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Old 08-22-2012, 10:23 PM   #46
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Default Re: Lennon or McCartney, mates?

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Originally Posted by Freedom Kid7
. I've never disagreed with someone anymore than I am disagreeing with you right now. I agree with the first part, but that second part I can't logically say Slash and Izzy are better guitarists than John and George. I feel this is a terrible comparison. The Beatles were the first great rock band. GNR were awesome hard rock guys. And Axl can go to hell. I'd take Bon Scott or Roth as superior singers. Hell, I'd argue Brian Johnson is better too.

But to each their own. I have AC/DC and Death as my favorite bands, and I get GNR as your favorite.



btw, you can easily find a few 13 year olds in your neighborhood that are more skilled guitarists than John and George. Not an exaggeration. 100% literal. I myself am a more technically skilled guitar player than John Lennon or George Harrison could ever dream of being.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:24 PM   #47
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Default Re: Lennon or McCartney, mates?

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Originally Posted by NumberSix



btw, you can easily find a few 13 year olds in your neighborhood that are more skilled guitarists than John and George. Not an exaggeration. 100% literal. I myself am a more technically skilled guitar player than John Lennon or George Harrison could ever dream of being.
That's exaggerating. George was a great guitarist, John wasn't anything special but George was a great guitarist.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:26 PM   #48
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Default Re: Lennon or McCartney, mates?

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That's exaggerating. George was a great guitarist, John wasn't anything special but George was a great guitarist.
He was good, but simply can't compare to the technical skill level that is the the norm today.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:27 PM   #49
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Default Re: Lennon or McCartney, mates?

Find me another rock singer who can do this: http://youtu.be/oAkQNf_FvEI?t=4m28s



Axl's natural voice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOqDCSRNgj4
Axl's usual singing voice: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IsHLTdoRME




Peak Axl Rose: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H0mxN0SKFu4 and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsyAJXs7C_w




Love him or hate him, that is greatness right there
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:29 PM   #50
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Default Re: Lennon or McCartney, mates?

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Originally Posted by NumberSix
He was good, but simply can't compare to the technical skill level that is the the norm today.
You have to compare him to what time he played in. I also look at it like this: George played great music, that is big in my book, more so than technical skill a lot of the time. EVH is technically amazing but he plays with no soul if you get what I'm trying to say. Rock music today is complete shit anyways, at least mainstream rock is. I've yet to hear a guitarist close to Randy Rhoads or Jimi Hendrix anyways.

BTW: responding to previous post, I'd take prime Steven Tyler over Plant.

Last edited by RRR3 : 08-22-2012 at 10:33 PM.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:35 PM   #51
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Default Re: Lennon or McCartney, mates?

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Originally Posted by RRR3
You have to compare him to what time he played in. Rock music today is complete shit anyways, at least mainstream rock is. I've yet to hear a guitarist close to Randy Rhoads or Jimi Hendrix anyways.
It's not hard to find a teenager who can can play play Voodoo Chile note for note. There's plenty of guitar players today who from a technical sense are worlds beyond hendrix, but it don't matter because they can't write a song worth listening to.

Randy is great, but he can't hold a candle to Allan Holdsworth or Al Di Meola. The difference is that people hear Hendrix and Rhoads because they played songs worth listening to.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:37 PM   #52
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Default Re: Lennon or McCartney, mates?

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Originally Posted by NumberSix
It's not hard to find a teenager who can can play play Voodoo Chile note for note. There's plenty of guitar players today who from a technical sense are worlds beyond hendrix, but it don't matter because they can't write a song worth listening to.

Randy is great, but he can't hold a candle to Allan Holdsworth or Al Di Meola. The difference is that people hear Hendrix and Rhoads because they played songs worth listening to.
Being able to play a song doesn't mean they are close as a guitarist. Songwriting, skill relative to era are important to consider. If Rhoads or Hendrix were still alive, they'd blow those scrubs away even farther. It's like comparing Andrew Bogut to Wilt And there are not plenty of guitarists who could improvise on stage the way RR or Hendrix could.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:39 PM   #53
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Default Re: Lennon or McCartney, mates?

when do you guys think they'll stop making 'the simpsons'

its like, they stopped being funny so long ago


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Old 08-22-2012, 10:40 PM   #54
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Default Re: Lennon or McCartney, mates?

There's plenty of people who can PLAY this music but coming up with it is a different thing. Does the fact that people can play Mozart make him less talented? No. Harrison and all them made money of innovation not skill. Also, who knows if they explored the full length of their technical ability? Some styles of music aren't conducive to showcasing full talent.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:41 PM   #55
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Default Re: Lennon or McCartney, mates?

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Originally Posted by KyrieTheFuture
There's plenty of people who can PLAY this music but coming up with it is a different thing. Does the fact that people can play Mozart make him less talented? No. Harrison and all them made money of innovation not skill. Also, who knows if they explored the full length of their technical ability? Some styles of music aren't conducive to showcasing full talent.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:44 PM   #56
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Default Re: Lennon or McCartney, mates?

