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Old 09-13-2012, 03:30 AM   #31
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillC
The greatest passer in NBA history still hasn't been voted in? This isn't just about longevity, people. He's the purest point guard of all-time. Ewing over Stockton? Sure, if you want someone who settles for the jump shot in clutch time.

My vote is for Stockton.

Also, I find it funny that people have voted for Ewing ahead of Walt Frazier

What? Most prolific perhaps due to the all-time lead, but longevity doesn't make you greater, per se.
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Old 09-13-2012, 05:58 AM   #32
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Got to go with John Stockton here.
Led the league in assists 9 times, and also has the most career assists in NBA History.
Led the league in steals twice, also has the most career steals in NBA History.
So obviously he was a great passer and defender, but he also scored the ball very efficiently, 61% TS% career average, with a season as high as 65.6% TS.
Well deserved

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Old 09-13-2012, 07:04 AM   #33
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

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The greatest passer in NBA history still hasn't been voted in? This isn't just about longevity, people. He's the purest point guard of all-time. Ewing over Stockton? Sure, if you want someone who settles for the jump shot in clutch time.

You do know that everyone from Sprewell to Kevin Johnson and Mark Price types were ranked over stockton in his prime right?

How is someone like Ewing ranked over Stockton for literally 15 years suddenly worse than him when both have been gone for 10 years?

I really want to know. Not a single person who voted for Stockton has even made a half assed argument for it. He flat out was NOT ranked over Pat and likely wins a poll of anyone credible from like 1983 to 1998. So why should he be behind him in retrospect?
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Old 09-13-2012, 08:23 AM   #34
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Even though I know people are doing the "Vote for the same guy till he wins" thing for Stockton and wont care about Dave Cowens working his ass off, being considered greater in his era, and having a flat out more accomplished career....id still like to say just for his sake....

Dave Cowens won the MVP...voted by the players at the time. He was second at least one other time if not twice. He led his team in points, rebounds, asssists, steals, and blocks....the only other people to ever do that are already on the list. Several of them top 20. Some top 10.

He was not all nba first team like Stockton...but really...you have to be better than Kareem to be better than Stockton, Pistol Pete, Frazier, and others getting votes lately?

He was still an all star level player vs people that top 5 guys on this list get credit for playing. And I dont even mean Kareem. Magic works the 76ers with Doc, Dawkins, Jones, and so on....it counts. Cowens does it and nobody cares because it was in the 70s? When some of them were better than when Magic played them......

This guy was one of the best defenders and rebounders in the league. His most famous play(the only play of his anyone remembers)...hes a center stuck one on one with Oscar robertson...rips him straight up and out hustles him to the ball as the arena explodes with the forced shot clock violation...game 6 of the NBA finals. Score tied at 86. Iconic play.

Game 7 he has 28/14/4 outplaying Kareem to win the title. He had 26/19 and 21/17 to closeout his next finals series to get ring #2.

He was a 21/16 playeri n his prime and at 30....months before Larry Bird was drafted...he was still a 19/14/5 player.

Again...I dont think anyone votes him in...I just wish people cared.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:15 PM   #35
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by fpliii
What? Most prolific perhaps due to the all-time lead, but longevity doesn't make you greater, per se.

Ignore longevity then, if you choose to.

Who has the highest APG in a single season?

Stockton.

Who led the NBA in assists per game for the most consecutive seasons?

Stockton.
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:17 PM   #36
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

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Old 09-13-2012, 12:20 PM   #37
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

John Stockton
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:52 PM   #38
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillC
Ignore longevity then, if you choose to.

Who has the highest APG in a single season?

Stockton.

Who led the NBA in assists per game for the most consecutive seasons?

Stockton.

And in his two highest assists seasons he was 9th and 12 in MVP voting behind such people as Nique, Kevin Johnson, Drexler, terry Porter, Tom Chambers and so on. He was hanging out down with Buck Williams and Kenny smith types there.

And all of these people were ahead of Stockton on all NBA teams while he was leading the league in assists:


Kevin Johnson
Mark Price
Mitch Richmond
Penny
Tim Hardaway
Payton


All of the following people were ahead of Stockton MVP voting wise in his prime which I will say ended in the late 90s:


Fat Lever
Tom Chambers
Brad Daugherty
Dennis Rodman
Shawn Kemp
Joe Dumars
Sprewell
Mookie Blaylock
Kevin Willis
Grant Hill
Glenn Rice
Anthony Mason
Zo
Mutombo
Vin Baker
Antione Walker


Not counting the many elite players of that time of course.


The NBA coaches...not fans...the coaches...they chose Fat Lever over Stockton during a 15/14 57% shooting on a good team. Coaches chose Fat lever and Alvin Robertson to be on the all star team over John.

In 1990(end of 90...pre playoffs) after back to back 17/15 seasons in the GM poll on who you want to start a team...Kevin Johnson got 6 times the votes Stockton did(1). Stockton tied Buck Williams and was 4 behind James worthy.

Now...what makes you and so many others more qualified to judge these guys standing 25 years later than the people watching them daily at the time?

What was wrong with them? These....players, coaches, GMs, and fans who didnt seem to find Stockton nearly as elite a player as rankingsl ike this suggest?


No doubt many many people thought he was the best point guard by the mid 90s. Ive read many things making that clear...and I watched him at the time and would agree.

