Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops

Go Back   Message Board Basketball Forum - InsideHoops > InsideHoops Main Basketball Forums > NBA Forum

NBA Forum NBA Message Board - NBA Fan Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-08-2013, 02:21 PM   #61
NugzFan
NBA lottery pick
 
NugzFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nugget Nation
Posts: 5,469
Default Re: Javale McGee breaking out this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by tontoz
Strange that the Nuggets are 6.7 pts worse when that player is in the game.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12DEN14.HTM#onoff


I remember you were that idiot who said that McGee was a different player with the Nuggets. Looks like Karl disagrees. "Crazy and lazy" is exactly why the Wizards got rid of him.

Now the Nuggets are paying $11 million per year for a 19 minute per game backup.

strange...mcgee is more talented. younger. cheaper. less injured.

glad you were able to miss every single one of those points.



and id much rather pay 11 million for a 19 mpg talented/efficient backup center than 15 million for a guy who doesnt win games, is 30 (or older?) and misses half the season. im sure thatll get you to the next level. go wiz.
NugzFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 02:23 PM   #62
NuggetsFan
Nuggets/Avs/Broncos.
 
NuggetsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NuggetNation.
Posts: 10,192
Default Re: Javale McGee breaking out this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by tontoz
His post game was good last year with the Wizards. His jump hook was almost automatic and he was starting to use a drop step with some effectiveness. But he was a black hole and still is.

The Nuggets obviously have better spacing than the Wizards which should give him more opportunities but his offense wasn't the problem. His horrible defensive awareness was the problem.

Guess working with Hakeem in the summer didn't improve it? I didn't catch all of his games in Washington but he looks better to me. Everybody in the media says the same, opposing fans agree it looks better. Maybe you're right, maybe they are. I really don't know, and I don't think it matters all that much.

What I do know is he was putting up numbers in Washington going nowhere. He's now playing on a competitive team and he's more efficient scoring slightly less, rebounding less, still blocking 2 shots a game while playing like 8-9 minutes less a game. He had a massive impact in his first playoff series, which was huge for Denver and really helped him get paid.

He's on a leash trying to get developed for the future by Karl. I'm sure he could average 14/9 with 2+ blocks right now, but there would be more mistakes. Thus they are trying to teach him so someday he can do that. Like I said I'm not sure if I agree with that, just clearly what's happening.
NuggetsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 02:58 PM   #63
tontoz
NBA sixth man of the year
 
tontoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,190
Default Re: Javale McGee breaking out this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
Guess working with Hakeem in the summer didn't improve it? I didn't catch all of his games in Washington but he looks better to me. Everybody in the media says the same, opposing fans agree it looks better. Maybe you're right, maybe they are. I really don't know, and I don't think it matters all that much.

What I do know is he was putting up numbers in Washington going nowhere. He's now playing on a competitive team and he's more efficient scoring slightly less, rebounding less, still blocking 2 shots a game while playing like 8-9 minutes less a game. He had a massive impact in his first playoff series, which was huge for Denver and really helped him get paid.

He's on a leash trying to get developed for the future by Karl. I'm sure he could average 14/9 with 2+ blocks right now, but there would be more mistakes. Thus they are trying to teach him so someday he can do that. Like I said I'm not sure if I agree with that, just clearly what's happening.


You keep mentioning a playoff series as if it proves something. In 5 of those games McGee was 6-29 from the field. For the series he averaged 8.6 pts shooting 43.4% while Bynum averaged 16.7 pts shooting 51%.

Not impressed.

It also seems lost on your fanbase that the Lakers ran the triangle offense which means McGee's horrendous pick and roll defense would not be as big of a problem.
tontoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 03:38 PM   #64
NuggetsFan
Nuggets/Avs/Broncos.
 
NuggetsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NuggetNation.
Posts: 10,192
Default Re: Javale McGee breaking out this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by tontoz
You keep mentioning a playoff series as if it proves something. In 5 of those games McGee was 6-29 from the field. For the series he averaged 8.6 pts shooting 43.4% while Bynum averaged 16.7 pts shooting 51%.

Not impressed.

It also seems lost on your fanbase that the Lakers ran the triangle offense which means McGee's horrendous pick and roll defense would not be as big of a problem.

I'm mentioning it while mentioning like 10 other things? You keep on picking one part of my post and responding to it while ignoring everything else.

