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Old 09-12-2012, 08:45 PM   #31
lilbeastnani
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Default Re: The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

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Originally Posted by PJR
Unfortunately players today are victims of the information age. The facebooks, and twitters, discussion forums and such. Information widespread in a matter of minutes. Shit like workouts between two great players would be a non-story 20 years ago. Today? Something so trivial is broken down and analyzed lol...
I can agree to that. The media back in those days used to be microphones and newspapers, and reached a much smaller demographic. Today the media is youtube, blogs, internet, TMZ, gossip websites, etc etc.... Lebron takes a shit and 5 minutes later it's front page news with pics and video clips...

Having said that I feel like rivalries these days are a lot more friendly than they were back in those days. It has been mentioned that Barkley/Jordan had dinner every night during the finals... I fully admit I didn't know that and it would definitely be front page news if it happened now. At the same time (even though I don't know this) I can assume that when they went out to dinner the last thing they talked about was basketball. And then when they were on the court together they weren't smiling and laughing together in a friendly manor, they were talking shit. They were friendly and they were friends but there's no doubt about it that it was a rivalry.

Durant/Lebron to me are a different breed. If you look at the best players of today, they don't really seem to directly go at each other. Who is Lebron's rival? He doesn't have one. The closest person he has to a rival is Kevin Durant and they work out together, they like each other, they play flag football together in the offseason, compete against each other in charity games, etc etc... And they "go at" each other in terms of just playing within themselves and playing their games but you never get a sense of a real rivalry between them. Durant's teammates go at Bron hard, Durant doesn't.

The only guys I see who still have that fierce competitive nature about them are the guys who came in towards the end of that era and towards the beginning of the next era. Guys like Kobe or Paul Pierce for an example.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:14 PM   #32
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Default Re: The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

Back in the days when the NBA was a 8 team league there were stories that after doubleheaders especially at Madison Square Garden all the players who just played would all go out together for big league parties. Wilt also used to travel with Knicks players back to New York after games in Philly when he lived in NY.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:17 PM   #33
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Default Re: The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

Friendliness did not extend on court. And you don't see Magic jumping over to the Pistons because he can't win on his own.
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:24 PM   #34
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Default Re: The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

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Originally Posted by Indian guy
MJ and Barkley were having dinner together pretty much every night during the '93 Finals. Picture that for a second - here's Barkley, getting his ass kicked by MJ every night, yet still going out to eat with him after the game.


Jordan was softening him up...

Quote:
The day before game 4 of the Bulls Suns finals with the Bulls leading the series 2-1. Michael and Charles Barkley went golfing. They played 48 holes of golf. And Michael bought Charles a $20,000 diamond earring. Johnny asked MJ, “what did you do all that for?” Michael responded, “he won’t get in my way the rest of the series, what’s $20,000 to me? Charles thinks we’re great friends. I hate that fat f—.” Jordan dropped 55 in game 4 and Barkley never touched him once.

http://blogs.thescore.com/tbj/2011/0...ichael-jordan/

http://dsy.posterous.com/50904227
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:27 PM   #35
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Default Re: The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

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Friendliness did not extend on court.

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Old 09-12-2012, 09:34 PM   #36
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Default Re: The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

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The day before game 4 of the Bulls Suns finals with the Bulls leading the series 2-1. Michael and Charles Barkley went golfing. They played 48 holes of golf. And Michael bought Charles a $20,000 diamond earring. Johnny asked MJ, “what did you do all that for?” Michael responded, “he won’t get in my way the rest of the series, what’s $20,000 to me? Charles thinks we’re great friends. I hate that fat f—.” Jordan dropped 55 in game 4 and Barkley never touched him once.

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Old 09-12-2012, 09:44 PM   #37
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Default Re: The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

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Wonder how Round Mound takes that story.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:19 AM   #38
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Default Re: The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

I understand a direct comparison in this regard never ends well, but haven't you guys all had tons of moments where you've played ball against people you knew but hated them for as long as the game was going? Some of the folks on the basketball court I most often tend to get to know off the court are those who really, really battle with me, often resulting in arguments, cheap shots, and a nasty will to win from both sides. We beat the hell out of each other and we feel like we hate each other. Then when the game ends, we high five and both of us understand and truly know that it's all good.

I have to imagine similar feelings have occurred in the NBA for as long as it has existed. Further, the bonds are likely easier to come by because of the unique life scenario every single NBA player finds themselves in. Who can relate to a multi-millionaire who plays a game for a living? Another multi-millionaire who plays a game for a living. At the end of the day, these guys work in the entertainment industry. It's not life or death. If nothing else, they're probably a lot more isolated than so-called normal folk. Their fame, wealth, and line of work does not lead to easy moments of finding friends who respect them for who they are and can relate to how they live. As such, it's not surprising many players tend to stick together, regardless of team (business) alliance.