He was the best point for much of the 90s. I just....dont know what happened 20 years later to make people so much more impressed than they were then. John NEVER came up as the best or one of the best players. But now....many say hes above Ewing?

Its just funny how time changes these things. In 50 years John might be top 10 the way its going.
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Old 09-13-2012, 01:47 PM   #39
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

I honestly think Patrick Ewing should be right there with David Robinson and not 7 spots behind. I don't really see that big of a difference between the 2. One was just lucky he didn't have to go up against Jordan and eventually get Tim Duncan on his team. Both should be below Isiah as well.
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Old 09-13-2012, 02:51 PM   #40
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
And in his two highest assists seasons he was 9th and 12 in MVP voting behind such people as Nique, Kevin Johnson, Drexler, terry Porter, Tom Chambers and so on. He was hanging out down with Buck Williams and Kenny smith types there.

And all of these people were ahead of Stockton on all NBA teams while he was leading the league in assists:


Kevin Johnson
Mark Price
Mitch Richmond
Penny
Tim Hardaway
Payton


All of the following people were ahead of Stockton MVP voting wise in his prime which I will say ended in the late 90s:


Fat Lever
Tom Chambers
Brad Daugherty
Dennis Rodman
Shawn Kemp
Joe Dumars
Sprewell
Mookie Blaylock
Kevin Willis
Grant Hill
Glenn Rice
Anthony Mason
Zo
Mutombo
Vin Baker
Antione Walker


Not counting the many elite players of that time of course.


The NBA coaches...not fans...the coaches...they chose Fat Lever over Stockton during a 15/14 57% shooting on a good team. Coaches chose Fat lever and Alvin Robertson to be on the all star team over John.

In 1990(end of 90...pre playoffs) after back to back 17/15 seasons in the GM poll on who you want to start a team...Kevin Johnson got 6 times the votes Stockton did(1). Stockton tied Buck Williams and was 4 behind James worthy.

Now...what makes you and so many others more qualified to judge these guys standing 25 years later than the people watching them daily at the time?

What was wrong with them? These....players, coaches, GMs, and fans who didnt seem to find Stockton nearly as elite a player as rankingsl ike this suggest?


No doubt many many people thought he was the best point guard by the mid 90s. Ive read many things making that clear...and I watched him at the time and would agree.

He was the best point for much of the 90s. I just....dont know what happened 20 years later to make people so much more impressed than they were then. John NEVER came up as the best or one of the best players. But now....many say hes above Ewing?

Its just funny how time changes these things. In 50 years John might be top 10 the way its going.

Shut the **** up

All the point guards from that era said John Stockton was the guy they hated going up against the most. He probably wasn't a legit franchise player, but he is literally the prototypical point guard. If your teaching a kid how to play the point, you show them John Stockton. Literally had no weaknesses at the position.

I vote Stockton
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:04 PM   #41
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillC
The greatest passer in NBA history still hasn't been voted in? This isn't just about longevity, people. He's the purest point guard of all-time. Ewing over Stockton? Sure, if you want someone who settles for the jump shot in clutch time.

Ewing was clearly better than Stockton for the duration of their primes. There's a reason a lot of people would take Ewing over Stockton, and it's not because of someone who's settling for a jump shot.

Also speaking of clutch time... Elimination game numbers:

Ewing: 23.4ppg 13rpg 2.4apg 0.9spg 2.1bpg 2.6tpg 48.3%fg 25%3pt (1-4) 74.1%ft (28 games)

Stockton: 13.3ppg 2.9rpg 10.5apg 1.8spg 0.4bpg 2.7tpg 44.9%fg 28.8%3pt 88.3%ft (32 games)


Also factor in that Ewing's defense was better than Stockton's, I don't think you will find anybody saying Ewing's really that much of someone who's going to shy away from pressure moments in comparison to Stockton.

Hell, even Karl Malone played better than Stockton in elimination games and he often gets much more blame (not that he shouldn't, since he was the best player on those Jazz teams) for their playoff failures.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:13 PM   #42
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by guy
I honestly think Patrick Ewing should be right there with David Robinson and not 7 spots behind. I don't really see that big of a difference between the 2. One was just lucky he didn't have to go up against Jordan and eventually get Tim Duncan on his team. Both should be below Isiah as well.

Ewing was 0-5 vs Jordan lead teams, but he also had chances when Jordan wasn't in the way. He blew his chances too and other times his teammates didn't step up.

I do agree that their closer all-time.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:14 PM   #43
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops



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Old 09-13-2012, 03:23 PM   #44
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
Ewing was 0-5 vs Jordan lead teams, but he also had chances when Jordan wasn't in the way. He blew his chances too and other times his teammates didn't step up.

I do agree that their closer all-time.

My point is Robinson never had to face Jordan that many times nor did he ever win a title without someone better then him like Tim Duncan.

And yes, his best chance came when Jordan retired and in that first year he got beat by someone better then both of them in Hakeem.

I'm not trying to make excuses for him. He sure as hell lost sometimes when he should've won. But so did Robinson. If you switch their career situations, I don't think much is different.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:26 PM   #45
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

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Originally Posted by guy
I honestly think Patrick Ewing should be right there with David Robinson and not 7 spots behind. I don't really see that big of a difference between the 2. One was just lucky he didn't have to go up against Jordan and eventually get Tim Duncan on his team. Both should be below Isiah as well.

I agreed. Also there is no way Reed to be above Ewing either. It goes to show you who and how many are just clueless.
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