Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-27-2012, 07:56 PM   #166
NoGunzJustSkillz
2015
 
NoGunzJustSkillz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,787
Default Re: If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberSix
Wasn't this exact argument made by Kobetards that if LeBron couldn't win with Wade & Bosh it would diminish his legacy? Oh, these rules don't apply now?

Hypocrisy much?
If Kobe, Nash, Dwight and Pau were still in their primes then yes, the same argument could be made.
NoGunzJustSkillz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 08:00 PM   #167
RaininTwos
Betrayed
 
RaininTwos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,238
Default Re: If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGunzJustSkillz
If Kobe, Nash, Dwight and Pau were still in their primes then yes, the same argument could be made.
That makes no sense. It's not like they are all a year from retirement, all of them are top ten and three out of the four could be argued as top 5 players at their position.

This is ridiculous man.

If you are going to hold a player to absurdly high standards, then be consistent. If you are going to be hypocritical then call a spade a spade and admit the fact that your boy is lesser.

This flip flopping Kobe fans have done over the past couple years in terms of logic is just disgusting. You guys have no shame.
RaininTwos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 08:09 PM   #168
NoGunzJustSkillz
2015
 
NoGunzJustSkillz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,787
Default Re: If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininTwos
That makes no sense. It's not like they are all a year from retirement, all of them are top ten and three out of the four could be argued as top 5 players at their position.

This is ridiculous man.

If you are going to hold a player to absurdly high standards, then be consistent. If you are going to be hypocritical then call a spade a spade and admit the fact that your boy is lesser.

This flip flopping Kobe fans have done over the past couple years in terms of logic is just disgusting. You guys have no shame.
What the fck is This geek talking about? When Lebron teamed up with bosh and wade, the argument was Lebron betTer win a championship since all three of these guys are in their primes. I didn't engage in them arguments, but they did exist. Nobody is saying Kobe, Dwight and Nash should win it cause they're all in their prime. They are saying they should win because they are super talented.

Last edited by NoGunzJustSkillz : 08-27-2012 at 08:13 PM.
NoGunzJustSkillz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 08:14 PM   #169
9erempiree
26 yrs of watching NBA
 
9erempiree's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: California of America
Posts: 10,001
Default Re: If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

Such stupid logic and claim the OP. You don't fall out of the top 10 unless someone surpasses you and Kobe is top 6. So 5 guys in the future would have to leap over him. It would take 6 Lebron's just to do that and they are once in a lifetime players.

It may take 50 years to see guys start dropping. Look at Wilt slowly dropping down on the list and that was because of guys like Jordan and perhaps Kobe. Only 2 players in a 50 year span.
9erempiree is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 08:20 PM   #170
riseagainst
Decent college freshman
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 2,839
Default Re: If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininTwos
That makes no sense. It's not like they are all a year from retirement, all of them are top ten and three out of the four could be argued as top 5 players at their position.

This is ridiculous man.

If you are going to hold a player to absurdly high standards, then be consistent. If you are going to be hypocritical then call a spade a spade and admit the fact that your boy is lesser.

This flip flopping Kobe fans have done over the past couple years in terms of logic is just disgusting. You guys have no shame.

what have they been flip flopping?

anyway so what ur saying is: if Bill Russell, Michael Jordan, Magic, and Bird came back from retirement RIGHT NOW and played on a team as starters with, let's say Blake Griffin (and let's assume he already has 5 rings with 2 fmvps prior to this). Your logic is saying if that team doesn't win then Blake Griffin will NEVER EVER be considered a top 10 player?
riseagainst is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 09:19 PM   #171
Anaximandro1
Great young streetballer
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 586
Default Re: If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by TROLL_HUNTER
wether or not Kobe is a top 10 this should have already been decided at this point of his career.
Fans have different criteria as to what is important to them.

I'm pretty confident that Kobe doesn't belong in the Top 10,in terms of level of play,for several reasons:

-Elite big men are more dominant on the defensive side

-Kobe is a mediocre team player

-Bryant plays great against teams with a weakness in their perimeter defense (Spurs 2001 or 2008), but struggles to score against elite defenses.