Last edited by Rake2204 : 09-13-2012 at 12:23 AM.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:56 AM   #39
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Default Re: The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

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Keep

Will sell post #5 for 50 cents.
I can pay 45 cents tops...
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Old 09-13-2012, 01:16 AM   #40
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Default Re: The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

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Originally Posted by Owl
Not sure what you're getting at here. I would think both parties would benefit equally from inside knowledge. Unless you're suggesting the dominant personality instigated the friendship for purely self-interested, utilitarian purposes (Russell denied that this was the case with Wilt). I'm not sure that you couldn't just point to the one that won after the fact and say that person was "the prominent guy", which I'm not sure what is meant by in this context.

This isn't meant to mock, I'm just not sure that I get your point, so clarification would be appreciated.

When I say prominent I mean the more domineering personality.

Wilt was a gentle giant who didn't wanna hurt anyone unless provoked, Bill played more intensely and comes across as a more sincere dude than Wilt while physically he was just more imposing than Elgin who seemed more laid back.

Magic was domineering but wanted to be loved while Zeke didn't give sh*t whether he was liked or not, he wanted to win, Magic wanted to win, therefore Zeke would not bow down to Magic.

Jordan of course had and still has the more domineering personality of he, Charles, and Pat therefore he knew they'd eventually bow down and I'm sure some of those elbows Barkley gave Pip during their rivalry he likely "Waterboy'ed" Mike's head in Pippen's body cause Mike knew he wouldn't elbow him like that.

LeBron has a more domineering personality than KD, that should be evident by KD not even being able to check his own teammate (Westbrook) so I'm sure LeBron feels this deep down, whether KD changes remains to be seen, that is if the Thunder even get back to the Finals.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:30 AM   #41
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Default Re: The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

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Do you know how long it takes to play 48 holes of golf? I doubt this is true.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:36 AM   #42
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Default Re: The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

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Originally Posted by jlip
In light of the story surrounding Lebron's and Durant's controversial off season workouts and the multiple claims of this being reflective of this generation's "lack of competitive spirit", I decided to do some research on some older legends to determine if they did similar things. Here is what I've uncovered.

Bill Russell and Wilt Chamberlain were actually close friends. The Celtics and Wilt Chamberlain's Philadelphia Warriors often played each other on Thanksgiving Day. On games in Philadelphia, Russell, along teammates K.C. Jones and Sam Jones, would eat turkey dinner at Chamberlain's house.
Source


In this video (@ 2:51 mark) Bill Russell says, "When Elgin was playing for the Lakers...every pre game meal we had, we had together. In Boston he was at my house. And at Minneapolis and in LA, I was at his house."

The video also speaks of how Russell, after having Thanksgiving dinner with Wilt's family, would take a nap in Wilt's bed, and then they would head to the game.

What captured me in this video is the fact that the host, Chris Rose, actually was under the familiar impression that "old school" competitors would never fraternize with one another like that, telling Russell that such things just don't sound like his perception of what "old school" players used to do. He was wrong.

This was not some off season workout we're talking about. This was during the season and just a couple of hours before the game. Try telling Russell he wasn't competitive.
This is quit different from others. You gotta remember back then black couldn't really eat at restaurants. So when in town at an opposite house, they eat sometime even sleep in he guess room. It was more looking out for your brother.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:51 AM   #43
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Default Re: The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

I have no doubt that bigtime competitors trained together in the past... they just didn't post it on facebook, or twitter it out for the whole world to know.


Without modern day social media, none of us would probably even know LeBron and Durant were training together.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:03 AM   #44
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Default Re: The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

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Originally Posted by Heilige

The stories don't fact check properly.

Trey Kerby even mentions it in the first paragraph. To quote him, "Red flags all around."

Read some of the responses for specific errors.
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Old 09-13-2012, 11:11 AM   #45
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Default Re: The Myth of Old School Competitiveness = Not Befriending Your Rival

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Originally Posted by Indian guy
MJ and Barkley were having dinner together pretty much every night during the '93 Finals. Picture that for a second - here's Barkley, getting his ass kicked by MJ every night, yet still going out to eat with him after the game.

This is why the whole notion of stars from the past not being buddy-buddy or being these uber-competitive guys who didn't socialize off the court is so moronic. Stop being an idiot. Being friends with a peer doesn't make you any less competitive.

Could you imagine the media firestorm if it had been reported that after losing game 1 of the Finals, Lebron had decided to go to a club with Durant? We would be hearing all types of lies about how the greats of the past would never have done that, and how Lebron still doesn't "get it" lacking their competitive drive.
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