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Old 08-22-2012, 03:32 PM   #76
Freedom Kid7
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Default Re: are the people who voted shaq the 7th best player ever hypocrites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne 1
Just going by the faux category of "rings as the man" then Bill Russell is far and away the undisputed GOAT then.
That's not the only thing I use. Consistency, peak, etc all factor in. DO I factor rings maybe a bit too much? Sure why not. But I'm not blinded by that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne 1
This is not a real category. People throw it out as a statistical category. Does anyone outside of ISH and similar sites comprised of a tiny fraction of hardcore elitist fans care about this? This is a rhetorical question. No one does. Rings are rings. Walk into the local sports bar tonight and ask people how many rings Kobe, or for that matter Shaq or Magic have. 5, 4, and 5. It is hilarious how elitist fans obsess over a fictional category that is based on subjective factors and is irrelevant. If "the man" could win without the "sidekick" it would mean something but many players have proved this cannot be done, aside from Hakeem, Duncan, and Barry. Look at LeBron before Wade. Look at Kobe before Gasol. Look at Jordan before before Pippen and the list goes on and on.
I see you're point.
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:45 PM   #77
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Default Re: are the people who voted shaq the 7th best player ever hypocrites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
this is how the average debate with an ISH poster usually goes

-------------------------------------------------

what makes shaq better than kobe for the 7th best player all time?


= "MOST DOMINANT EVER YO! NO ONE MATCHES HIS PEAK PLAY"


then why isnt he ranked #1 all time. whyd you rank jordan/wilt/bird/kareem/russell/magic ahead of him?

= "BECAUSE THEIR CAREERS ARE BETTER THAN SHAQS"


shaqs career is better than wilts


= "BECAUSE WILT IS THE MOST DOMINANT EVER!"


i thought shaq was the MDE?


= "HE IS!.... WHEN COMPARED TO KOBE HE IS!"


so what is it? careers or primes? is it MJ, Russell, Kareem #1,2,3 or is it Wilt/Shaq/Hakeem as the 1,2,3 best players ever. because you cant change the criteria based on how you want your favorite players to be ranked all time


= "WE DONT CHANGE!"



then you have to put kobe over wilt and shaq. because you put jordan, bird, magic, kareem, russell over wilt and shaq based on having better overall careers



= "SHAQ AND WILT WERE WAY MORE DOMINANT IN THEIR ABSOLUTE PRIME THOUGH!"


yea.... they were also way more dominant in their absolute prime than jordan, bird, kareem, russell, and magic

if there was an all time draft on primes...youd probably have shaq, wilt, hakeem, oscar all go with the first 4 picks


= "NO WAY! I'D PICK JORDAN OVER SHAQ AND WILT!


but i thought wilt and shaq were the MDE in their primes?


= "THEY ARE! IDIOT!"






---------------------------------------

can the mods please shut down these player ranking threads. its obviously an agenda driven bias trolling thread to piss off us laker/kobe fans

LOL this fool is
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Old 08-22-2012, 06:47 PM   #78
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Default Re: are the people who voted shaq the 7th best player ever hypocrites?

You are the whiniest little bitch on this forum. Give it a rest.
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:31 PM   #79
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Default Re: are the people who voted shaq the 7th best player ever hypocrites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overdrive
Interesting that the OP, Alphadog or whatever his name is and KOBE143 stated that 99% of the basketball community agress that either Kobe>Shaq, Kobe's definite TOP 5 GOAT or I even read somewhere that he's the GOAT however on those polls he's none of that.


http://www.nba.com/alldecade/vote13/

- In TNT's basketball poll thousnds upon thousands of basketball fans..

Kobe was voted player of the decade 2000 - 2009 , Duncan came in 2nd.



- Sporting news has Kobe as the greatest NBA athlete of th decadehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_News

they also had Kobe ranked higher alltine the Both Shaq and Duncan



we get it....certain fans online hate Kobe/lakers....(hey look guy's....I'll go online and and sound like I know basketball and put Duncan and Shaq....heck may even put Big O over Kobe...makes me sound like a basketball elite fan!)


there's always 1%
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:34 PM   #80
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Default Re: are the people who voted shaq the 7th best player ever hypocrites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
this is how the average debate with an ISH poster usually goes

-------------------------------------------------

what makes shaq better than kobe for the 7th best player all time?


= "MOST DOMINANT EVER YO! NO ONE MATCHES HIS PEAK PLAY"


then why isnt he ranked #1 all time. whyd you rank jordan/wilt/bird/kareem/russell/magic ahead of him?