Quote:
1999 Western Conference Semifinals/ Spurs 4-0 over Lakers

21.2 pts (FG 44.7%)

2000 NBA Finals/ Lakers 4-2 over Pacers

15.6 pts (FG 36.7%)

2001 NBA Finals Finals/ Lakers 4-1 over Sixers

24.6 pts (FG 41.5%)

2003 Western Conference Semifinals/ Spurs 4-2 over Lakers

32.2 pts (FG 43.4% Kobe missed 90 of 159 shots)

2004 NBA Finals / Pistons 4-1 over Lakers

22.6 pts (FG 38.0%)

2008 NBA Finals / Celtics 4-2 over Lakers

25.7 pt (FG 40.5%)

2010 NBA Finals / Lakers 4-3 over Celtics

28.6 pts (FG 40.5%)

2011 Western Conference Semifinals / Mavs 4-0 over Lakers

23.3 pts (FG 45.8%)

-Kobe has never been the best player in the NBA. There is overwhelming evidence.


GM Survey: If you were starting a franchise today and could sign any player in the NBA, who would it be?

Quote:
2002
1. Shaquille O'Neal,L.A. Lakers
2. Tim Duncan,San Antonio

2003
1. Tim Duncan,San Antonio
2. Shaquille O'Neal,L.A. Lakers

2004
1 Tim Duncan, San Antonio 47.6%
2 Kevin Garnett, Minnesota 28.6%
3 LeBron James, Cleveland 14.3%
4 Shaquille O'Neal, Miami 9.5

2005
1. Tim Duncan, San Antonio 40.0%
2. LeBron James, Cleveland 36.0%
3. Shaquille O'Neal, Miami 8.0%
4. Amare Stoudemire, Phoenix 8.0%

2006
1 LeBron James, Cleveland 71.4%
2 Dwyane Wade, Miami 10.7%

2007
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 59.3%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 25.9%
3. Tim Duncan, San Antonio 11.1%
Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 11.1%
5. Dirk Nowitzki, Dallas 3.7%

2008
1. LeBron James -- 66.7%
2. Kobe Bryant -- 18.5%
3. Dwight Howard -- 11.1%
4. Chris Paul - 3.7%

2009
1. LeBron James, Cleveland 78.6%
2. Dwight Howard, Orlando 14.3%
3. Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers 7.1%

2010
1. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City 55.6%
2. LeBron James, Miami 25.9%
3. Dwight Howard, Magic 7.4%
Kobe Bryant, Lakers 7.4%
5. Dwyane Wade, Miami 3.7%

2011
T1. Kevin Durant, Oklahoma City 37.0%
T1. LeBron James, Miami 37.0%

3. Derrick Rose, Chicago 14.8%
4. Dwight Howard, Orlando -- 7.4%
5. Dwyane Wade, Miami -- 3.7%


since Kobe entered the league:

MVP
Quote:
LeBron 3
Duncan 2
Malone 2
Nash 2
Jordan 1
Shaq 1
Iverson 1
KG 1
Dirk 1
Rose 1
Kobe 1

FMVP
Quote:
Duncan 3
Shaq 3
Jordan 2
Kobe 2

Titles as the best player
Quote:
Duncan 4
Shaq 3
Jordan 2
Kobe 2

Last edited by Anaximandro1 : 08-27-2012 at 10:31 PM.
Anaximandro1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 09:20 PM   #172
RaininTwos
Betrayed
 
RaininTwos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,238
Default Re: If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by riseagainst
what have they been flip flopping?

anyway so what ur saying is: if Bill Russell, Michael Jordan, Magic, and Bird came back from retirement RIGHT NOW and played on a team as starters with, let's say Blake Griffin (and let's assume he already has 5 rings with 2 fmvps prior to this). Your logic is saying if that team doesn't win then Blake Griffin will NEVER EVER be considered a top 10 player?

That's actually the furthest away from what I said. Congrats on conjuring an idiotic post based on fantasy.
RaininTwos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 09:29 PM   #173
RaininTwos
Betrayed
 
RaininTwos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,238
Default Re: If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGunzJustSkillz
What the fck is This geek talking about? When Lebron teamed up with bosh and wade, the argument was Lebron betTer win a championship since all three of these guys are in their primes. I didn't engage in them arguments, but they did exist. Nobody is saying Kobe, Dwight and Nash should win it cause they're all in their prime. They are saying they should win because they are super talented.

Why are you so defensive, you shouldn't take this so personal. I'm not the one uploading pics of me in a mirror and posting it on a predominantly male forum, now that would truly be geek material. I think what you are trying to say is that I am an intelligent guy who's destined for success and I thank you. Those are very kind words. I appreciate it bro.