21/14 on 9-12 shooting
16/15 on 8-12 shooting

Those are two extremely impressive performances. I LOVE how you leaved out the other things he did in the games where he didn't shoot good. Like the game where he went 1-7, he grabbed 14 rebounds and had 5 blocks. He had 9 rebounds and 6 blocked shots in another game where he only had 5 points.

That playoff series showed everybody why he was a project. He looked bad at times, was extremely inconsistent but when he put it together he was HUGE in Denver taking it 7 games. Those two games where he went crazy? Denver won. 2 of our 3 wins in the playoffs came when McGee gave us a huge effort, that's telling and without a doubt more than he ever did in Washington. Unless you consider helping a team get more ping pong balls better than contributing to winning a playoff game in a huge way?

Nene is soft and constantly injured. Talented but was never going to take Denver anywhere, I sincerely hope he does something with Washington after he get paid huge. John Wall is probably my favorite non Nugget. Getting McGee for Nene was a great return for Denver tho and he's fit in just fine. He's on a leash and Karl is being really stern with him which probably seems weird to you because the Wiz loved to play him 27 minutes a night with Nick Young and Blatche and all the other knuckleheads.

He's producing similar numbers on less minutes, being less of a focal point on a more competitive team. Still only 25 years old, elite physical talent. No basketball IQ but is making less and less mistakes than he use to.

If you're arguing he didn't break out? You win. That's obvious. Look at who started this thread. If you're trying to say he hasn't got better, I disagree and so do most people from everything I've heard. Will he more than a backup center to Denver? Yet to be seen. By this time next year he could be starting and averaging 15 points a game, I dunno. That's clearly what Denver has in mind for him after paying him and keeping him on a leash now.
NuggetsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 03:49 PM   #65
tontoz
NBA sixth man of the year
 
tontoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,190
Default Re: Javale McGee breaking out this year

McGee had big games with the Wizards too. It isn't like he suddenly had big games once he went to Denver.

People act like McGee suddenly turned into a different guy once he went to Denver. That is simply not the case. You can look at his season averages in DC, his game logs, whatever and you can see he is the same guy.

Funny you mention rebounding. He is averaging 4 fewer rebounds per game this year. That is a pretty big drop for playing only 9 fewer minutes.

The Lakers triangle offense allowed McGee to spend more time in the paint on defense, hence more blocks and rebounds. It isn't complex.

I was sure the trade was just a salary dump for Denver. I didn't think they would be dumb enough to sign McGee to a long term deal, especially given that he has asthma.

Last edited by tontoz : 02-08-2013 at 03:52 PM.
tontoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:04 PM   #66
NuggetsFan
Nuggets/Avs/Broncos.
 
NuggetsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NuggetNation.
Posts: 10,192
Default Re: Javale McGee breaking out this year

Quote:
McGee had big games with the Wizards too. It isn't like he suddenly had big games once he went to Denver.

No doubt he did. Everyone said from the get go he had TONS of potential. He was also getting way to big of a role and way to many minutes because the Wizards were terrible and they developed him pretty poorly. Not to mention that pairing a low basketball IQ player with a bunch of other stupid players hurts that play.

With all that being said those games in the playoffs were better than anything he did in Washington. Give me a guy stepping up in the brights lights vs the Lakers who had a good frontline and helping his team push a series out rather than a regular season game that turns out meaningless when you can't win 40 games.

Quote:
People act like McGee suddenly turned into a different guy once he went to Denver. That is simply not the case. You can look at his season averages in DC, his game logs, whatever and you can see he is the same guy.

He didn't turn into a different guy, he def started making less mistakes being coaching by Karl and being surrounded by better players in a better situation. You keep bringing up statistics and game logs but what you can't comprehend is that he's doing what he did in Washington almost but doing so on a competitive team in less of a role. Common sense tells you, you'll put up better numbers on a crappier team. If common sense doesn't tell you that, look at the history of the NBA. His rebounding is down, he's scoring like 2 points less. He's more efficient and blocking 2 shots a game, which is down like .5. If he was getting 27 minutes? He'd probably be averaging better numbers, Denver gave him a longterm deal therefore they are looking at the future with McGee not the right now.

Not to mention he did work with Hakeem this summer. Feel free to refuse that it made him any better, but I hope you can fathom the idea that maybe, just maybe he did improve.

Quote:
Funny you mention rebounding. He is averaging 4 fewer rebounds per game this year. That is a pretty big drop for playing only 9 fewer minutes.

Denver is what? The 4th best rebounding team in the league right now? I think so anyways. What were the Wizards ranked in his time there? His rebounding is the biggest drop off and I think if he played 9 more minutes he'd probably grab 1-3 more boards a game so really could end up being -1 rebounding with Denver that could be explained by being with a better rebounding team.

