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Old 08-31-2012, 12:01 AM   #46
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Default Re: How where you taught to shoot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
Good form but you seem to raise up to shoot almost before even jumping which means you are using your legs/jump leverage to catapult the shot, a so called "push shot" rather than a "jump shot", this is a common thing amongst those who have not strength enough to shoot longrange shots comfortably.... or maybe its just a habit for you by now or maybe it looks like that because you simply dont like more elevation.

It should look like this:



Which means, jump before your form is set above, swing your arms up just as you jump, not before... this uses your arms for extra elevation, this gives you a better elevation because you are now using your arms to catapult yourself up instead of only your legs.... and then when you are upstairs you should start shooting the ball at the highest point, release should happen just as you are starting to come down.... now you are only using your arms and armstrength to shoot... and the jump is only for the elevation and should only be used for the elevation like that... not to push the shot...

You see, this is not just a "textbook jumpshot"... this will increase your accuracy to your maximum potential...

Many kids i sometimes coach i get furious at for doing "push shots", they want to immediately start shooting ranged shots, dont have the strength and so have to shoot it like that, i tell them to get under the basket and shoot as i tell them and slowly increase the distance, once your form/jumpshot changes even microscopically then that is your maximum range to you shooting a textbook jumpshot comfortably........

The secret to becoming a pure shooter is to always shoot it the same your entire life, even if its not a textbook looking jumpshot & form (watch Larry Bird).... BUT if you start of with the textbook form & jumpshot and keep it that way you will guaranteed become the best shooter you could possibly ever be.... Thats why i strongly advise the younglings to stick to this form and be patient with the distance they can shoot it from, it comes naturally as you get bigger & stronger... Shooting is kindof scientific that way...

If you want to model/patern a jumpshot from somebody then you should ONLY watch Ray Allen.... dont care about who your favorite player is.

PS: This is more like a message to others, not only you Rake, i just want to help you become the best you could ever become in the shooting department. But i think you have come to a certain age shooting a certain way and should then NOT change anything, that could mess up your accuracy (The elevation technique you have now is not so bad anyways)... then you will have to kindof start from the beginning, not the entire beginning but anyways...

Wow. Pauk is dropping knowledge. Good sh*t.
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Old 08-31-2012, 12:37 AM   #47
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Default Re: How where you taught to shoot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenMaster
Your strength comes from your legs, elbow and wrist. Your legs and lower body should be moving forwad when you shoot, don't bend your knees too much, also your feet should come rather close when shooting as it gives you balance along with your off-hand.
Can I ask for verification as to what you mean by "your feet should come rather close"? Do you mean one's shooting stance should have feet close together? Because that's the antithesis of what I teach my players. I usually have one player stand with his feet touching each other, and I give him a small push, making him have to lift his feet to re-balance. Then I have him widen his stance and give him another nudge, at which point he doesn't move an inch. That's how I illustrate the importance of a wider stance to my kids, as it all but ensures balance on any given shot.

I feel like I'm just misinterpreting what you're trying to say there.

Last edited by Rake2204 : 08-31-2012 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:08 AM   #48
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Default Re: How where you taught to shoot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
Can I ask for verification as to what you mean by "your feet should come rather close"? Do you mean one's shooting stance should have feet close together? Because that's the antithesis of what I teach my players. I usually have one player stand with his feet touching each other, and I give him a small push, making him have to lift his feet to re-balance. Then I have him widen his stance and give him another nudge, at which point he doesn't move an inch. That's how I illustrate the importance of a wider stance to my kids, as it all but ensures balance on any given shot.

I feel like I'm just misinterpreting what you're trying to say there.

You can start with your feet shoulder with apart, you will have to when shooting from a tripple threat position, but as you elevate your feet should move a bit towards each other, it increases balance in air. Another thing concerning having your feet wide apart is that it increases strain on the inside of your knees.
I know "the book" says having your feet wide apart and facing the basket, but most great shooters have their feet rather close and facing a bit to the side:



http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images...jpg?1299292444


http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...Iq1lB_B25w&t=1
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:19 AM   #49
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Default Re: How where you taught to shoot?

