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Old 09-13-2012, 03:28 PM   #46
WillC
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiThrice
Shut the **** up

All the point guards from that era said John Stockton was the guy they hated going up against the most. He probably wasn't a legit franchise player, but he is literally the prototypical point guard. If your teaching a kid how to play the point, you show them John Stockton. Literally had no weaknesses at the position.

I vote Stockton

^Well said.

I'd take Stockton's career over Ewing's, thank you very much.

There are 10 centers who were more dominant than Ewing:

- Wilt, Russell, Kareem, O'Neal, Olajuwon, Moses, Mikan, Robinson, Reed and Cowens. You could also make a case for Walton.

At point guard, the list of players I'd take ahead of Stockton is very short:

- Magic, Oscar, Cousy and Isiah.

That's it.

Give me the 5th best PG ever over the 11th best C.

Thanks.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:54 PM   #47
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

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Originally Posted by guy
I'm not trying to make excuses for him. He sure as hell lost sometimes when he should've won. But so did Robinson. If you switch their career situations, I don't think much is different.

Yeah, I agree here.

If Duncan does come to the Spurs in 97 and Ewing wins some chips, he's probably ranked over Robinson.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:56 PM   #48
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Shut the **** up

All the point guards from that era said John Stockton was the guy they hated going up against the most.

And that means hes better than MVPs who led teams to titles or players ranked over him for almost 20 years?


Quote:
He probably wasn't a legit franchise player

Depends on the franchise. Hes a franchise player in place of Nash on the suns.

But on many teams...no. He isnt. Which is odd for someone ranked top 50. I dont guess its unique. But it is odd.

Quote:

but he is literally the prototypical point guard. If your teaching a kid how to play the point, you show them John Stockton. Literally had no weaknesses at the position.

I vote Stockton

The prototypical shooting guard is probably a Ray Allen, Reggie, or Sam Jones type. Doesnt mean they are better than someone everyone thinks is better than them for 2 decades.


Quote:

I'd take Stockton's career over Ewing's, thank you very much.

There are 10 centers who were more dominant than Ewing:

- Wilt, Russell, Kareem, O'Neal, Olajuwon, Moses, Mikan, Robinson, Reed and Cowens. You could also make a case for Walton.

At point guard, the list of players I'd take ahead of Stockton is very short:

- Magic, Oscar, Cousy and Isiah.

That's it.

Give me the 5th best PG ever over the 11th best C.

Thanks.

The 11th best center was considered better than the 5th best point for over 15 years. During that time GMs, coaches, fans, and players made that quite clear. That you would rather have him means little. Id rather have Kevin Mchale than Karl Malone. Doesnt mean he was considered better.

And its not like I even dislike Stockton. You google my name here and Stockton....you will find nothing but praise. In fact...this is me from 2011:


Quote:
I suspect a lot of people would say that. Stockton went hard. I dont respect anyone any more than I respect John Stockton. Played hard every second, played smart, was clutch, could make any pass anyone ever needed thrown, and he was relentless. Scrappy. The kinda guy I can respect out there. Win or lose. I never had a bad word to say about Stockton.


Something else where I ranked him over Kidd:


Quote:
Gotta say Stockton. some might mention some of the big playoff games Kidd has had and say Stockton was never capable of such things but....I just dont buy it for the most part. He had a role to play and he played it. But he was a more than capable scorer. If you look into some of his exploits closing games in the playoffs its clear he put the team far ahead of his own scoring. He didnt care about anything but who won the game.

Hes had a few more off shooting games in the playoffs than I think people are aware of...but he was willing to put up shots if nobody had it going and the game was slipping away. I remember quite a few times the Jazz got knocked out and John was going harder than anyone down the stretch trying to fight it off.

He played hard every night for damn near 20 years. He took over late in finals games and never got love for it. He held a solid offense together for 15+ years and played defense on anyone you put in front of him. He was also a dick....who didnt care if you hated him if he got to win. He even set good screens and would go in with the bigmen and snatch a rebound if he had to though his numbers dont show it.

Nothing but respect for stockton. And the longevity lovers have to respect him. he was putting up like 13/11 when he was 38 and leading a 50+ win team.

A team the Mavs knocked out in the first round I believe but..still...

Ive loved John Stocktons game.

But really. I watched John Stocktons entire career.

People didnt rank him as high as they do in retrospect. they just didnt. I find that....odd.

Thats all. I find it odd.

And when people start putting him over MVPs who led multiple title teams and mentioning assist titles from years he was like...all nba third team or years coaches picked Fat Lever over him? Just...feels like a reach.

If in his prime doing absurd numbers NBA coaches put Alvin Robertson over him and GMs would rather have Kevin Johnson....how does he bypass MVPs and champs....by getting worse from then on?

Just bad reasoning. Want to vote for him because you like him and respect him? Fine. So do I. But...its just a shitty case.

John Stockton over some of these guys is just....hard to defend.
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Old 09-13-2012, 03:57 PM   #49
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Legends66NBA7
Yeah, I agree here.

If Duncan does come to the Spurs in 97 and Ewing wins some chips, he's probably ranked over Robinson.

Nonsense.

Better defender? Robinson.
Better rebounder? Robinson.
Better scorer? Robinson.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:04 PM   #50
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillC
Nonsense.

Better defender? Robinson.
Better rebounder? Robinson.
Better scorer? Robinson.

I didn't say I would agree with it. People would fall for the rings, though.

Playoff performing is Ewing, agreed ?
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:07 PM   #51
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillC
Nonsense.

Better defender? Robinson.
Better rebounder? Robinson.
Better scorer? Robinson.

Playoff performance? Ewing
Clutch? Ewing
Leadership? Ewing

Playoff performance > Regular season performance
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:17 PM   #52
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

#32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops Voting

17- John Stockton
7- Walt Frazier
1- Elvin Hayes
1- Bob McAdoo
1- Bill Walton

Last edited by Deuce Bigalow : 09-13-2012 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 09-13-2012, 04:21 PM   #53
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

The argument for Ewing is a convincing one.

However, I really dislike the argument that Ewing was a better MVP candidate each year compared to Stockton. You could make a similar case for McGrady or Carmelo Anthony over Pierce based on that logic, but come on, you'd be an idiot to vote for those players ahead of Pierce in an all-time rankings list.

Same applies here; you need to consider a player's peak, longevity, team success, individual awards, style of play, etc.

Stockton ticks every box and was the perfect point guard with no weakness.
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Old 09-13-2012, 06:46 PM   #54
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Default Re: #32 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillC
The argument for Ewing is a convincing one.

However, I really dislike the argument that Ewing was a better MVP candidate each year compared to Stockton. You could make a similar case for McGrady or Carmelo Anthony over Pierce based on that logic, but come on, you'd be an idiot to vote for those players ahead of Pierce in an all-time rankings list.

Same applies here; you need to consider a player's peak, longevity, team success, individual awards, style of play, etc.

Stockton ticks every box and was the perfect point guard with no weakness.

He's got 1 weakness, that's why he's disrespected:
1. His skin color
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