make the shot

an assist is valuable. but only if your spoon feeding the other guy


most assists come on a guy hitting a tough shot... only 1-2 times a game will a point guard absolutely make a guy get a wide up dunk right under the rim

magic was so valuable back in the 80's because he did this like 8 times a game


nobody in todays league comes close to spoon feeding like magic did
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Old 08-19-2012, 05:57 PM   #5
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Default Re: How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

Rebounding affect scoring and can directly give you points, get a offensive rebound in good postition and you're likely to get score or foul. Offenses score around 70% of the time on offensive rebounds.
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Old 08-19-2012, 05:59 PM   #6
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Default Re: How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

well, if we're talking about in terms of frequency:

in 2012 the average team scored 96.3 points a game, grabbed 42.2 rebounds, and 21.0 assists

source

meaning that, roughly:

20 points * (42.2 rpg / 96.3 ppg) = 8.76 rebounds

20 points * (21.0 apg / 96.3 ppg) = 4.36 assists

if you're talking about in terms of 'value', you'd have to run a regression on the entire dataset of individual games to come up with the matching points at which rebounds and assists equate the correlation to a win as 20 points (but that wouldn't be a true relationship or have any predictive value, just a summary of the results)
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:04 PM   #7
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Default Re: How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
well, if we're talking about in terms of frequency:

in 2012 the average team scored 96.3 points a game, grabbed 42.2 rebounds, and 21.0 assists

source

meaning that, roughly:

20 points * (42.2 rpg / 96.3 ppg) = 8.76 rebounds

20 points * (21.0 apg / 96.3 ppg) = 4.36 assists

if you're talking about in terms of 'value', you'd have to run a regression on the entire dataset of individual games to come up with the matching points at which rebounds and assists equate the correlation to a win as 20 points (but that wouldn't be a true relationship or have any predictive value, just a summary of the results)
I was looking at it in terms of individual players.

For example, people seem to give scoring more weight than other statistics. For example.. if a player averages 20 points a game but only 5 rebounds, how does that compare to somebody averaging 15 rebounds a game but only 10 points?
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmd
I was looking at it in terms of individual players.

For example, people seem to give scoring more weight than other statistics. For example.. if a player averages 20 points a game but only 5 rebounds, how does that compare to somebody averaging 15 rebounds a game but only 10 points?

well I guess that's one perspective...if you look at each possible event in a game in terms of what occurs:

action - result
free throw made - one point is scored
2 point field goal made - two points are scored
3 point field goal made - three points are scored
assist - either two or three points are scored
rebound - another possession is gained
steal - a possession is gained
block - a possession may or may not be lost (I believe the year-to-year median is around 55% of blocks grant possession to the blocking team)
turnover - a possession is lost

points are the result of an action, but not an action in and of themselves; perhaps FG are more comparable, using this logic (or points / 2, if you want to account for free throws and threes)
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:11 PM   #9
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Default Re: How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

In terms of single game play, here's how I see it.

Point Guards and Shooting Guards with 10 rebound = 20 points
Power Forwards and Centers with 10 assists = 20 points
Small Forward 10 rebounds or 10 assists, or 7+ rebound and 7+ assists = 20 points

For a full season average....I don't know. That's a little too hard to dissect. Maybe just use PER.

Last edited by AK47DR91 : 08-19-2012 at 06:13 PM.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:12 PM   #10
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Default Re: How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

Assists is a stupid stat, players actually have to make the shot.

And there are in the flow points and points that influence the way defenses play teams, it's really all weighted differently.

Stats overall are just a pile of crap TBH.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:13 PM   #11
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Default Re: How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

1.a 10 assists
1.b 20 points
2. 10 rebounds


10 assists = 20 to 30 points on your teams boxscore, yes the other guy scored, but would those players baskets had the same quality shots and results if you didnt create that play for him? hence why you get 1 assist and the other guy gets 2 points... you both were accountable for the 2-3 points on the boxscore...

20 points = 20 points on your teams boxscore

10 rebounds = meh... if they are offensive, then yea very nice, but otherwise not as valuable/impactful as 10 assists or 20 points (unless those points came by 30-40 FG attempts or something)...


Assists > Rebounds tho, undebatable... there is a reason you never saw anybody average over 15 APG... but you saw very many average over 15, even over 20, hell over 25 rebounds... 15 assists means you helped being accountable for 30 to 45 of your teams points per game... thats like a guy dropping between 30 to 45 points himself... same result on the boxscore...

Last edited by pauk : 08-19-2012 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:13 PM   #12
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Default Re: How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmd
...on?

The situations.

How they're obtained during which portion of the game.

There's different variables I suppose.

Just like with scoring points, not every point scored holds the same value imo.

Say a pg drives and delivers a perfect pass to an open player before the player knew he was open. Does that hold the same value? on the stat sheets I suppose it doesn't' matter, a pass is a pass and basket is a basket. But what if it's the 4th quarter in a close game, and Bird grabs the offensive rebound, and makes the quick pass to a cutting player for the easy bucket. Does that hold the same weight?

I know it's just one scenario, but I'm just trying to give an illustration.

In that sequence I described the point never gets scored if Bird doesn't get the rebound and makes the perfect pass.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:16 PM   #13
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Default Re: How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

I don't think there can not be a fair adjustment about it. Think about Magic Johnson. When he grabs the board, he starts a fast break and stat sheet says 1 rebound + 1 assist for Magic Johnson. Yet that just 2 points.

It'd be like a 25/12/3 big man vs. a 30/6/6 SG or 20/6/12 PG.

Last edited by Odinn : 08-19-2012 at 06:19 PM.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:18 PM   #14
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Default Re: How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
well I guess that's one perspective...if you look at each possible event in a game in terms of what occurs:

action - result
free throw made - one point is scored
2 point field goal made - two points are scored
3 point field goal made - three points are scored
assist - either two or three points are scored
rebound - another possession is gained
steal - a possession is gained
block - a possession may or may not be lost (I believe the year-to-year median is around 55% of blocks grant possession to the blocking team)
turnover - a possession is lost

points are the result of an action, but not an action in and of themselves; perhaps FG are more comparable, using this logic (or points / 2, if you want to account for free throws and threes)
Well, there are two ways to look at it.

1. Rebounds and assists are simply tools to use to achieve a goal. The goal is of course, points. Rebounds and assists mean nothing if they don't translate to points.

So you could try to find the average amount of points scored that were the direct or indirect result from a rebound or assist.

Then use that to judge how many rebounds or assists translates to points.

Or..

2. How do they compare in terms of difficulty. (this is more of what I was going for). For example... there was a thread on here yesterday talking about a game where John Stockton had like 20 points and 28 assists. Now, how difficult is it to get 28 assists in a game? Is it easier or harder than scoring 50 points?

How difficult is it to grab 25 boards in a game compared to scoring X amount of points in a game?

This is more of what I was going for.
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Old 08-19-2012, 06:20 PM   #15
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Default Re: How many assists and rebounds is the equivalent of a 20 point game?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
10 assists > 20 points > 10 rebounds


10 assists = 20 to 30 points on your teams boxscore

20 points = 20 points on your teams boxscore

10 rebounds = meh... if they are offensive, then yea very nice, but otherwise not as valuable as 10 assists or 20 points...
I disagree. It's the opposite when comparing rebound and assists.

It's usually just one guy(PG or ball-handler) who gets more than 6 assists on a team. For rebounds, you can have numerous guys with 6 or more. In a way, you're competing with for rebounds even within your own teammates.

Plus, you often hear people say championships are built on defense and rebounding. You don't often hear it with assists.
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