I used to shoot like Shawn Marion... but after some practices, I shoot like DIRK now
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:28 AM   #50
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Default Re: How where you taught to shoot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pauk
Good form but you seem to raise up to shoot almost before even jumping which means you are using your legs/jump leverage to catapult the shot, a so called "push shot" rather than a "jump shot", this is a common thing amongst those who have not strength enough to shoot longrange shots comfortably.... or maybe its just a habit for you by now or maybe it looks like that because you simply dont like more elevation.

Which means, jump before your form is set above, swing your arms up just as you jump, not before... this uses your arms for extra elevation, this gives you a better elevation because you are now using your arms to catapult yourself up instead of only your legs.... and then when you are upstairs you should start shooting the ball at the highest point, release should happen just as you are starting to come down.... now you are only using your arms and armstrength to shoot... and the jump is only for the elevation and should only be used for the elevation like that... not to push the shot...

You see, this is not just a "textbook jumpshot"... this will increase your accuracy to your maximum potential...

Many kids i sometimes coach i get furious at for doing "push shots", they want to immediately start shooting ranged shots, dont have the strength and so have to shoot it like that, i tell them to get under the basket and shoot as i tell them and slowly increase the distance, once your form/jumpshot changes even microscopically then that is your maximum range to you shooting a textbook jumpshot comfortably........

The secret to becoming a pure shooter is to always shoot it the same your entire life, even if its not a textbook looking jumpshot & form (watch Larry Bird).... BUT if you start of with the textbook form & jumpshot and keep it that way you will guaranteed become the best shooter you could possibly ever be.... Thats why i strongly advise the younglings to stick to this form and be patient with the distance they can shoot it from, it comes naturally as you get bigger & stronger... Shooting is kindof scientific that way...

If you want to model/patern a jumpshot from somebody then you should ONLY watch Ray Allen.... dont care about who your favorite player is.

PS: This is more like a message to others, not only you Rake, i just want to help you become the best you could ever become in the shooting department. But i think you have come to a certain age shooting a certain way and should then NOT change anything, that could mess up your accuracy (The elevation technique you have now is not so bad anyways)... then you will have to kindof start from the beginning, not the entire beginning but anyways...
After reading G-Train's couple of posts on the last page, he convinced me to take a closer look at what you're saying and I'm not sure I'm in agreement with everything you mention. If nothing else, a few things may be unclear.

For starters, I initially thought you were saying I was not deriving very much energy from my legs on my shot, to which I would have agreed. However, upon re-reading, you say:
Quote:
you are using your legs/jump leverage to catapult the shot, a so called "push shot" rather than a "jump shot."
It now feels as if you're saying a jump shot should not use one's legs or jump to assist in the power of a shot. To that, I'd disagree.

In fact, again, that's something very important I teach my players each year (that shot power will primarily come from the legs when one's range extends, not the arms). In my experience, it is the players who are stuck on shooting with all arms who most frequently experience great struggles in achieving an effective jump shot. Using legs obviously doesn't always cure every jumpshot, but it surely goes a long way in eliminating the "heave" theatrics I tend to see when players first enter my program.

I also may disagree with the point at which a player should release a shot. You said:
Quote:
release should happen just as you are starting to come down
I've personally never instructed a player to release the ball as they're coming down from their jump. The idea seems to go against all logic and physics in terms of shooting an effective and easy jumpshot. Perhaps you are saying the player will more or less fall to the ground after the shot is in the air?

Quote:
now you are only using your arms and armstrength to shoot... and the jump is only for the elevation and should only be used for the elevation like that... not to push the shot...
To reiterate, I do not agree with these lines of shooting strategy. It is once again of my opinion that the "jump" part of a jumpshot is not just to elude an attacking defense. Rather, it can also very much help in providing the power behind one's shot.

Quote:
If you want to model/patern a jumpshot from somebody then you should ONLY watch Ray Allen.... dont care about who your favorite player is.
I think I'm beginning to understand where you're coming from as I read through more of your post. You insist Ray Allen is the only player anyone should ever look to for emulating a jumpshot, more or less anointing him the Messiah of jumpshooting, and for good reason - he's an incredible shooter. However, there's been a lot of incredible shooters who came before Ray Allen and there'll be just as many who come after, and they will not follow the same patterns as Ray Allen. Therefore, I must largely disagree that players should only follow Allen's stroke. It's awesome and it works for him, but it's not the word of god and I do not envision it being effective for each of my players, most of whom will not grow up to be 6'5'' NBA prospects with 35'' verticals.