= "BECAUSE THEIR CAREERS ARE BETTER THAN SHAQS"


shaqs career is better than wilts


= "BECAUSE WILT IS THE MOST DOMINANT EVER!"


i thought shaq was the MDE?


= "HE IS!.... WHEN COMPARED TO KOBE HE IS!"


so what is it? careers or primes? is it MJ, Russell, Kareem #1,2,3 or is it Wilt/Shaq/Hakeem as the 1,2,3 best players ever. because you cant change the criteria based on how you want your favorite players to be ranked all time


= "WE DONT CHANGE!"



then you have to put kobe over wilt and shaq. because you put jordan, bird, magic, kareem, russell over wilt and shaq based on having better overall careers



= "SHAQ AND WILT WERE WAY MORE DOMINANT IN THEIR ABSOLUTE PRIME THOUGH!"


yea.... they were also way more dominant in their absolute prime than jordan, bird, kareem, russell, and magic

if there was an all time draft on primes...youd probably have shaq, wilt, hakeem, oscar all go with the first 4 picks


= "NO WAY! I'D PICK JORDAN OVER SHAQ AND WILT!


but i thought wilt and shaq were the MDE in their primes?


= "THEY ARE! IDIOT!"






---------------------------------------

can the mods please shut down these player ranking threads. its obviously an agenda driven bias trolling thread to piss off us laker/kobe fans


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Old 08-22-2012, 07:37 PM   #81
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Default Re: are the people who voted shaq the 7th best player ever hypocrites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by kennethgriffin
this is how the average debate with an ISH poster usually goes

-------------------------------------------------

what makes shaq better than kobe for the 7th best player all time?


= "MOST DOMINANT EVER YO! NO ONE MATCHES HIS PEAK PLAY"


then why isnt he ranked #1 all time. whyd you rank jordan/wilt/bird/kareem/russell/magic ahead of him?

= "BECAUSE THEIR CAREERS ARE BETTER THAN SHAQS"


shaqs career is better than wilts


= "BECAUSE WILT IS THE MOST DOMINANT EVER!"


i thought shaq was the MDE?


= "HE IS!.... WHEN COMPARED TO KOBE HE IS!"


so what is it? careers or primes? is it MJ, Russell, Kareem #1,2,3 or is it Wilt/Shaq/Hakeem as the 1,2,3 best players ever. because you cant change the criteria based on how you want your favorite players to be ranked all time


= "WE DONT CHANGE!"



then you have to put kobe over wilt and shaq. because you put jordan, bird, magic, kareem, russell over wilt and shaq based on having better overall careers



= "SHAQ AND WILT WERE WAY MORE DOMINANT IN THEIR ABSOLUTE PRIME THOUGH!"


yea.... they were also way more dominant in their absolute prime than jordan, bird, kareem, russell, and magic

if there was an all time draft on primes...youd probably have shaq, wilt, hakeem, oscar all go with the first 4 picks


= "NO WAY! I'D PICK JORDAN OVER SHAQ AND WILT!


but i thought wilt and shaq were the MDE in their primes?


= "THEY ARE! IDIOT!"






---------------------------------------

can the mods please shut down these player ranking threads. its obviously an agenda driven bias trolling thread to piss off us laker/kobe fans




so true, though. Kobe always gets the double standard treatment.
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:44 PM   #82
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Default Re: are the people who voted shaq the 7th best player ever hypocrites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlphaWolf24
http://www.nba.com/alldecade/vote13/

- In TNT's basketball poll thousnds upon thousands of basketball fans..

Kobe was voted player of the decade 2000 - 2009 , Duncan came in 2nd.



- Sporting news has Kobe as the greatest NBA athlete of th decadehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_News

they also had Kobe ranked higher alltine the Both Shaq and Duncan



we get it....certain fans online hate Kobe/lakers....(hey look guy's....I'll go online and and sound like I know basketball and put Duncan and Shaq....heck may even put Big O over Kobe...makes me sound like a basketball elite fan!)


there's always 1%

You think any poll represent 99% of all basketball fans?

I got Shaq and Kobe on the same AT spot, because there's no definate answer to those questions actually and their careers are tight together massively.

It's not about elite fandom, hating or anything. I hated Kobe for about his whole career, but he's one of the greatest players ever. No doubt about it.

I think it's wrong to put up a definite answer based on criteria without probable definitions.

What makes a player > another?

