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Old 09-01-2013, 02:11 AM   #1
StusOneGoodEye
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Default Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - are they real?

What the flying **** are these places after you die? Are they real?
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Old 09-01-2013, 02:15 AM   #2
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Default Re: Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - are they real?

if you believe in them, they're real.

if not, then "no."

if you take them as metaphors, then we're living right amongst them sometimes, and... they're inside of us.
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Old 09-01-2013, 02:49 AM   #3
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Default Re: Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - are they real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigantes
if you believe in them, they're real.

if not, then "no."

if you take them as metaphors, then we're living right amongst them sometimes, and... they're inside of us.

So, according to you, if you simply "do not believe in them" they do not exist. You speak as if your statement is fact, when the real fact is, you don't know for sure whether either of them exists or not. Your statement has fallacy written all over it, and you know it (deep within); however, sadly enough, you "think" you know enough to know deep within neither heaven nor hell exist, therefore, you make such a statement.
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Old 09-01-2013, 02:53 AM   #4
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Default Re: Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - are they real?

Are they real?

No, they are abstract ideas produced by the brain. They are real in that they have become well known terms, what they mean has been discussed and transversed into writings that may last for thousands of years or who knows how long.

But, when the brain dies (lack of oxygen, etc), so do religious and philosophical concepts stored within it. How many memories do you have from your "before life", before your brain existed?

Over time, society has been systematically trained to be "god fearing" via some posthumous punishment, and that, in combination with our species self-righteousness (how dare anyone insinuate life can completely end!), has lead to the illusion of a "eternal after life".

But that's my take in a nutshell... Obviously there's been thousands of books written on the topic ... having said all that, metaphysics is intriguing and I don't discount all of it.
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Old 09-01-2013, 02:53 AM   #5
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Default Re: Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - are they real?

Hell is real. I have solid evidence. Doom.

The other ones are not so real.
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Old 09-01-2013, 03:05 AM   #6
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Default Re: Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - are they real?

No. Just get really super high off some hash and you will feel like what it feels to be dead... cus your more or less braindead.

I will say this though. I don't know what the mind goes through as the body dies because the body dies when the heart stops pumping. You could be conscious enough to experience your version of heaven if you believe whole heartedly that heaven is what awaits you... in that case anything that is considered good or pleasurable by your brain will seem like heaven. Hell is the same thing. That may very well be the last thing you experience before you brain goes kaput... but who knows. I think it's possible that people could be in a limbo state for seemingly forever as your brain slowly comes to a halt. What the brain does in that state is not up to your ego (what you think is you), but instead up to the trillions of connections it has made over your lifespan.

Who the hell knows though nobody has the slightest clue why the hell any of us exist and it takes some seriously brilliant/tuned in/don't give a crap if people think they are nuts/ people to figure anything out. All you need to know though is that death is not something to fear... only to avoid.

Last edited by Swaggin916 : 09-01-2013 at 03:16 AM.
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Old 09-01-2013, 03:07 AM   #7
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Default Re: Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - are they real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCdac
Are they real?

No, they are abstract ideas produced by the brain. They are real in that they have become well known terms, what they mean has been discussed and transversed into writings that may last for thousands of years or who knows how long.

But, when the brain dies (lack of oxygen, etc), so do religious and philosophical concepts stored within it. How many memories do you have from your "before life", before your brain existed?

Over time, society has been systematically trained to be "god fearing" via some posthumous punishment, and that, in combination with our species self-righteousness (how dare anyone insinuate life can completely end!), has lead to the illusion of a "eternal after life".

But that's my take in a nutshell... Obviously there's been thousands of books written on the topic ... having said all that, metaphysics is intriguing and I don't discount all of it.
nice post.

i would point out those who claim past lives. although i see various explanations for that as well, such as jungian archetypes / collective unconscious, schizotypal personality disorder, etc.

have you read any robert anton wilson?
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Old 09-01-2013, 03:10 AM   #8
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Default Re: Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - are they real?

If you're interested I know a guy that sells indulgences, to keep you out of purgatory, 100 bucks a pop, for each sin you feel iffy about. First one on the house, you get a certificate and everything.


Might sound comical but that's how they built some of those grandiose churches during early renaissance
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Old 09-01-2013, 03:25 AM   #9
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Default Re: Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - are they real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swaggin916
...I think it's possible that people could be in a limbo state for seemingly forever as your brain slowly comes to a halt. What the brain does in that state is not up to your ego (what you think is you), but instead up to the trillions of connections it has made over your lifespan. ...
that was seriously brilliant.

if i may ask, swaggin... was that your own thought?
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Old 09-01-2013, 04:01 AM   #10
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Default Re: Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - are they real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigantes
nice post.

i would point out those who claim past lives. although i see various explanations for that as well, such as jungian archetypes / collective unconscious, schizotypal personality disorder, etc.

have you read any robert anton wilson?