For instance, I'm not sure I could, in good faith, ever teach my players to shoot their free throws while using absolutely no legs (not even a little) as Allen has made a career of doing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3d_pOYFRVc. I believe there are many "correct" ways of teaching a person to shoot, so to suggest Ray Allen's form is the only way is way off the mark to me.

On the flip side, I've realized Steve Nash shoots free throws exactly how I do and that's essentially the form I teach my players (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf0lAO21AZk), not so much because it's my form, but because I view it to be traditionally very effective. And contrary to what you maintain, I feel it is quite clear that Steve Nash uses his legs within the flow of his shot, both to power said shot and to create a natural one-process flow. In this next clip, it can once again be illustrated how a jump shot can be extremely standard and effective when a player utilizes their entire body in concert and releases the ball before they begin their downward descent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v_BN4XdR4Q. I feel this is a much more effective way of teaching young players to shoot than the slight freeze out at the top of the jump strategy that Allen has employed over the years (in combination with his stiff free throws). Again, it's obviously worked for Allen though, so there's no disputing that.

Lastly, I also disagree with:
Quote:
The secret to becoming a pure shooter is to always shoot it the same your entire life, even if its not a textbook looking jumpshot
I believe everyone can and should alter their form if they feel it can lead to better overall success. For instance, I have a brother entering 9th grade who more or less pointed his feet 90 degrees away from the basket when he shot (a common problem). As a result, his body would always have to torque to correct the lack of a proper square up and even the simplest open jump shot turned into meticulous calculations on his part (did I compensate well enough for my crooked feet? Is my elbow angled correctly?)

To allow my boy to go through life with such a jumper would be an absolute travesty. Surely, he's comfortable with shooting like that, and he's experienced some success with it, but it won't last in the long run. As such, we've put in a serious amount of work re-tooling his jumper to at least get his elbow in and feet properly squared. And it was a struggle at first, because the proper squaring of his feet was so foreign, but it was a proverbial one-step-back, two-steps-forward situation. His new jumper is much, much more reliable and allows for quicker and more accurate shots. His situation and outcome is one of millions.

In summation, I respect most of your shot coaching techniques, but I do not find them to be as definitive as you insinuated them to be. In fact, I found many tips of yours to be in direct contrast to much of the basketball teachings I've been fortunate enough to garner throughout my life.

Last edited by Rake2204 : 08-31-2012 at 02:07 AM.
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:30 AM   #51
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Default Re: How where you taught to shoot?

No one taught me to shoot.. I just learned it by instinct..
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:40 AM   #52
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Default Re: How where you taught to shoot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenMaster
You can start with your feet shoulder with apart, you will have to when shooting from a tripple threat position, but as you elevate your feet should move a bit towards each other, it increases balance in air. Another thing concerning having your feet wide apart is that it increases strain on the inside of your knees.
I know "the book" says having your feet wide apart and facing the basket, but most great shooters have their feet rather close and facing a bit to the side:
I feel a person's legs are naturally going to come a little closer together once they leave they ground, because close together is their scientific status quo. I don't believe it is a conscious thing players do once they're airborne. It's like if I hold my arms upward like I'm a plane flying through their air, then let my arms go loose, they'll fall back down by my sides, where they naturally belong.

I'd also warn against using still photos for shooting analysis and advice, as there's no accounting for what type of shots were being taken, how the flow of that particular shot affected their feet, whether a player had an opportunity to properly square himself, whether he's off-balance, whether he was square, but leaned as he shot (or fell away), or whether what appears to be bent feet are actually just dangling loosely in the air.

As I did in my previous post, I'll once again reference this Steve Nash video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v_BN4XdR4Q. Every shot features his feet precisely square to the basket. The idea is to make a jump shot as simple on oneself as possible. It doesn't get much simpler than, "Point directly toward target (feet square), fire straight ahead (elbow in, follow through)." Any slightly crooked squaring or elbow bending is just making things unnecessarily difficult.