Does that make sense to you or do you refuse to believe that also?

Quote:
The Lakers triangle offense allowed McGee to spend more time in the paint on defense, hence more blocks and rebounds. It isn't complex.

This is just laughable. K his blocks were all because the Lakers system. Gotcha. Dude was out leaping everybody, showing his physical tools and just going ham in spurts in that series. Everybody seen it. Showcase of his potential no doubt about it.


Quote:
I was sure the trade was just a salary dump for Denver. I didn't think they would be dumb enough to sign McGee to a long term deal, especially given that he has asthma

Who knows, maybe it turns out to be a bad move. I'd rather have him than lose him for nothing. Gives Denver another 7 footer and he has a big impact on the game, anyone can see that. Question will be how Denver continues to develop him and if he can ever become that starting center that he's shown at times he can be.

Last edited by NuggetsFan : 02-08-2013 at 04:06 PM.
NuggetsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:14 PM   #67
tontoz
NBA sixth man of the year
 
tontoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,190
Default Re: Javale McGee breaking out this year

What is basic common sense is that any post player will have better efficiency with better spacing around him. The better spacing in Denver can easily explain a 2.5% increase in FG%, not to mention playing against backups.

McGee's problem in DC was not too big a role. That is just ignorant. His problem was a complete lack of IQ which made him a huge liability on defense.

Even so he still had big games, like dropping 21/15 on Tim Duncan shooting 69%.

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=320312024

But when his own coach calls him "crazy and lazy" publicly after having him almost a year, that tells me McGee hasn't suddenly seen the light.
tontoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:21 PM   #68
kurple
NBA All-star
 
kurple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,656
Default Re: Javale McGee breaking out this year

mcgee has been great for denver. thats all i know

if he was as good in washington, why did they give him up for Nene?

McGee > Nene. even if you dont consider their contracts
kurple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:26 PM   #69
tontoz
NBA sixth man of the year
 
tontoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,190
Default Re: Javale McGee breaking out this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by kurple
mcgee has been great for denver. thats all i know

if he was as good in washington, why did they give him up for Nene?

McGee > Nene. even if you dont consider their contracts


Because the Wizards were so much better when McGee was on the bench, just like Denver is now.

http://www.82games.com/1213/12DEN14.HTM#onoff

Last edited by tontoz : 02-08-2013 at 04:28 PM.
tontoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:27 PM   #70
NuggetsFan
Nuggets/Avs/Broncos.
 
NuggetsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NuggetNation.
Posts: 10,192
Default Re: Javale McGee breaking out this year

Quote:
What is basic common sense is that any post player will have better efficiency with better spacing around him. The better spacing in Denver can easily explain a 2.5% increase in FG%, not to mention playing against backups.

Keep digging yourself in a hole. Denver is like the 2nd or 3rd worst shooting team in the league? We barely run any post ups and just attack the paint. Spacing? Denver has awful spacing for big men. McGee spends a shit loads of time with Andre Miller who can't shoot. He's on a better team now, which means better looks no doubt about it, but it also means less looks. He probably gets 1 or 2 post ups a game.

Players put up better numbers on shittier teams 99% of the time. It's just what happens. Going forward now? I think if he was getting 27 minutes he would be putting up better numbers than he did with the Wiz.

I love how were using the 40 game sample size for McGee with Washington too. The year before when he played like 70+ with them he was scoring the exact same amount with Denver on more shots in like 9 more minutes again. The rebounding was once again the only difference and I tried to explain and make sense of it, but you once again refuse to look at that?

Quote:
McGee's problem in DC was not too big a role. That is just ignorant. His problem was a complete lack of IQ which made him a huge liability on defense.

McGee's problem was that he was on an awful team, aloud to do anything, playing way too many minutes for how low his basketball IQ was like you said and was surrounded by idiots like himself. So yeah he played too big a role, when he was with Washington he probably should have been playing 15-19 minutes a game. That's where he's at now, 2 years ago Karl would have had him glued to the bench or playing even less minutes than right now.

Quote:
Even so he still had big games, like dropping 21/15 on Tim Duncan shooting 69%.

http://espn.go.com/nba/boxscore?id=320312024

Yeah I'm taking 21/15 in the playoffs 10/10 times. I've already said he had huge games with Washington and showed tons of potential, part of the reason we traded for him.