No, I haven't. at least I don't think. I'll check em out for sure. But, collective unconscious has some psychological and scientific merits I think, I'm a big Carl Sagan fan, know some Jung. I think we definitely share some psychological traits (or ingrained "thoughts and past experiences") with our hominid ancestors, maybe even something that can be construed as memories, but I think it's all rooted in evolution (of the brain). Carl Sagan in a book Dragons of Eden for instance talks about one of human's most recurring dreams (the fear of falling) and that clear connection with other primates, who live high in trees and falling equals death...

Touching on Swaggin's post, the release of DMT during death or near death surely would certainly make that limbo state very interesting (I've never taken it, but it's accessible), however I like to think that's more biology and neuroscience more than it is "entering a religious state of judgement" . Interesting notion though. the notion of Time is so hazy when unconscious. For "life's sake", I hope that process in between life and death lasts awhile and is all kinds of badass (Spurs win more championships). But I think hope and belief probably have nothing to do with it.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:16 AM   #11
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Default Re: Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - are they real?

I don't think so. I don't fear dying...I accept it as a natural part of living. I therefore don't feel the need to comfort myself with the idea of living after death.

I also accept that I could be wrong. There's no way to know for sure until death comes my way, and by then it'll be too late. In the meantime, I'll carry on treating people well and doing the right things anyway.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:38 AM   #12
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Default Re: Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - are they real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCdac
No, I haven't. at least I don't think. I'll check em out for sure. But, collective unconscious has some psychological and scientific merits I think, I'm a big Carl Sagan fan, know some Jung. I think we definitely share some psychological traits (or ingrained "thoughts and past experiences") with our hominid ancestors, maybe even something that can be construed as memories, but I think it's all rooted in evolution (of the brain). Carl Sagan in a book Dragons of Eden for instance talks about one of human's most recurring dreams (the fear of falling) and that clear connection with other primates, who live high in trees and falling equals death...
yes, i pretty much agree, and the falling thing is quite interesting!

there was another thread recently about lucid dreaming, and people were sideways complaining about not being able to ever get sex or to finish sex in their dreams. but it sort of hit me the other day... isn't that exactly a limit that nature would reinforce over time? that is, the better we were able to satisfy that need in dreams, the more those humans would fall behind the procreation race to those who insisted on the real deal.

Quote:
Touching on Swaggin's post, the release of DMT during death or near death surely would certainly make that limbo state very interesting (I've never taken it, but it's accessible), however I like to think that's more biology and neuroscience more than it is "entering a religious state of judgement" . Interesting notion though. the notion of Time is so hazy when unconscious. For "life's sake", I hope that process in between life and death lasts awhile and is all kinds of badass (Spurs win more championships). But I think hope and belief probably have nothing to do with it.
yea, there's just a million evidences that suggest that partially-awake / partially-active mental states are fascinating experiences, sometimes heavy with religious overtones. these are all available when still alive, so i see no reason why the final trip or a NDE wouldn't be one of the coolest drug trips of all. with the nets beating the spurs, natch.
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Old 09-01-2013, 10:54 AM   #13
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Default Re: Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - are they real?

Of course they're real.

Having sex with Kate Upton - Heaven
Getting wisdom teeth pulled - Hell
Waiting on line at the DMV - Purgatory


All very real.
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Old 09-01-2013, 12:50 PM   #14
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Default Re: Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - are they real?

Heaven and hell are real. Purgatory is false.

Heaven is eternal and hell is temporary. The lake of fire, however, that's forever too.
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Old 09-01-2013, 01:22 PM   #15
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Default Re: Heaven, Hell, Purgatory - are they real?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoodlum Science
So, according to you, if you simply "do not believe in them" they do not exist. You speak as if your statement is fact, when the real fact is, you don't know for sure whether either of them exists or not. Your statement has fallacy written all over it, and you know it (deep within); however, sadly enough, you "think" you know enough to know deep within neither heaven nor hell exist, therefore, you make such a statement.

well the counterpoint is that if you believe it then its real?

No one knows for sure if heaven and hell exist.

The weird part is religion is the only thing that people feel needs to be disproved before it is untrue

They accept it as true before any evidence.
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