But through it all, if you're just talking about what the feet do when they're airborne, I think it's relatively inconsequential. As long as my players aren't going out of their way to voluntarily kick their legs all about on a routine spot up jumper, it's really not a factor one way or another. I could essentially be doing the splits but when I jump, but those legs will naturally be flopping back inward, perhaps crooking in the wind along the way.

Last edited by Rake2204 : 08-31-2012 at 01:49 AM.
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Old 08-31-2012, 01:56 AM   #53
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Default Re: How where you taught to shoot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
I feel a person's legs are naturally going to come a little closer together once they leave they ground, because close together is their scientific status quo. I don't believe it is a conscious thing players do once they're airborne. It's like if I hold my arms upward like I'm a plane flying through their air, then let my arms go loose, they'll fall back down by my sides, where they naturally belong.

I'd also warn against using still photos for shooting analysis and advice, as there's no accounting for what type of shots were being taken, how the flow of that particular shot affected their feet, whether a player had an opportunity to properly square himself, whether he's off-balance, whether he was square, but leaned as he shot (or fell away), or whether what appears to be bent feet are actually just dangling loosely in the air.

As I did in my previous post, I'll once again reference this Steve Nash video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v_BN4XdR4Q. Every shot features his feet precisely square to the basket. The idea is to make a jump shot as simple on oneself as possible. It doesn't get much simpler than, "Point directly toward target (feet square), fire straight ahead (elbow in, follow through)." Any slightly crooked squaring or elbow bending is just making things unnecessarily difficult.

But through it all, if you're just talking about what the feet do when they're airborne, I think it's relatively inconsequential. As long as my players aren't going out of their way to voluntarily kick their legs all about on a routine spot up jumper, it's really not a factor one way or another. I could essentially be doing the splits but when I jump, but those legs will naturally be flopping back inward, perhaps crooking in the wind along the way.

From watching this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RmkzNqATS0

I think it's pretty clear Steve Nash points his a bit to the left, the shot at 13.38 has a great angle for it.
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Old 08-31-2012, 02:21 AM   #54
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Default Re: How where you taught to shoot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenMaster
From watching this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RmkzNqATS0

I think it's pretty clear Steve Nash points his a bit to the left, the shot at 13.38 has a great angle for it.
I'll concede there are times when a players squares up, where the right foot may want to sneak itself back inward, but it's not something players look to make happen on purpose. Due to my wide stance, I experience this on a regular basis. However, it's most certainly not a matter of me squaring up slightly in a different direction, nor is it with Nash on the few times he does it.

To put it succinctly, the first foot to plant (left) will almost always be pointed exactly at its target while the right foot may accidentally drift from time to time. I feel comfortable in assuming Steve Nash doesn't watch tape and say, "You know what, I need to point my right foot in the wrong direction a little more." It'll happen from time to time, particularly during an endurance shooting drill where many of the beginning shots are taken at half effort. However, when it comes down to it, I believe this is what he's looking to do in terms of squaring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TTH_5aynyw

Also, in terms of the wide stance, shoulder width is usually just about right. What I want to create for my players is a situation where they'll be able to set their feet for a jump shot and know for a fact they'll be balanced due to their shoulder width base. Basically, what we're looking to avoid is the two feet squared up nearly touching one another. Of course, there's always folks who can make it work. But when it comes down to teaching things the right way, I feel the shoulder width stance is correct. It's similar to those times when a student can figure out a complicated math problem through unique means that classmates cannot follow. It's good for them, but it's not what I can teach.

Last edited by Rake2204 : 08-31-2012 at 02:28 AM.
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:24 AM   #55
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Default Re: How where you taught to shoot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
I'll concede there are times when a players squares up, where the right foot may want to sneak itself back inward, but it's not something players look to make happen on purpose. Due to my wide stance, I experience this on a regular basis. However, it's most certainly not a matter of me squaring up slightly in a different direction, nor is it with Nash on the few times he does it.

