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Old 05-02-2013, 10:55 AM   #1636
alenleomessi
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Default Re: 2012/2013 UEFA Champions League Thread

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Old 05-02-2013, 11:17 AM   #1637
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Default Re: 2012/2013 UEFA Champions League Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wiggins
bilbao has been shit this year

it's tough for them to sustain a level like they had last season because of their basque-only policy coupled with bielsa being a horrible manager. he has wasted a year of llorente's career.
You are so clueless. Michu was a nobody before last season. No caps with the youth NTs, no big scoring numbers anywhere. Last season he scored 16 with Rayo Vallecano, one of the poorest (if not actually the poorest) clubs in the first division, which is quite a feat in itself, but nobody considered him more than an ok striker who suddenly had a great season, and that's exactly what he is.
Now regarding Bilbao, their performance this year has nothing to do with their basque-only policy (which was already in place, mind you, during their great last season) or with Bielsa being a horrible manager (which is a stupid statement in itself). In my opinion, it is mainly related to them selling Javi Martinez, and also to not playing Llorente for idiotic reasons (he wanted to leave and management wanted to keep him, so he was kept on the bench as a punishment and intimidation tactic to make him reconsider). Furthermore, some of their key players haven't performed to their level this season(Muniain, Ander Herrera, Amorebieta).
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:26 AM   #1638
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Default Re: 2012/2013 UEFA Champions League Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Young
The most beloved Rayo Vallecano player ever is middling? GTFO know-nothing
I shouldn't be replying to your trolling, but I wouldn't want anyone to confuse your words with anything close to making sense. Michu spent a season in Rayo Vallecao and he's the most beloved player ever? I bet you didn't even know the team existed before last season. Great players (and certainly more relevant to any Rayo fan than ****ing Michu) have played for the team throughout the years, like De Felipe, Hugo Sanchez, Onopko, Polster, Radchenko or Onesimo, to name a few.

Last edited by Lebowsky : 05-02-2013 at 11:31 AM.
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:27 AM   #1639
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Default Re: 2012/2013 UEFA Champions League Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky
Now regarding Bilbao, their performance this year has nothing to do with their basque-only policy (which was already in place, mind you, during their great last season) or with Bielsa being a horrible manager (which is a stupid statement in itself). In my opinion, it is mainly related to them selling Javi Martinez
He wasn't sold, he left.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky
, and also to not playing Llorente for idiotic reasons (he wanted to leave and management wanted to keep him, so he was kept on the bench as a punishment and intimidation tactic to make him reconsider).
It's not about punishing him, but showing other players that they won't be sold for less money than their buyouts. A club based on youth program like ours must make that clear. While it's been a controversial decision here, with people for and against it, IMO they did the best for the team.
Llorente hasn't helped either, barely tries at practice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky
Furthermore, some of their key players haven't performed to their level this season(Muniain, Ander Herrera, Amorebieta).
Muniain and Herrera are tired after playing so many games last season, and then being at the Olympics. Herrera had surgery too.
As for Amorebieta... he's always been a player that needs focus, and that hasn't happened this season with him looking for a big contract (he'll get less money for a worse/similar team in England, why leave?).
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:29 AM   #1640
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Default Re: 2012/2013 UEFA Champions League Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky
I shouldn't be replying to your trolling, but I wouldn't want anyone to confuse your words with anything close to making sense. Michu spent a season in Rayo Vallecao and he's the most belived player ever? I bet you didn't even know the team existed before last season. Great players (and certainly more relevant to any Rayo fan than ****ing Michu) have played for the team throughout the years, like De Felipe, Hugo Sanchez, Onopko, Polster, Radchenko or Onesimo, to name a few.
The best GK in US soccer history played for them too
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Old 05-02-2013, 11:37 AM   #1641
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Default Re: 2012/2013 UEFA Champions League Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by chains5000
He wasn't sold, he left.

Yes, I forgot he paid the buyout clause, right? Anyway, the point still stands, he was arguably the most importante player on the squad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chains5000
It's not about punishing him, but showing other players that they won't be sold for less money than their buyouts. A club based on youth program like ours must make that clear. While it's been a controversial decision here, with people for and against it, IMO they did the best for the team.
Llorente hasn't helped either, barely tries at practice.

I get your point, but tell me, who was the winner in this situation? Absolutely nobody. Llorente lost a year of his prime, and the club took a huge hit in performance by benching him. I've always thought that pragmatism should prevail in these situations, if the player is determined to leave you can't keep him there. Therefore, why would you bench him? I understand what you said about setting a precedent for other players, but look at what expense: early elimination from european competition and mediocre performance in the domestic league, not to mention the locker room is against Bielsa for not standing up for the player (or so was reported when the issue was hot).
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:00 PM   #1642
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Default Re: 2012/2013 UEFA Champions League Thread

Michu the most beloved Rayo Vallecano ever?

Leo is definitely going to be better than him - and they haven't missed a beat. I'm not saying he wasn't good either - he was a great player in La Liga, it's merely that very few knew of him.