Aside from that you cannot compare Shaq and Kobe with "player of the decade awards" since Shaq didn't have his prime stretched over either the 90s or the 00s.

btw: sorry, I remembered your name wrong.

Last edited by Overdrive : 08-22-2012 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:45 PM   #83
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Default Re: are the people who voted shaq the 7th best player ever hypocrites?

Somebody is mad.
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:48 PM   #84
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Default Re: are the people who voted shaq the 7th best player ever hypocrites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overdrive
You think any poll represent 99% of all basketball fans?

I got Shaq and Kobe on the same AT spot, because there's no definate answer to those questions actually and their careers are tight together massively.

It's not about elite fandom, hating or anything. I hated Kobe for about his whole career, but he's one of the greatest players ever. No doubt about it.

I think it's wrong to put up a definite answer based on criteria without probable definitions.

What makes a player > another?

it doesn't, but surveys and polls are what alot of organizations use to get a general idea of the public. If that TNT poll is indeed voted on by thousands of people, wouldn't that better represent the public opinion better than just 30-40 people on a forum?
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:53 PM   #85
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Default Re: are the people who voted shaq the 7th best player ever hypocrites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by riseagainst
it doesn't, but surveys and polls are what alot of organizations use to get a general idea of the public. If that TNT poll is indeed voted on by thousands of people, wouldn't that better represent the public opinion better than just 30-40 people on a forum?

Yes, it has a bigger value in estimating the outcome of a even bigger poll, up to 100%, but basketball is huge. Some 10.000 still only respresent maybe 1% of the whole basketball fandom worldwide(and even there it's not 99%).
Relatively speaking 40 is not that much different from 10.000.

Still Kobe is great, but it's no upset that Shaq is considered > Kobe by some people.
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Old 08-22-2012, 07:55 PM   #86
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Default Re: are the people who voted shaq the 7th best player ever hypocrites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overdrive
Yes, it has a bigger value in estimating the outcome of a even bigger poll, up to 100%, but basketball is huge. Some 10.000 still only respresent maybe 1% of the whole basketball fandom worldwide(and even there it's not 99%).
Relatively speaking 40 is not that much different from 10.000.

Still Kobe is great, but it's no upset that Shaq is considered > Kobe by some people.

I agree with that. I was only commenting on the polls part.
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Old 08-22-2012, 08:11 PM   #87
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Default Re: are the people who voted shaq the 7th best player ever hypocrites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overdrive
Yes, it has a bigger value in estimating the outcome of a even bigger poll, up to 100%, but basketball is huge. Some 10.000 still only respresent maybe 1% of the whole basketball fandom worldwide(and even there it's not 99%).
Relatively speaking 40 is not that much different from 10.000.

Still Kobe is great, but it's no upset that Shaq is considered > Kobe by some people.

The thing is those 10000 people may not even be knowledgeable basketball fans. So there's actually a lot to factor in and not just the sheer quantity of the votes.
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Old 08-22-2012, 08:14 PM   #88
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Default Re: are the people who voted shaq the 7th best player ever hypocrites?

Lettuce not forget perimeter play is greatly valued over big play in the eyes of the general fan. Skewing the data homie statistics 101.
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Old 08-23-2012, 02:49 AM   #89
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Default Re: are the people who voted shaq the 7th best player ever hypocrites?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ne 1
Just going by the faux category of "rings as the man" then Bill Russell is far and away the undisputed GOAT then.

This is not a real category. People throw it out as a statistical category. Does anyone outside of ISH and similar sites comprised of a tiny fraction of hardcore elitist fans care about this? This is a rhetorical question. No one does. Rings are rings. Walk into the local sports bar tonight and ask people how many rings Kobe, or for that matter Shaq or Magic have. 5, 4, and 5. It is hilarious how elitist fans obsess over a fictional category that is based on subjective factors and is irrelevant. If "the man" could win without the "sidekick" it would mean something but many players have proved this cannot be done, aside from Hakeem, Duncan, and Barry. Look at LeBron before Wade. Look at Kobe before Gasol. Look at Jordan before before Pippen and the list goes on and on.

Well said

To further add to your point, there aren't special wings in the Basketball HOF for championships as "the man" or as a "sidekick." The only people who try to split hairs like that are haters who desperately need to grasp at straws, trying to discredit another player.
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Old 08-23-2012, 03:11 AM   #90
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Default Re: are the people who voted shaq the 7th best player ever hypocrites?

Shaq is top 10, Kobe isn't. Get over it. QQ
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