To put it succinctly, the first foot to plant (left) will almost always be pointed exactly at its target while the right foot may accidentally drift from time to time. I feel comfortable in assuming Steve Nash doesn't watch tape and say, "You know what, I need to point my right foot in the wrong direction a little more." It'll happen from time to time, particularly during an endurance shooting drill where many of the beginning shots are taken at half effort. However, when it comes down to it, I believe this is what he's looking to do in terms of squaring: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TTH_5aynyw

Also, in terms of the wide stance, shoulder width is usually just about right. What I want to create for my players is a situation where they'll be able to set their feet for a jump shot and know for a fact they'll be balanced due to their shoulder width base. Basically, what we're looking to avoid is the two feet squared up nearly touching one another. Of course, there's always folks who can make it work. But when it comes down to teaching things the right way, I feel the shoulder width stance is correct. It's similar to those times when a student can figure out a complicated math problem through unique means that classmates cannot follow. It's good for them, but it's not what I can teach.

We kind of have to agree to disagree. I think having your feet point slightly to the side and squaring up your hips is a good way to shoot and I think it's something to think about as it helps keep the shoulders and neck relaxed while also helping your aim through the right eye for right handed shooters.

In all aiming sports, rifle, bow and darts contestants have their feet pointing away from the target and it helps them shoot straight, to me basketball is no different.
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Old 08-31-2012, 03:32 AM   #56
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Default Re: How where you taught to shoot?

by watching S.Marion shoot
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Old 08-31-2012, 05:11 AM   #57
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Default Re: How where you taught to shoot?

Did you guys notice how lefthanded players shoot different . Barcelona has 3 lefthanded players and they all have the similar release , Manu also has very similar release as them .
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Old 08-31-2012, 06:40 AM   #58
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Default Re: How where you taught to shoot?

Pauk, I always wanted to shoot like nba players right.. The whole jump and shoot from above the head. But I learned to shoot more from the chest, and I shot from the chest right up until 9th grade. This gave me UNLIMITED range and I was fairly accurate. The only issue is that I struggled with corner shots because it was more from the right shoulder I shot from obv as I'm right handed.. And it was easier for me to be blocked. But I just really enjoyed having the range, like halfcourt jumpshots, and it was natural for me to shoot that way as I always felt awkward when I shot above my head.

So in 9th grade I stopped playing ball and came back to it just recently. I went from like 5'5 to 6'0 or something like that, I don't remember just how tall I was. But anyways, now its completely natural for me to shoot with the over head release. BUT I MISS THAT RANGE SO MUCH. I can shoot straight 3 with little issue, but then one step behind and its impossible to hit the rim. But sometimes my 3s are short too, I can only really shoot effortlessly from 18 ft and in.

Is this about strength? Is this about form? What can I do?
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Old 08-31-2012, 06:49 AM   #59
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Default Re: How where you taught to shoot?

My coach did at first, but it was terrible.
Then I put my faith in Geschwindner's calculations and copied Dirk's shot. Very quickly became a more than respectable jump shooter thanks to that.
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Old 08-31-2012, 07:30 AM   #60
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Default Re: How where you taught to shoot?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rake2204
I think I'm beginning to understand where you're coming from as I read through more of your post. You insist Ray Allen is the only player anyone should ever look to for emulating a jumpshot, more or less anointing him the Messiah of jumpshooting, and for good reason - he's an incredible shooter. However, there's been a lot of incredible shooters who came before Ray Allen and there'll be just as many who come after, and they will not follow the same patterns as Ray Allen. Therefore, I must largely disagree that players should only follow Allen's stroke. It's awesome and it works for him, but it's not the word of god and I do not envision it being effective for each of my players, most of whom will not grow up to be 6'5'' NBA prospects with 35'' verticals.

For instance, I'm not sure I could, in good faith, ever teach my players to shoot their free throws while using absolutely no legs (not even a little) as Allen has made a career of doing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i3d_pOYFRVc. I believe there are many "correct" ways of teaching a person to shoot, so to suggest Ray Allen's form is the only way is way off the mark to me.

On the flip side, I've realized Steve Nash shoots free throws exactly how I do and that's essentially the form I teach my players (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pf0lAO21AZk), not so much because it's my form, but because I view it to be traditionally very effective. And contrary to what you maintain, I feel it is quite clear that Steve Nash uses his legs within the flow of his shot, both to power said shot and to create a natural one-process flow. In this next clip, it can once again be illustrated how a jump shot can be extremely standard and effective when a player utilizes their entire body in concert and releases the ball before they begin their downward descent: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v_BN4XdR4Q. I feel this is a much more effective way of teaching young players to shoot than the slight freeze out at the top of the jump strategy that Allen has employed over the years (in combination with his stiff free throws). Again, it's obviously worked for Allen though, so there's no disputing that.

