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Old 08-26-2012, 03:15 PM   #1
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Default Kareem before Magic after O

This should be a good debate.

Was Kareem even a franchise player before Magic? Since Wilt left the league was there a franchise player in that period before 80?

If you went by consistently winning and big time players in those winning years, you would have no real standouts but only a select few that made return trips to conference finals during that time:

Cowens for work in '74 thru '76 Two championships and conference finals. I think he's the only one who subscribes to the franchise player title.

Rick Barry for his work in '75 and '76. This is the most impressive because he didn't really have good teammates. Rookie Jamal Wilkes was his second best teammate when he won it all and averaged less than half the amount of points as Barry.

After that you can make soft claims for Gus Williams/Dennis Johnson (good for booting Kareem out a couple of years), Elvin Hayes and Dr J. Well I give Dr J a nod because of entertainment value, solid play and his team contending.

Kareem wasn't getting his teams deep in the playoffs despite there not being other good franchises around.

If he wasn't a franchise player in his prime and most productive years when it was a dearth of talent does it affect his GOAT rating? Of course you have to first argue that he wasn't a franchise player.

Last edited by Pointguard : 08-27-2012 at 01:30 PM. Reason: Title corrected
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: Kareem before Magic.

I don't think that argument passes the laugh test.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:22 PM   #3
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Default Re: Kareem before Magic.



I hate KAJ on a personal level but........this is a fking stupid thread written by another kid who didn't see him play.
He was without any freaking question a franchise player.....THE Franchise player of his time.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:25 PM   #4
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Default Re: Kareem before Magic.

Thanks for the laugh OP. This thread isn't meant to be serious, right?
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:25 PM   #5
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Default Re: Kareem before Magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
I hate KAJ on a personal level
Why?


And to the OP, if Derrick Rose, Dwight Howard, and Chris Paul are franchise players, there shouldn't be a damn question that Kareem was as well.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:39 PM   #6
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Default Re: Kareem before Magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker


I hate KAJ on a personal level but........this is a fking stupid thread written by another kid who didn't see him play.
He was without any freaking question a franchise player.....THE Franchise player of his time.

So when in his prime he was the man you could turn to get you at least into the conference finals. Yes or no, question?

Has the meaning of franchise player changed? You got a meaning because what Rick Barry did in that time period was much more impressive than what Kareem did. Barry could win with a rookie Jamal Wilkes as his second best player and Kareem couldn't do it with Jamal Wilkes four years later with Norm Nixon and Adrian Dantley.

What is your counter argument? Were the Lakers a contender that whole time? Did I miss something? Somebody like Lebron is a franchise because he can have you contending every year. Conference finals back then was win games in the playoffs. Not a whole lot.

IGOTGAME and ThunderStruk do you have an argument. Do you think Kareem got a franchise contract from the Laker organization or did I miss that too? Speak up.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:39 PM   #7
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Default Re: Kareem before Magic.

He was a franchise player, he just couldn't win with exception to that 1971 season.

For me, that's the reason why I don't put him over Jordan. 1 ring, 1 Finals MVP during an era where he won 5 MVPs.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:41 PM   #8
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Default Re: Kareem before Magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AK47DR91
He was a franchise player, he just couldn't win with exception to that 1971 season.

For me, that's the reason why I don't put him over Jordan. 1 ring, 1 Finals MVP during an era where he won 5 MVPs.
A large reason why he won 5 MVPs was because of the ABA/NBA competition.

If the ABA/NBA had merged earlier and in the start of the 70s opposed to 76, Julius Erving and other ABA superstars at the time would have more than likely taken a few of Kareem's MVPs.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:43 PM   #9
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Default Re: Kareem before Magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker
I hate KAJ on a personal level
why man?
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:46 PM   #10
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Default Re: Kareem before Magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
Why?

And to the OP, if Derrick Rose, Dwight Howard, and Chris Paul are franchise players, there shouldn't be a damn question that Kareem was as well.
Derrick Rose and DH won games in the conference finals and would likely be repeat guys there. Kareem didn't win a game in the conference finals from '75 to Magic's arrival. That means he didn't win seven games in the playoffs when there were no real standout players. Rick Barry won it all without much help in that time period.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:46 PM   #11
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Default Re: Kareem before Magic.

Quote:
Was Kareem even a franchise player before Magic?



A 35/18, 66 win season leading, 5 time MVP who won a ring and made another finals.....and you are asking if he was a franchise player?

Really?

This is looking like a topic I need to either delete or stay out of. I cant read this garbage and ignore it. Im gonna go with staying out for the moment......
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:46 PM   #12
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Default Re: Kareem before Magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pointguard
So when in his prime he was the man you could turn to get you at least into the conference finals. Yes or no, question?

Has the meaning of franchise player changed? You got a meaning because what Rick Barry did in that time period was much more impressive than what Kareem did. Barry could win with a rookie Jamal Wilkes as his second best player and Kareem couldn't do it with Jamal Wilkes four years later with Norm Nixon and Adrian Dantley.

What is your counter argument? Were the Lakers a contender that whole time? Did I miss something? Somebody like Lebron is a franchise because he can have you contending every year. Conference finals back then was win games in the playoffs. Not a whole lot.

IGOTGAME and ThunderStruk do you have an argument. Do you think Kareem got a franchise contract from the Laker organization or did I miss that too? Speak up.
I can't respond to nonsense. Seriously, that is a nonsense definition of franchise player.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: Kareem before Magic.

Kareem is a scum bag piece of shit.

He was no doubt a franchise player..

First class basketball player and first class d-bag.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:53 PM   #14
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Default Re: Kareem before Magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StateOfMind12
A large reason why he won 5 MVPs was because of the ABA/NBA competition.

If the ABA/NBA had merged earlier and in the start of the 70s opposed to 76, Julius Erving and other ABA superstars at the time would have more than likely taken a few of Kareem's MVPs.
No. Kareem was the best player in the world. Not just the NBA. Also he should have won more.
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Old 08-26-2012, 03:56 PM   #15
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Default Re: Kareem before Magic.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DKLaker


I hate KAJ on a personal level but........this is a fking stupid thread written by another kid who didn't see him play.
He was without any freaking question a franchise player.....THE Franchise player of his time.

LOL, I did see him play and you have to be a kid to present yourself like this. Since you think you are adult enough to talk to a man, tell me why the league was such trouble before Bird and Magic? Would you start a franchise in a crumbling market? Was Kareem the man bringing value to the market? There was certainly a market crisis and why did Magic get the franchise handed to him on a platter after Kareem had 7 years there? Hmmmm, Speak up.
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