Same with all the dudes who go from La Liga to England and blow up, they don't just become great players overnight, it's more a matter of exposure.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:03 PM   #1643
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Default Re: 2012/2013 UEFA Champions League Thread

Herrera has showed glimpses. He's a crack talent IMO the same level as a guy like Thiago or even above, but it's just difficult without targets. The idiotic refs sending him off every other game does not help.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:12 PM   #1644
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Default Re: 2012/2013 UEFA Champions League Thread

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Originally Posted by Rubio2Gasol
Herrera has showed glimpses. He's a crack talent IMO the same level as a guy like Thiago or even above, but it's just difficult without targets. The idiotic refs sending him off every other game does not help.
He doesn't have nearly as much potential as Thiago does, believe me. I've been watching him weekend in and weekend out for years (used to live in Zaragoza). They are different kinds of players, but Thiago is way more skilled and resolutive. Herrera is a good playmaker at this point, with potential to become very good, but Thiago's celing is world class. However, although it's probably still early for both, I'm starting to believe neither will fulfill their respective potentials. I'd take Isco over both in a heartbeat.

EDIT: I love Herrera as a player and he's a genuinely good kid with a good head on his shoulders, but on the pitch he's too hot headed (gets a yellow almost every match) and is also quite the diver. He should really tone both things down.

Last edited by Lebowsky : 05-02-2013 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:35 PM   #1645
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Default Re: 2012/2013 UEFA Champions League Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky
You are so clueless. Michu was a nobody before last season. No caps with the youth NTs, no big scoring numbers anywhere. Last season he scored 16 with Rayo Vallecano, one of the poorest (if not actually the poorest) clubs in the first division, which is quite a feat in itself, but nobody considered him more than an ok striker who suddenly had a great season, and that's exactly what he is.
Now regarding Bilbao, their performance this year has nothing to do with their basque-only policy (which was already in place, mind you, during their great last season) or with Bielsa being a horrible manager (which is a stupid statement in itself). In my opinion, it is mainly related to them selling Javi Martinez, and also to not playing Llorente for idiotic reasons (he wanted to leave and management wanted to keep him, so he was kept on the bench as a punishment and intimidation tactic to make him reconsider). Furthermore, some of their key players haven't performed to their level this season(Muniain, Ander Herrera, Amorebieta).

just because he didn't put up big goal scoring numbers doesn't mean he wasn't a valuable player - he was being played out of further back on the pitch which took away from his strengths. players develop at different ages. you must be new to the concept of late bloomers.

holy shit, ander herrera hasn't performed to his level this season? don't ever call anyone clueless again.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:44 PM   #1646
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Default Re: 2012/2013 UEFA Champions League Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by chains5000
Ramalho isn't anything special IMO, and Muniain has sucked this season, he needs rest, he'll get some during summer, and a brain, which he'll never get.

As for selling Llorente, it's not that easy. That would have sent a message "It's ok, we'll sell any player for a price under their buyout clause, no problem!", which our team can't afford.
And think about this, who could we sign with the money? It's not like we got anybody with Javi Martínez's transfer. There are not that many good Basque players out there (or at least with decent contracts/buyouts)

it's incredible bilbao has managed to stay in the top division without ever being relegated. especially when you take into account how much smaller the pool of players they can bring to team is. that's a big testament to their development and coaching too.

speaking of basque players.... illarramendi is class
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:46 PM   #1647
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Default Re: 2012/2013 UEFA Champions League Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wiggins
just because he didn't put up big goal scoring numbers doesn't mean he wasn't a valuable player - he was being played out of further back on the pitch which took away from his strengths. players develop at different ages. you must be new to the concept of late bloomers.

Stop it, you're making yourself look like a fool. Michu has been playing striker ever since he joined Celta, pretty much his whole professional career. He played ok there, but he was very inconsistend and not close to being their best player.

Quote:
holy shit, ander herrera hasn't performed to his level this season? don't ever call anyone clueless again.

You must not have watched too many games of his this season, or you're just not familiar with what Herrera is capable of when he's playing well.
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Old 05-02-2013, 12:52 PM   #1648
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Default Re: 2012/2013 UEFA Champions League Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky
Stop it, you're making yourself look like a fool. Michu has been playing striker ever since he joined Celta, pretty much his whole professional career. He played ok there, but he was very inconsistend and not close to being their best player.


lolwut? are you kidding me? i watched him play with celta and michu never played striker....only in the midfield.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:23 PM   #1649
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Default Re: 2012/2013 UEFA Champions League Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Wiggins
lolwut? are you kidding me? i watched him play with celta and michu never played striker....only in the midfield.
Man I don't know what the hell you are watching. He was brought up as an OMF in Oviedo, and Celta signed him for their B team to play in a Gerrard/Lampard/Ballack role, which he did in his only season there. Then he was promoted to their A team, and he usually played striker or support striker. Anyway, it's an irrelevant discussion, and the point still stands: he was an ok player for a middle-of-the-pack 2nd. division team until Rayo signed him and had a very good season in the 1st. division (10th in goals scored). Now he's the 5th best scorer in the EPL, and he even led the table at some point if my memory serves me right. And it's not like he's changed as a player or gotten much better.
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Old 05-02-2013, 01:30 PM   #1650
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Default Re: 2012/2013 UEFA Champions League Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lebowsky
Man I don't know what the hell you are watching. He was brought up as an OMF in Oviedo, and Celta signed him for their B team to play in a Gerrard/Lampard/Ballack role, which he did in his only season there. Then he was promoted to their A team, and he usually played striker or support striker. Anyway, it's an irrelevant discussion, and the point still stands: he was an ok player for a middle-of-the-pack 2nd. division team until Rayo signed him and had a very good season in the 1st. division (10th in goals scored). Now he's the 5th best scorer in the EPL, and he even led the table at some point if my memory serves me right. And it's not like he's changed as a player or gotten much better.

Just let it go.

I understand now: the reason Liga players can to the EPL and pretty much always look better in there than they did in the Liga is because they have better teammates in the EPL and because they are late bloomers.

Not because of any other reason.
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