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Old 09-24-2012, 09:26 AM   #16
Kblaze8855
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Default Re: #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

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Pierce is also arguably the best player on a championship team and he has the hardware to prove it.

No he isnt. Pierce was never ranked over KG until he fell off due to injury. A week of higher scoring(mostly in losses) does not change that. There was no question who the key player on the Celtics was that season.

Doesnt mean Pierce cant be ranked over Payton. Same basic level. But...he just wasnt the best player on his team in 2008.

Pierce played well below the level he proved capable of in those playoffs. It was one of the few times in his career he didnt step up from the regular season. He didnt look like himself for most of it.
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Old 09-24-2012, 10:17 AM   #17
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Default Re: #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Going to try and lead the vote for Pithcin' Paul Arizin in one of these next few spots.

Arizin was a player comparable to Cousy and Schayes during the 1950's. All three players excelled in the era before and after the shot clock and they were the top player (by reputation at least) on the first three Champions of the shot clock era with Paul's '56 Warriors sandwiched between the Nats and Celtics.

Arizin was a three-time scoring Champion playing for the Warriors and their charismatic owner/coach Eddie "the mogul" Gottlieb. During his second season, 1951-52, Arizin won the scoring Championship averaging 25 ppg. Two more than Mikan and four more than Cousy. He also led the league in FG% from the field in a league where only seven players topped 40%. He was an innovator of the jump shot. He took what previous Warrior scoring star (and 1952 teammate) Joe Fulks started and brought tremendous efficiency to the shot focusing on balance and a consistent release. Basically he invented what we today consider the pull-up jumper.

After the '52 Campaign, Arizin took a few years off to fight in the Korean conflict for the Air Force. When he got back in 1954, the league had changed quite a bit. Mikan was gone, instead of six black players (as in 51-52) there were now nearly twenty, there was a 24-second shot clock where previously possessions were ended only by a defensive rebound, turnover or end of period. Still Arizin picked up right where he left off. The Warriors which had gone 41-100 in two seasons without him jumped right back to near .500 that first year and Arizin averaged 21-9 on 40% shooting.

The 1955-56 season was arguably his finest. He was second in the league in scoring and field goal percentage, second in the MVP voting to Bob Pettit and in the playoffs he averaged nearly 30 per game while still shooting 45% from the field. The Warriors won 45 games (72-game season), most in the NBA and cruised to the NBA title beating first Syracuse led by Dolph Schayes and then in the Finals the Ft. Wayne Pistons with Larry Foust and George Yardley 4-1.

From there Arizin remained a 20 per game scorer for the remainder of his career. He led the Warriors back to the Eastern Finals in '58 and joined Wilt Chamberlain in 1960 to help Philadelphia twice battle Boston for the Eastern crown before retiring in 1962 with the Warriors poised to move west for the Bay Area.

Certainly Arizin had a greater career than the likes of Gary Payton, Dominique Wilkins, George Gervin and the other remaining quality options here at #43. There is not a player left who had a season like he had in 1956 that ended with a Championship. Most people here haven't heard much about him, but as others have brought up, if you believe Cousy and Schayes are still top 40 players all-time, than Arizin can't be far behind.
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:12 PM   #18
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Default Re: #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Paul Pierce was better than Gary Payton so my vote goes to Pierce.
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:50 PM   #19
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Default Re: #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

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Originally Posted by Kblaze8855
Yea....thats the problem. Kids who claim Kobe would score 80-100 many times in Jordans era because of the lack of defense vote for Payton(as happened one post above yours) and I dont...or GOAT doesnt..its because we...with decades of obsessive NBA watching and gathering of knowledge of its history...just dont have the knowledge he does.

No it's not just having knowledge about Payton that makes people vote for him. That is one of the bigger reasons, but it could be other reasons. Therefore, your final conclusion is invalid. Try again.

Quote:

Thats the problem here. Lack of knowledge.

These people just...know more about NBA history than I do...even though learning about it has been a passion of mine since before some of them were born. I find that likely.....


Anyway...Payton isnt a bad vote here. He could go in now or in like 30 picks and be next to guys roughly on his level. Last time there were guys in the 90s who were all NBA over him in their primes. At this point its just....whatever. Guys voted in soon will likely have guys outside the top 100 who were better than them in their primes. Popularity is gonna get more people in now than their resume.

And Gary is one of the more well known 90s players left. People will vote them in before looking into the likes of Dennis Johnson or anyone from the 50s. Which is...their right. Everyone left would probably fit on like...2 tiers.

Mullin and Zo types might be 30 picks from now. Were not really considered worse than guys like Gary. Few people worth arguing against right now.

Maybe the Pistol Petes who I dont think should even be top 50. But Gary isnt worth arguing against at the moment. But the argument that its a lack of knowledge that kept him out 20 picks ago is just laughable.


Ive probably forgotten more about NBA history and the 90s in particular than some people voting for him. But I guess I hate him right? Like Pauk says I hate Lebron...and Sircharles said I hate Barkley...and some Dirk cheerleader types think I hate him. You obsessive about one guy types really seem to have a fair and level headed take on who hates the object of your affections.

I'm not saying you hate Payton Kblaze. The problem with you, you are the most close-minded poster I have encountered on ISH. It's rather disturbing that you base your arguments on things like: "When I was watching I thought this [with nothing to back it up] and thus, no matter what you say, what I thought is true". I can't tell how ignorant and close-minded you come across. Thats your problem. And honestly, I can't fix it, but I'm glad other people aren't as close-minded as you (and thus with good arguments voted GP Top 30 last time).


So just to say it 1 more time, lack of knowledge? That applies to most ISH Posters. But not you. You don't lack knowledge, you are just close-minded to its highest degree.
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Old 09-24-2012, 01:59 PM   #20
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Default Re: #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Sam Jones
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:05 PM   #21
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Default Re: #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Rodman, best defender all time. A player like him hasn't been seen before or since his NBA playing days.
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:07 PM   #22
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Default Re: #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Since when did Paul Pierce become so overrated? He is getting votes, but I'll still vote for Gervin, Wilkins, Hayes, GP etc before I vote for Pierce.
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:12 PM   #23
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Default Re: #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

George Gervin
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Old 09-24-2012, 02:14 PM   #24
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Default Re: #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

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Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers
Since when did Paul Pierce become so overrated? He is getting votes, but I'll still vote for Gervin, Wilkins, Hayes, GP etc before I vote for Pierce.

Bob McAdoo too, I think he's the only MVP left. (not a vote)
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:23 PM   #25
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Default Re: #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

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Originally Posted by WockaVodka
Paul Pierce was better than Gary Payton so my vote goes to Pierce.

your out of your ****in mind

gonna go with payton here for sure
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Old 09-24-2012, 03:24 PM   #26
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Default Re: #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

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Originally Posted by 1987_Lakers
Since when did Paul Pierce become so overrated? He is getting votes, but I'll still vote for Gervin, Wilkins, Hayes, GP etc before I vote for Pierce.

for me pierce is in that 55-60 range which is still ridiculously good but theres no way he gets in above the guys you mentioned
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:06 PM   #27
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Default Re: #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Nate
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:10 PM   #28
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Default Re: #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

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Originally Posted by GP_20
No it's not just having knowledge about Payton that makes people vote for him. That is one of the bigger reasons, but it could be other reasons. Therefore, your final conclusion is invalid. Try again.



I'm not saying you hate Payton Kblaze. The problem with you, you are the most close-minded poster I have encountered on ISH. It's rather disturbing that you base your arguments on things like: "When I was watching I thought this [with nothing to back it up] and thus, no matter what you say, what I thought is true". I can't tell how ignorant and close-minded you come across. Thats your problem. And honestly, I can't fix it, but I'm glad other people aren't as close-minded as you (and thus with good arguments voted GP Top 30 last time).


So just to say it 1 more time, lack of knowledge? That applies to most ISH Posters. But not you. You don't lack knowledge, you are just close-minded to its highest degree.

You do know that most people in these things who change their minds....do so because they are given new information right? Its a lack of knowledge that makes people so easily swayed. When you know enough to have an informed opinion...there are less new facts to sway you.

I am not swayed because virtually nobody here can tell me anything I dont know. Not because im smarter than anyone. Because this is something I care about and I am an obsessive person. I sit around reading articles from 1974 basketball....because it interests me.

I have too much information on these subjects to be impressed with the facts you can give me. Its not being closed minded. Its having an informed opinion to begin with.
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:39 PM   #29
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Default Re: #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Gary Payton
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Old 09-24-2012, 04:39 PM   #30
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Default Re: #43 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Paul Pierce, top 50 player of all-time, top 10 SF of all-time. He deserves this spot.
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