Lastly, I also disagree with:I believe everyone can and should alter their form if they feel it can lead to better overall success. For instance, I have a brother entering 9th grade who more or less pointed his feet 90 degrees away from the basket when he shot (a common problem). As a result, his body would always have to torque to correct the lack of a proper square up and even the simplest open jump shot turned into meticulous calculations on his part (did I compensate well enough for my crooked feet? Is my elbow angled correctly?)

To allow my boy to go through life with such a jumper would be an absolute travesty. Surely, he's comfortable with shooting like that, and he's experienced some success with it, but it won't last in the long run. As such, we've put in a serious amount of work re-tooling his jumper to at least get his elbow in and feet properly squared. And it was a struggle at first, because the proper squaring of his feet was so foreign, but it was a proverbial one-step-back, two-steps-forward situation. His new jumper is much, much more reliable and allows for quicker and more accurate shots. His situation and outcome is one of millions.

In summation, I respect most of your shot coaching techniques, but I do not find them to be as definitive as you insinuated them to be. In fact, I found many tips of yours to be in direct contrast to much of the basketball teachings I've been fortunate enough to garner throughout my life.

very much agree with this. while allen is obviously an all-time great shooter, my HS coach (who was a shooting coach for a D1 team at one point) insisted that he preferred steph curry's shot over allen's. this was when curry was coming out of college, mind you. he said allen had a slight 'swing' across his body as he brought the ball up. again, this is not to say that allen isn't a great example...more a minor criticism and another voice that says you should not just use one player to learn from.

i definitely shot more like nash than i did like allen, simply because i didn't have the vertical. i think allen is able to set his arm motion up because he has time to square up due to his vertical. my motion was fluid and i feel like i released at the apex of my jump, but i certainly didn't focus on jumping really high and perfectly timing my release. like i said, i just didn't have the vertical for that. i would have to really focus on my jumping and i felt that took away form my actual shooting form. i'm sure if you took still frames of my shot back then, it would be far from textbook but i think i had the basic fundamentals and consistency down.

again, nothing against allen. he's damn near textbook and it works for him because of his physical tools i mean, even now, his calves are like balloons! the most dangerous part of allen's shooting to me is his quick release. even when he does jump high, he gathers and leaps so quickly that the defense better be ready to close out quick or you're done.

i think you obviously want to hone the fundamental techniques, but it's also important to tweak it a bit for the individual player imo. consistency and confidence is key. the more your shot looks the same every time you go up, the more consistency you'll find.

as far as how i learned...i'll keep it short. 4th grade youth coach. he told us to line up with the lacing, keep a small distance between your shooting palm and the ball. i don't really know how to discuss placement without a diagram but i'm sure you know what i mean. remove your off hand mid way through your shooting motion, just before you flick your wrist and follow through. that's the basics anyway.

i ended up being a good set shooter. by myself, i could shoot near 90% on good days. i used to hoist up 200 or more FT's per day, to the point i sprained my patellar tendon. i eventually won a second place tourney in my county for FT shooting in 6th grade. pretty sure i shot around 84% in that tourney (21/25). i went into sudden death with the other guy after 20 shots since we were tied at 17 or 18 or something. i kinda choked and hit 3/5 while he hit 4/5. one shot made the difference between this giant ass three foot, double tower trophy and this three inch trophy i got. i was seriously like wtf man, lol. my trophy looked like a consolation 5th prize compared to that thing. this was hosted by boys & girls club and i have no idea if they still run it.

anyway, this was all enjoyable to read. kudos to you and some of the other guys for discussing some of the finer details and methodology. yes, that includes you, pauk. good to know you have some nice knowledge behind this and you aren't always a total blowhard. i can't really go back and quote all posts because i stumbled across this way too late.

also, maybe you could explain this...but what do you think happened to guys like marion? did he just skate by on talent and play on AAU teams where nobody coached him up? i mean, his shooting form worked for him but i can only imagine how much better of a shooter he would have been if he had a good shooting coach at least in the latter stages of HS to drill him.

Last edited by blacknapalm : 08-31-2012 at 07:52 AM.
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