Quote:
But when his own coach calls him "crazy and lazy" publicly after having him almost a year, that tells me McGee hasn't suddenly seen the light.

It's George Karl. The fact that McGee has finished games at times and played as big of a role as he has should tell you enough. He's held 100% accountable and because of that has shown improvements and gotten better. Is he still a retard? Clearly and that'll never change. Getting him to a point where you can start him and play him 30 minutes is the goal tho because as low as his basketball IQ is he'll be able to make a big impact like he is right now with his physical tools and size.
NuggetsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:29 PM   #71
kurple
NBA All-star
 
kurple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 9,656
Default Re: Javale McGee breaking out this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by tontoz
Because the Wizards were so much better when McGee was on the bench, just like Denver is now.
+/- doesnt tell anything close to the whole story
kurple is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:31 PM   #72
NuggetsFan
Nuggets/Avs/Broncos.
 
NuggetsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NuggetNation.
Posts: 10,192
Default Re: Javale McGee breaking out this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by kurple
+/- doesnt tell anything close to the whole story

What is this, hockey? ..
NuggetsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:36 PM   #73
tontoz
NBA sixth man of the year
 
tontoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,190
Default Re: Javale McGee breaking out this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by kurple
+/- doesnt tell anything close to the whole story


It is telling the same story for the last two seasons though. McGee had the worst +/- for the Wizards AND the Nuggets last year and is continuing that trend this year.
tontoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:46 PM   #74
tontoz
NBA sixth man of the year
 
tontoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 7,190
Default Re: Javale McGee breaking out this year

Quote:
Originally Posted by NuggetsFan
Keep digging yourself in a hole. Denver is like the 2nd or 3rd worst shooting team in the league? We barely run any post ups and just attack the paint. Spacing? Denver has awful spacing for big men.


Last year the Wizards were ranked 28th in offensive efficiency and 3 point shooting FYI.


Quote:
Players put up better numbers on shittier teams 99% of the time.

They put up more points but not on higher efficiency.


McGee was not "aloud" to do anything in DC. He was routinely pulled for his mental lapses but they kept happening, even in a contract year.

Is he suddenly going to reform AFTER signing a big contract? Is that what you are going to hang your hat on?
tontoz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2013, 04:55 PM   #75
NuggetsFan
Nuggets/Avs/Broncos.
 
NuggetsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: NuggetNation.
Posts: 10,192
Default Re: Javale McGee breaking out this year

Quote:
Last year the Wizards were ranked 28th in offensive efficiency and 3 point shooting FYI.

So we've came to the conclusion that Denver and Washington had the same spacing issues? Perfect. 28th is where Denver has been at with the 3 ball, or in that area too. Offensive efficiency we kill because of points in the paint where we lead the league and in transition. Weak in the halfcourt and weak shooting. Awful for a big guy's like McGee, Howard etc.

Quote:
They put up more points but not on higher efficiency.

What is would McGee did? .. he's more efficient with Denver. Only in 42 games did he put up more points. He averaged the same amount of points 10ish in the previous season with Washington. In 9 more minutes, so once again we've came to the same conclusion. Perfect.

Quote:
McGee was not "aloud" to do anything in DC. He was routinely pulled for his mental lapses but they kept happening, even in a contract year.

Is he suddenly going to reform AFTER signing a big contract? Is that what you are going to hang your hat on?

He was aloud alot more than he is in Denver. Look at the minutes, Denver can afford to sit him on the bench. Wiz for whatever reason didn't, almost get 10 more minutes a game and started.

He's def improving. He's improving as a Nugget. I don't think it's absurd that he could develop into a starting center with Denver. Karl and co clearly have a plan for him so it's yet to be seen. You keep mentioning a big contract, effort hasn't been a problem. I think lazy was used by Karl to describe his basketball game. He'll try and make the lazy play with his physical tools instead of using his head, which probably won't ever be corrected. Denver can mask his low basketball IQ by how and when they use him and who they surround him with. Another summer with Hakeem or whoever polishing up his low post game and teaching him when and when not to use it? Like I said before who knows.
NuggetsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
This NBA Basketball News Website Sponsored by:
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:07 PM.




NBA Basketball Forum Key Links:
InsideHoops Home
NBA Rumors
Basketball Blog
NBA Daily Recaps
NBA Videos
Fantasy Basketball
NBA Mock Draft
NBA Free Agents
All-Star Weekend
---
High School Basketball
Streetball
---
InsideHoops Twitter
Search Our Site













Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. Terms of Use/Service | Privacy Policy