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Originally Posted by RRR3
I legitimately hate many aspects of Axl Rose FYI. Doesn't mean I have ever heard rock a singer I considered better or even equal to him. I love AC/DC, but neither Scott or Johnson have the range and power of Rose IMO. David Lee Roth sucks WTF. I like Van Halen but he's not a good singer. Slash is better than George Harrison I fail to see how he's not. I just saw Slash recently he's pretty ****ing great, although he's overrated by a lot of people (and I'm a huge Slash stan)

I see where your coming from. I don't think DLR sucks, I like his voice and he utilizes it well, etc. but that's just me. I grew up with Van Halen, AC/DC, Floyd and Zep. I think Johnson possibly has a similar range but probably not the same power and Scott has the same power but not the same range. Regarding the guitarists, if you want to get on technicality then yes Slash is better, but you can always argue the impact, influence, musicianship, etc. And maybe I'm underrating GnR because Goddamn for a while that's all my friends listened to and it got old quickly. I still hate Sweet Child of Mine after hearing that riff a million Goddamn times .

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
btw, you can easily find a few 13 year olds in your neighborhood that are more skilled guitarists than John and George. Not an exaggeration. 100% literal. I myself am a more technically skilled guitar player than John Lennon or George Harrison could ever dream of being.

If we go by technicality, then John Petrucci is the GOAT Guitarist, but you have to consider impact and influence and how it sounded. Just because you're technically great doesn't mean you can put together a good song. Look at Technical Death Metal. The genre has good technical guitarists, but if they go haywire on the guitar and show off their skills in the song without producing anything memorable or all, I'd still take the riffs of the Young brothers.


And for reference, the man in my avatar is my favorite guitarist, but that's just me.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:46 PM   #57
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Default Re: Lennon or McCartney, mates?

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Originally Posted by RRR3
Being able to play a song doesn't mean they are close as a guitarist. Songwriting, skill relative to era are important to consider. If Rhoads or Hendrix were still alive, they'd blow those scrubs away even farther. It's like comparing Andrew Bogut to Wilt
I'm sorry, but if you think Al Di Meola is a "scrub", then you're out of you're element in this conversation.


As for songwriting, etc.... I don't disagree, but the only objective points to judge are of technical proficiency. I don't like getting into discussions of "X" writes better music than "Y" or that "A" has a better musical sensibility than "B". Those are matters of preference or taste. Who am I to definitively say that Neil Young writes better songs than Eric Clapton. I mean, I do actually believe that, but just because I like many of his songs better doesn't make it so.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:48 PM   #58
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Default Re: Lennon or McCartney, mates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freedom Kid7
I see where your coming from. I don't think DLR sucks, I like his voice and he utilizes it well, etc. but that's just me. I grew up with Van Halen, AC/DC, Floyd and Zep. I think Johnson possibly has a similar range but probably not the same power and Scott has the same power but not the same range. Regarding the guitarists, if you want to get on technicality then yes Slash is better, but you can always argue the impact, influence, musicianship, etc. And maybe I'm underrating GnR because Goddamn for a while that's all my friends listened to and it got old quickly. I still hate Sweet Child of Mine after hearing that riff a million Goddamn times .



If we go by technicality, then John Petrucci is the GOAT Guitarist, but you have to consider impact and influence and how it sounded. Just because you're technically great doesn't mean you can put together a good song. Look at Technical Death Metal. The genre has good technical guitarists, but if they go haywire on the guitar and show off their skills in the song without producing anything memorable or all, I'd still take the riffs of the Young brothers.


And for reference, the man in my avatar is my favorite guitarist, but that's just me.

Agree with you on guitarists. I wouldn't have a problem with George being over Slash on a GOAT guitarist list (though I'd definitely have a problem if John was over Slash), because of the things you listed. Fun fact: IIRC Slash himself isn't very fond of SCOM, partly because people overrate it and he was just ****in' around when he came up with that riff and doesn't like it being considered his best work because of that. Furthermore, Randy Rhoads technical skill was off the charts (listen to him ****ing around during live concerts), and it still is IMO, so I disagree with numbersix there. Plus RR played with his heart, he didn't just play uninspired shit like a lot of these guys do.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:49 PM   #59
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Default Re: Lennon or McCartney, mates?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
I'm sorry, but if you think Al Di Meola is a "scrub", then you're out of you're element in this conversation.


As for songwriting, etc.... I don't disagree, but the only objective points to judge are of technical proficiency. I don't like getting into discussions of "X" writes better music than "Y" or that "A" has a better musical sensibility than "B". Those are matters of preference or taste. Who am I to definitively say that Neil Young writes better songs than Eric Clapton. I mean, I do actually believe that, but just because I like many of his songs better doesn't make it so.
Al Di Meola dominates in a weak era. RR has a much higher PER too.
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Old 08-22-2012, 10:50 PM   #60
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Default Re: Lennon or McCartney, mates?

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Originally Posted by KyrieTheFuture
There's plenty of people who can PLAY this music but coming up with it is a different thing. Does the fact that people can play Mozart make him less talented? No. Harrison and all them made money of innovation not skill. Also, who knows if they explored the full length of their technical ability? Some styles of music aren't conducive to showcasing full talent.
This is true. My standpoint is that the Beatles were mediocre musicians that wrote songs that lots of people really liked.

At the end of the day the art > the artist, but I don't really like saying one person's art is better than another person's. I can EASILY say who's is more popular. That's easy. The work itself is to subjective to compare.
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