I never said that their situations were the exact same. My point is that all of the players on this Laker "Big Four" are all extremely effective and each of them are top ten at their respective positions. The reason why people were expecting Lebron and Co. to win immediately was because they were three great players coming together. They are an extremely top heavy team. That's why people expected them to win.

Don't cling to this whole "in prime" argument like Kobe/Nash/Gasol/Howard aren't extremely effective and skilled players. They have 4 of the top 25-30 players in the league on their team. That's just as top heavy as the Heat and they all are extremely experienced and savvy.

I don't agree with the OP but I can see hypocrisy from a mile away. When big names who are still effective come together, expectations are going to be placed on them. Just like the 04 Laker team.
RaininTwos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 09:49 PM   #174
NoGunzJustSkillz
2015
 
NoGunzJustSkillz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,787
Default Re: If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininTwos
Why are you so defensive, you shouldn't take this so personal. I'm not the one uploading pics of me in a mirror and posting it on a predominantly male forum, now that would truly be geek material. I think what you are trying to say is that I am an intelligent guy who's destined for success and I thank you. Those are very kind words. I appreciate it bro.
I posted that pic 4 or 5 years ago, pretty cool the image is planted in your skull. As far as expectations go, sure if you wanna crown the Lakers, crown their fcking asses, I have no problem with it.
NoGunzJustSkillz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 09:56 PM   #175
eliteballer
NBA lottery pick
 
eliteballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,946
Default Re: If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

When are you people going to accept it's Kobe's destiny to be the GOAT
eliteballer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 09:57 PM   #176
Dictator
Insidehoops Mafia
 
Dictator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,810
Default Re: If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininTwos
Why are you so defensive, you shouldn't take this so personal. I'm not the one uploading pics of me in a mirror and posting it on a predominantly male forum, now that would truly be geek material. I think what you are trying to say is that I am an intelligent guy who's destined for success and I thank you. Those are very kind words. I appreciate it bro.

I never said that their situations were the exact same. My point is that all of the players on this Laker "Big Four" are all extremely effective and each of them are top ten at their respective positions. The reason why people were expecting Lebron and Co. to win immediately was because they were three great players coming together. They are an extremely top heavy team. That's why people expected them to win.

Don't cling to this whole "in prime" argument like Kobe/Nash/Gasol/Howard aren't extremely effective and skilled players. They have 4 of the top 25-30 players in the league on their team. That's just as top heavy as the Heat and they all are extremely experienced and savvy.

I don't agree with the OP but I can see hypocrisy from a mile away. When big names who are still effective come together, expectations are going to be placed on them. Just like the 04 Laker team.

The argument is completely different.

Which is worst:

Losing in your prime while going to another team with 2 other superstars with no titles or FMVPS yet.......


or

Losing at the back end of your career with a great squad although you already have 5 titles, and 2 fmvp?
Dictator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 09:59 PM   #177
RaininTwos
Betrayed
 
RaininTwos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,238
Default Re: If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoGunzJustSkillz
I posted that pic 4 or 5 years ago, pretty cool the image is planted in your skull. As far as expectations go, sure if you wanna crown the Lakers, crown their fcking asses, I have no problem with it.
Complete shot in the dark, but thanks for confirming. Stop taking this so personal?
RaininTwos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 10:00 PM   #178
RaininTwos
Betrayed
 
RaininTwos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,238
Default Re: If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dictator
The argument is completely different.

Which is worst:

Losing in your prime while going to another team with 2 other superstars with no titles or FMVPS yet.......


or

Losing at the back end of your career with a great squad although you already have 5 titles, and 2 fmvp?

That wasn't even the question. The first one is worse, we all know that but this was clearly about expectations, not the results.
RaininTwos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 10:04 PM   #179
NoGunzJustSkillz
2015
 
NoGunzJustSkillz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 13,787
Default Re: If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaininTwos
Complete shot in the dark, but thanks for confirming. Stop taking this so personal?
sure thing buddy.
NoGunzJustSkillz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-27-2012, 10:06 PM   #180
RaininTwos
Betrayed
 
RaininTwos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 5,238
Default Re: If Kobe Can't Win It All in 2013 Then He Should NOT Be Top 10

ah....i've wasted enough time talking at you for one day.

time to listen to madonna!
RaininTwos is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:36 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy