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Old 09-26-2012, 01:15 AM   #16
miller-time
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Default Re: Atone for your sins!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
Except that the book of Genesis was written thousands of years before Christ came to earth. Either the Bible is the Word of God or someone has a massive paranoid conspiracy theory they need to explain away.

fulfilling prophecies in a world rampant with superstition and virtually no real science, journalist or skeptical methods is fairly easy to do. throw in the poor reliability of oral teaching, mistranslations and edits and re-edits of the bible and blamo, you have a nice little prophecy fulfilled. it isn't a conspiracy, it is willful ignorance and a desire to believe.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:17 AM   #17
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Default Re: Atone for your sins!!!!

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Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
Except that the book of Genesis was written thousands of years before Christ came to earth. Either the Bible is the Word of God or someone has a massive paranoid conspiracy theory they need to explain away.

And the new testament (the part that was made canon by Romans, nevermind the suppressed and omitted bits) was written after he supposedly lived and died, was resurrected, etc the earliest versions ever found were dated to around 200 CE.

So what is your point exactly?

Happy Yom Kippur btw
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:19 AM   #18
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Default Re: Atone for your sins!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
fulfilling prophecies in a world rampant with superstition and virtually no real science, journalist or skeptical methods is fairly easy to do. throw in the poor reliability of oral teaching, mistranslations and edits and re-edits of the bible and blamo, you have a nice little prophecy fulfilled. it isn't a conspiracy, it is willful ignorance and a desire to believe.

We have manuscripts of the Old Testament that date back hundreds of years before the time of Christ, the same Old Testament that is found in the Bible today. Google the Dead Sea Scrolls. So no sorry, thatís wrong. Let me guess, you're one of those people who think Jesus never existed either?
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:22 AM   #19
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Default Re: Atone for your sins!!!!

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Originally Posted by DonDadda59
And the new testament (the part that was made canon by Romans, nevermind the suppressed and omitted bits) was written after he supposedly lived and died, was resurrected, etc the earliest versions ever found were dated to around 200 CE.

So what is your point exactly?

Happy Yom Kippur btw

The earliest Gospel (Mark) was written in the early 40s AD, so roughly 10-15 years after the events of Jesus' life. Portions of the Epistles of the Apostle Paul are ancient creeds that date to within 36 months of the death and resurrection of Christ (see 1 Corinthians 15, Philippians 2:6 etc) There were eyewitness still alive when essentially the entire New Testament was completed. Not sure where you get your "facts" from.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:23 AM   #20
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Default Re: Atone for your sins!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
We have manuscripts of the Old Testament that date back hundreds of years before the time of Christ, the same Old Testament that is found in the Bible today. Google the Dead Sea Scrolls. So no sorry, thatís wrong. Let me guess, you're one of those people who think Jesus never existed either?

what are you talking about? the writers of the new testament had access to the old testament. of course it dates back before christ, that was my ENTIRE point. the writers of the new testament based it on the old testament.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:26 AM   #21
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Default Re: Atone for your sins!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
what are you talking about? the writers of the new testament had access to the old testament. of course it dates back before christ, that was my ENTIRE point. the writers of the new testament based it on the old testament.
OK then, so who made up Jesus? Why did they do it? How did they convince the world He existed, let alone was the Son of God? This ignoring that Jesus is the most historically attested to person in the history of mankind.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:33 AM   #22
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Default Re: Atone for your sins!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
The earliest Gospel (Mark) was written in the early 40s AD, so roughly 10-15 years after the events of Jesus' life. Portions of the Epistles of the Apostle Paul are ancient creeds that date to within 36 months of the death and resurrection of Christ (see 1 Corinthians 15, Philippians 2:6 etc) There were eyewitness still alive when essentially the entire New Testament was completed. Not sure where you get your "facts" from.

The fact of the matter is that the earliest versions ever found of the new testament date back to only 200 BC. Everything else regarding conception dates is pure speculation.

