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Old 08-21-2012, 12:16 PM   #31
SilkkTheShocker
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Default Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by riseagainst
someone's insecure.

Insecure about what? Because Lebron doesn't shoot fadeaway jumpers all the time? Give me the more efficient, elite defending Lebron, anyday
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Old 08-21-2012, 12:18 PM   #32
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Default Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)

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Originally Posted by riseagainst
terrible logic. No one said being the most skilled player implies being the best to ever play. Not to mention the 5'3 guy probably won't even play the same position as Kwame Brown, so what's your point? "I'd take a center over a guard if they have the same value to a team." no sh*t sherlock.

My point was simple...it doesn't matter who is more "skilled". The only thing that matters is the player's overall ability.

And I just as easily could have said Derek Fisher and Mario Chalmers instead of Kwame Brown and Joel Anthony, so whatever you are getting at with the center vs guard thing doesn't even matter here.

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Old 08-22-2012, 12:29 AM   #33
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Default Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)

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Originally Posted by Niquesports
IT's crazy how people compare players of different era's. Jordan came into the league not with the jumper he developed,not with the post moves, not with the hitting the open man for a winning bucket. He developed most of this in his 8-10 year in the league.Lebron had gotten better each year. Im not sayiing he is more skilled than MJ just saying it took MJ a few years to develop also.

I agree with u! And I'm just stating how I see Bron's game as of now and not what it can be. Bron is already epic in my book. Peak value wise, give me MJ, Magic, Bird, Kobe,and Bron as the top five perimeter players ever. I just want Bron to get that killer instinct scoring more consistently like Magic, MJ, Bird,and Kobe had. If anything I just want Bron to punish teams more on the block, which he is starting to do more anyway. I'm not saying he doesn't have it, but those four are or were bloodthirsty when it came to winning. Bron just needs more moments, which I'm confident he will have.
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Old 08-22-2012, 12:34 AM   #34
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Default Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)

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Originally Posted by tmacattack33
My point was simple...it doesn't matter who is more "skilled". The only thing that matters is the player's overall ability.

And I just as easily could have said Derek Fisher and Mario Chalmers instead of Kwame Brown and Joel Anthony, so whatever you are getting at with the center vs guard thing doesn't even matter here.

Right on the money! It's all about the impact u have on the floor. U don't have to be the most skilled in every technical facet of the game. U don't have to always be the most versatile, it's about your impact. Dan Majerle was more skilled and versatile than Reggie Miller. But who was the better player and in the HOF, REGGIE!! The reason why is because Miller is one of the greatest shooters ever. Who was able to translate that into averaging over 20 points a night several seasons. And it enabled him to stand behind ONLY MJ and Kobe in total career points amongst SG's. And when it comes to clutch shot shit, Miller is up there with MJ, West, and Bird. So it's about IMPACT!
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Old 08-22-2012, 01:40 AM   #35
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Default Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)

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Originally Posted by coin24
Lebrons footwork, post up, jump shot are all pretty shit to be honest. He's great at barreling in for layups and dunks though
So skills wise I'd say hes not that great..

But he is a great rebounder and passer. Decent defender, definitely can't defend 1-5 like some retards claim..


Jordan>Kobe>lebron..
Jordan>>>Kobe>LeBron

Better like that.
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Old 08-22-2012, 03:03 AM   #36
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Default Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)

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Originally Posted by OldSchoolBBall
No, skills aren't the same thing as the ABILITY to do those things. Ability is ability, and can be attributable to any number of factors (skill, natural ability a la Magic for passing etc.). First off, Jordan was a more skilled rebounder than Lebron (timing/positioning, footwork/boxing out, reading the ball in the air etc.) and there is a case to be made that Lebron isn't even a better rebounder than Jordan, only equal (I would certainly take Jordan over Lebron if I needed a big rebound). At best it's a marginal difference. Lebron may be a better passer - again, only marginally if so. And much of this is due to his natural vision/size as opposed to technical SKILL in passing. Defense is certainly NOT even - Jordan wins that handily, especially the SKILL areas of defense (footwork, rotations etc.). Jordan DESTROYS Lebron in terms of post game, footwork (in any context), off-ball movement, screen usage/setting, use of fakes, craftiness etc.

Honestly, it's not really close. ROOKIE Jordan was doing things skill-wise that you still don't see from Lebron TODAY.

Lebron is a better rebounder than Jordan because of some know how on Lebron's part. He consistently gets gets more with less opportunities. Practical skill is related to know how, judgement and application. Skill without those three qualities is useless. As to how Lebron can have inferior timing, reading of the ball in the air and positioning yet consistently rebound better than the next guy even when he's guarding guys like Durant is when your delusion has gone into craziness.

No, Jordan wasn't the same passer Lebron is either. When Jordan was older he used wisdom and looked better than he did when he was younger but it didn't elevate him to some elite level. Jordan could create on over plays but he didn't use timing, delays, acutuity on whether to bounce or lob, to pass off the dribble, full court passes, superior positioning, know which player to get going or such. This hate first and make sense later is going to far!

Lebron learned to dribble, learned to pass, learned to rebound, learned to know the more complex defenses, learned to play different positions and their skillsets, learned to guard different positions and their skillset. Lebron learned when to use his superior judgment of when to pass and when to shoot. Lebron learned to how to integrate more players into the game. Lebron learned how to run a great fast break. Lebron learned his teammate's strengths. Lebron learned when let other's step up. Skill is moreso about applying what you know to get the desired outcome than it is about technical excellence.

From dictionary.com
1st meaning of skill.
the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well.

