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Old 09-30-2012, 12:29 AM   #46
WockaVodka
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Default Re: #51 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacks3
peak/prime T-Mac is a flat-out better player than many of these guys. how does he not make the top 50?
Because a career goes beyond peak.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:37 AM   #47
Fudge
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Default Re: #51 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by WockaVodka
Because a career goes beyond peak.
And a human life goes beyond ISH... Post on your StateOfMind account. Like you really believe we dont know it's you, RG?

But this is correct. Otherwise, guys like English and Dantley would have been voted in already.
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Old 09-30-2012, 12:40 AM   #48
Heavincent
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Default Re: #51 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fudge
And a human life goes beyond ISH... Post on your StateOfMind account. Like you really believe we dont know it's you, RG?

But this is correct. Otherwise, guys like English and Dantley would have been voted in already.

Shit, another RG account?

I can't keep up.
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Old 09-30-2012, 01:07 AM   #49
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Default Re: #51 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacks3
peak/prime T-Mac is a flat-out better player than many of these guys. how does he not make the top 50?
Because he's not a top 50 player of all-time.

lol at Tmac making a top 50 list. This is the top 50 greatest players of all-time list, not the top 50 players that could never make it past the 1st round list.

Durant in 2012 was better than Tmac ever was. So if you want to complain about Tmac missing out, you should complain about KD missing out first.
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:58 AM   #50
Owl
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Default Re: #51 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

Quote:
Originally Posted by WillC
That's not true though.

Statistically, it's a toss-up. Tracy McGrady probably had the best single season while Grant Hill's around stats are very impressive. No doubt Chris Paul is excellent statistically too, but it's debatable that he's better than the aforementioned players. Meanwhile, in terms of accolades, I've just shown that all 4 players are remarkably similar in that regard.

I think maybe you were too young to remember Penny and Grant Hill back in the 1990s....
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...00#advanced::6
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...0#advanced::22
http://www.basketball-reference.com/...0#advanced::21

Paul is tops by every metric and and has (near enough) half as many again win shares as the next guy.
This despite being a point guard for whom it is generally harder to score highly in advanced stats.
e.g. Of the 165 seasons playing starter minutes with a PER above 25, only 16 have been been by pgs, less than half what you'd expect is distribution was even across the postions. http://www.basketball-reference.com/...=0#stats::none
Those 16 are
6 by Oscar Robertson
5 by Magic (4 if you donít count 81 in which he played 37 games)
3 by Chris Paul
1 by Nate Archibald
and
1 by Terrell Brandon

At a similar level for ws/48 .235 there have been 124 seasons. 17 of which are from pgs a higher proportion this time, but still (significantly) less than an even share. http://www.basketball-reference.com/...#s tats::none
4 Magic
3 Robertson
3 Paul
3 Stockton
2 Billups
1 Frazier
1 Brandon

Only Penny played the pg position and is at the same statistical disadvantage. And after a strong start, by seven years in, his career is so far behind Paul's it's in a different stratosphere.

I like all the players mentioned too, but Paul is getting to the halfway stage of his career with numbers that should land him in the top 25 all-time when he retires (and considerably better than Isiah's who is frequently placed in that range). Whether or not you believe he belongs at 50 right now (and I'd say he probably does) his career has been quantifiably better than the four players raised. His career total win shares are already way past Penny's and almost upon the other two guys in far fewer seasons.

Paul has also been a multi-year genuine MVP candidate which several people already selected haven't.

It's not too early for CP3, to wit
Cowens who has already gone, had 8 good years, Willis Reed had 7, Bill Walton had 2 (that were semi-close to full seasons).
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Old 09-30-2012, 02:23 PM   #51
BIZARRO
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Default Re: #51 NBA Player Of All-Time According to InsideHoops

"I don't think there has been or will be a better small forward than James, and I don't think people appreciated that. He was always such a quiet guy. But when he was in his prime, I can guarantee you, there wasn't anybody who could touch him." - Pat Riley

"James Worthy was one of the top 10 -- top five -- players in playoff history"- Magic Johnson


He has missed by one vote the last 2 rounds, but the more he slips, the more ridiculous it will get.

Big Game James and his NBA Finals MVP, NCAA Tournament MVP, 54.4% career playoff shooting percentage, years of leading the Showtime Lakers in playoff scoring.

If you ever saw him play, it has to be James Worthy.
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