Question for you- What particular subsection of Christianity do you adhere to and how do you feel about the Early Christian writings that were omitted, suppressed, etc from canon by Constantine the Great's minions when they made Paulism the official religion of the Roman Empire? (The Gnostic Gospels, Ebionite aka Original Jewish Christian writings, the lost gospels, etc)?
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:34 AM   #23
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Default Re: Atone for your sins!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
OK then, so who made up Jesus? Why did they do it? How did they convince the world He existed, let alone was the Son of God? This ignoring that Jesus is the most historically attested to person in the history of mankind.

i didn't say there wasn't a historical jesus.

how did muhammad convince the world he was last the prophet of god?
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:34 AM   #24
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Default Re: Atone for your sins!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
OK then, so who made up Jesus? Why did they do it? How did they convince the world He existed, let alone was the Son of God? This ignoring that Jesus is the most historically attested to person in the history of mankind.

Check this old thread out, many of your questions were answered here:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=187076

Let me know if you have any other questions, I'm out for the night
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:38 AM   #25
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Default Re: Atone for your sins!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
The fact of the matter is that the earliest versions ever found of the new testament date back to only 200 BC. Everything else regarding conception dates is pure speculation.

Question for you- What particular subsection of Christianity do you adhere to and how do you feel about the Early Christian writings that were omitted, suppressed, etc from canon by Constantine the Great's minions when they made Paulism the official religion of the Roman Empire? (The Gnostic Gospels, Ebionite aka Original Jewish Christian writings, the lost gospels, etc)?
It's a little earlier than what you claim, but yes it is true that we don't have the originals. But there is good reason to believe we can trust the documents we do have, and a little textual criticism will bear this out. There is more manuscript evidence of the New Testament than the 10 next best works literary works of ancient history combined, found in widely distributed areas across the world and in different languages, meaning they were not changed. And the so called "lost" and Gnostic Gospels were never viewed as part of the Canon. There were heretical documents from the day they were birthed.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:41 AM   #26
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Default Re: Atone for your sins!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by DonDadda59
Check this old thread out, many of your questions were answered here:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...d.php?t=187076

Let me know if you have any other questions, I'm out for the night
No prominent scholar or historian in the world denies the existence of the historical Jesus, secular or non. That's something recent people have claimed to try to shimmy their way out of the Biblical evidence we have. If you're going to take the stance that Jesus never lived then you aren't worth time debating with. Seriously.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:41 AM   #27
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:43 AM   #28
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ill atone after im done dancing
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:43 AM   #29
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Default Re: Atone for your sins!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by miller-time
i didn't say there wasn't a historical jesus.

how did muhammad convince the world he was last the prophet of god?
Muhammad was a political leader and a warlord who spread his ideology and religion by the sword. Jesus ministry lasted for three years and grew miraculously under severe persecution and martyrdom for 300 years after the death of Christ. Islam on the other hand was the exact opposite. You would be killed for NOT being a Muslim, something that still happens to this day.
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Old 09-26-2012, 01:45 AM   #30
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Default Re: Atone for your sins!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatBlaze
It's a little earlier than what you claim, but yes it is true that we don't have the originals. But there is good reason to believe we can trust the documents we do have, and a little textual criticism will bear this out. There is more manuscript evidence of the New Testament than the 10 next best works literary works of ancient history combined, found in widely distributed areas across the world and in different languages, meaning they were not changed. And the so called "lost" and Gnostic Gospels were never viewed as part of the Canon. There were heretical documents from the day they were birthed.

According to whom though? You know that Catholicism basically=Paulism. MANY of the early followers of 'Christ' aka the Ebionites aka the first Jewish Christians thought he was an apostate to the law and a heretic because he basically fused Pagan traditions with their movement in a blatant attempt to recruit the gentiles. But Paul's marketing scheme worked, his story won out, the original Jewish Christians were marginalized, deemed heretics, and their works sequestered.

Remember the old saying- History is written by the victor. I suggest you study early Christianity and you can see the WHOLE story, not just Paul's bullshit gentile recruiting scam.
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