You try using the same skill set to play or guard a point guard and a power forward and see how far it gets you. Versatility is the biggest manifestation of skill sets. Blake has Lebron's athleticism and strength but the skill set is different. If Iggy had Lebron's skill set he would be the second best player.
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Old 08-22-2012, 03:05 AM   #37
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Default Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)

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Originally Posted by Vertical-24
LeBron may be nearly as talented and definitely as physically gifted as MJ (if not more), but skilled? Come on, and that's not a stab at LeBron but as far as overall skillset...LeBron is clearly inferior. Maybe down the road LeBron may have a case for GOAT, he's one of the most complete, well rounded, and productive players our league has ever seen. But at this point, LeBrons offensive game relies more on sheer athleticism, size and brute force than anything else aside from his great passing abilitity and playmaking.

And I'll agree, while I believe MJ is the greatest, I also don't believe he's the most "skilled". Kobe has a case for being more skilled than Michael even though he is not as good as him
overall.
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Old 08-22-2012, 03:18 AM   #38
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Default Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)

Kobe more skilled than Jordan?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5TezxxjlfA
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Old 08-22-2012, 03:37 AM   #39
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Default Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)

I didn't even read OP because the thread title already contained two mistakes.
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Old 08-22-2012, 08:44 AM   #40
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Default Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointguard
Lebron is a better rebounder than Jordan because of some know how on Lebron's part. He consistently gets gets more with less opportunities. Practical skill is related to know how, judgement and application. Skill without those three qualities is useless. As to how Lebron can have inferior timing, reading of the ball in the air and positioning yet consistently rebound better than the next guy even when he's guarding guys like Durant is when your delusion has gone into craziness.

Lebron averages one more rebound than Jordan (and far fewer offensive boards, which are the more valuable and difficult boards to get) despite being 2+" taller, 40-60 pounds heavier, and playing with worse rebounders his whole career than Jordan did and playing against far smaller and less physical front lines. As I said, that's a MARGINAL difference at best, and imo Jordan is pretty clearly the more skilled rebounder.

Quote:
No, Jordan wasn't the same passer Lebron is either. When Jordan was older he used wisdom and looked better than he did when he was younger but it didn't elevate him to some elite level. Jordan could create on over plays but he didn't use timing, delays, acutuity on whether to bounce or lob, to pass off the dribble, full court passes, superior positioning, know which player to get going or such.

This is a joke. Again, Lebron may be a MARGINALLY better passer, but that's about it. The magnitude of Lebron's advantages at rebounding and passing is nothing next to the gulf that exists between them as scorers, especially when taking into account portability of scoring skills. Lebron is many team contexts would NOT be a 27+ ppg scorer. Prime Jordan ('90 onward) would be a 28+ ppg scorer in ANY team context. Jordan is also clearly the better defender - don't let Lebron's defensive hype fool you.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:26 AM   #41
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Default Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)

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Originally Posted by Connor B
I didn't even read OP because the thread title already contained two mistakes.

then you're a moron.
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:14 AM   #42
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Default Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)

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Originally Posted by OldSchoolBBall
Lebron averages one more rebound than Jordan (and far fewer offensive boards, which are the more valuable and difficult boards to get) despite being 2+" taller, 40-60 pounds heavier, and playing with worse rebounders his whole career than Jordan did and playing against far smaller and less physical front lines. As I said, that's a MARGINAL difference at best, and imo Jordan is pretty clearly the more skilled rebounder.



This is a joke. Again, Lebron may be a MARGINALLY better passer, but that's about it. The magnitude of Lebron's advantages at rebounding and passing is nothing next to the gulf that exists between them as scorers, especially when taking into account portability of scoring skills. Lebron is many team contexts would NOT be a 27+ ppg scorer. Prime Jordan ('90 onward) would be a 28+ ppg scorer in ANY team context. Jordan is also clearly the better defender - don't let Lebron's defensive hype fool you.

Not really.

Lebron is a top 5 passer in the game today, maybe top 3. He's the best non-PG passer since Larry Bird.

MJ was an average passer.
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:27 AM   #43
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Default Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)

Lebron clearly is not as skilled as Jordan. Just like Shaq was not as skilled as Hakeem. Doesn't make either better or worse than the other.
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:28 AM   #44
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Default Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)

Jordan was a skilled scorer, but that's all he's got on LeBron. Scoring is less than half of the game. Defense, rebounding, passing, and scoring are the four main skills in basketball and LeBron is better at three of them than Jordan.
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Old 08-22-2012, 11:31 AM   #45
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Default Re: Lebron is NOT more skilled than Jordan (who isn't even the most skilled player ever)

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Originally Posted by OldSchoolBBall
Lebron averages one more rebound than Jordan (and far fewer offensive boards, which are the more valuable and difficult boards to get) despite being 2+" taller, 40-60 pounds heavier, and playing with worse rebounders his whole career than Jordan did and playing against far smaller and less physical front lines. As I said, that's a MARGINAL difference at best, and imo Jordan is pretty clearly the more skilled rebounder.



This is a joke. Again, Lebron may be a MARGINALLY better passer, but that's about it. The magnitude of Lebron's advantages at rebounding and passing is nothing next to the gulf that exists between them as scorers, especially when taking into account portability of scoring skills. Lebron is many team contexts would NOT be a 27+ ppg scorer. Prime Jordan ('90 onward) would be a 28+ ppg scorer in ANY team context. Jordan is also clearly the better defender - don't let Lebron's defensive hype fool you.


Also, I'd like to point out the ridiculousness of your scoring "portability" claims. You have absolutely no evidence to support that claim.

We have seen Lebron score 30 ppg as the main man on a team which surrounded him with role players, and we've also seen him put up 30 ppg alongside two other star offensive players.

(Also, we never even saw Jordan as a 30 ppg scorer on another team. This doesn't matter as much as the above point about Lebron though, since Jordan likely would have been a 30 ppg scorer no matter what team he was on).

So, wtf are you talking about?
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